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Kassadin will never be reworked properly until his ultimate is changed

SwapShadows·Aug 21, 2015·4 votes·1,222 views

I can't stress this enough, reworks don't need to keep identities if it's only hurting the champion. This is the exact reason why the Sion rework was a major success; it removed the anti-fun and toxic parts about him and revived him into a champion that can be number tweaked if he is either too strong or too weak. There is practically a 0% that Kass can be a viable and strong pick while not being oppressive with his current ultimate.

Pre-rework kass was basically the ideal midlaner, someone who could roam and snowball his lane effectively; better than any other midlaner. All his rework did was basically shift power and lower a lot of his damage, it didn't solve the problem of him constantly being nerfed because of his ultimate. Kassadin has been nerfed so many times to the point where he does no damage and he's just outright useless.

When champions like akali,shen,poppy etc get reworked they will need their ultimates to be severely changed for them to actually become balanced champions, there is a huge reason why they can't be viable and it's the toxic parts of their kits that holds them back.

23 Comments

greatwhite04Aug 21, 20152 votes

I think if he got his 10 damage back on his Q it would make a big difference.

If that isn't enough, I think riot is right that it's melee power that should be rewarded. (his W could get a buff)

For now I would definitely just add the 10 damage back to Q... I made a thread just before you actually ;)

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I think if he got his 10 damage back on his Q it would make a big difference.

If that isn't enough, I think riot is right that it's melee power that should be rewarded. (his W could get a buff)

For now I would definitely just add the 10 damage back to Q... I made a thread just before you actually ;)

He doesn't need any buffs, he needs a complete overhaul.

you can't buff and nerf a kit like his; there is no way to change his numbers without making him too strong or too weak.

greatwhite04Aug 21, 20151 votes

That's simply not true :S

I am diamond kass main, I don't think it gives me much credibility, but some atleast.

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That's simply not true :S

I am diamond kass main, I don't think it gives me much credibility, but some atleast.

It gives 0 credibility, it's literally a fact that his ultimate is the reason why he constantly gets nerfed and can't see any kind of competitive or solo que play.

Idk how many times I have to say that he will never be balanced unless his ult is changed, sorry bud.

Ask yourself this, is it worth having kassadin be strong for 1 patch then get completely nerfed the next one just because he was viable?

greatwhite04Aug 21, 20151 votes

That hasn't happened. He was nerfed hard, and is now slowly being buffed until balanced?

All of the last patches have been buffs, his ultimate was hard to balance before, so they changed it. A lot. It's a lot weaker now.

I really don't see your point as having any merit.

kJsAug 21, 20152 votes

I think his ultimate at this stage is alright.

It is the rest of his kit that should be designed to mainly be centred around his ultimate so that he plays smoothly and effectively. As well as put the power to his melee range abilities/low range abilities.

CrettAug 21, 20152 votes

If I remember correctly, A rioter stated his real problem is the anti-mage identity. If that was gone, he could embrace his dreams of hypermobility

ponkzyAug 21, 20151 votes

funny thing is kassadin is pretty strong against melees since his w hits like a truck early game and he can endless spam q

BlastumzAug 21, 20151 votes

Feels really good right now.

137434Aug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted} Pre-rework kass was basically the ideal midlaner, someone who could roam and snowball his lane effectively; better than any other midlaner. All his rework did was basically shift power and lower a lot of his damage, it didn't solve the problem of him constantly being nerfed because of his ultimate.

Pre-rework Kass was not "ideal" at all...an ideal midlaner is not one that is consistently picked or banned and contested. That indicates there is a problem with the champion, hence the constant nerfs and eventual rework (followed by more nerfs).

The problem with old Kass (and the rework when it first came out) was that Kass had too much mobility and damage. He is in a much better place right now, you don't see him that much because he is not blatantly OP like before, he just needs skills that synergize better with his ultimate and encourage him to get up in your face in melee range. Then he can have more damage, as the trade off is in order to use your damage you have to put yourself at risk.

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Pre-rework Kass was not "ideal" at all...an ideal midlaner is not one that is consistently picked or banned and contested. That indicates there is a problem with the champion, hence the constant nerfs and eventual rework (followed by more nerfs).

The problem with old Kass (and the rework when it first came out) was that Kass had too much mobility and damage. He is in a much better place right now, you don't see him that much because he is not blatantly OP like before, he just needs skills that synergize better with his ultimate and encourage him to get up in your face in melee range. Then he can have more damage, as the trade off is in order to use your damage you have to put yourself at risk.

I can't comprehend how that makes any form of sense. He was pick/banned for a reason and thats because he was ridiculously good.

Kass was the ideal midlaner, the role of a midlaner is to snowball their lane while roaming since they have the best spot on the map which gives them easy access to the enemy jungler,top,bot.

Heres the problem with being the ideal champion for a role, you crowd out every other pick hence why weaknesses exist.

137434Aug 21, 20151 votes

But pre-rework Kass did not have any clear weaknesses, other than just taking it easy pre-6. He wasn't just ridiculously good, he was completely OP. You can make a champion that is perfect for any role, but that doesn't mean it is healthy. The rework shifted power and nerfed his damage because Riot was trying to preserve his ultimate because his identity is suppose to be hyper mobility anti-mage, not to be the "ideal" mid laner.

Kass's ultimate is not inherently toxic like Poppy's (I disagree about Akali and especially Shen ult being toxic, and even Riot has admitted Shen's ultimate will fundamentally be the same in his eventually rework). It has clear weaknesses such as the ramping mana costs and the fact that if you are using it to escape you are sacrificing damage, and none of the clarity and thematic issues that Poppy's suffers from. The problem is Kass's kit, especially his old one with the 2.5s silence, is just not a healthy kit to go along with the ult. It just encourages poke, blink in, burst, blink out- when his pattern should be blink in, sustain (not burst) damage, blink out/blink to stick to opponents running away.

gaby1bestAug 21, 20151 votes

Imagine the butthurt kassadin mains raging about 'but muh ult'.

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20151 votes

there's people saying "oh he'll be good if he gets those nerfs reverted"

no he won't, he will never be in a healthy spot until that ultimate is gone, if he's good then he's getting nerfed until he isn't.

LajneenAug 21, 20151 votes

Old Kassadin was fine. The only people who had a ''problem'' with him were low elo scrubs.

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Old Kassadin was fine. The only people who had a ''problem'' with him were low elo scrubs.

explains almost a 100% pick/ban in every elo including LCS

LajneenAug 21, 20151 votes

Everyone in high elo knew how to deal with Kassadin, picking him would result in getting stomped most of the time. Low elo scrubs are mindless bandwagoners, they don't even know why they ban the champions they ban, they're incapable of thinking for themselves.

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Everyone in high elo knew how to deal with Kassadin, picking him would result in getting stomped most of the time. Low elo scrubs are mindless bandwagoners, they don't even know why they ban the champions they ban, they're incapable of thinking for themselves.

are you ignorant?

he had one of the highest pick/bans for a long time in every single ELO including pro scene

LajneenAug 21, 20151 votes

Kassadin has never had a high pick rate. It's obvious that you didn't play back when he was in his prime. Stop talking.

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Kassadin has never had a high pick rate. It's obvious that you didn't play back when he was in his prime. Stop talking.

He was almost always picked if he wasn't banned.

I don't see how you can deny stats that's pretty weird.

TengrichanAug 21, 20151 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/j45v3Nvl-kassadin-and-his-problems-new-kit-concepts

I think there are some ideas that could work for him in my thread.Leave a comment if you have some more.

BeoridasAug 21, 20151 votes

here is the things few people knew. Kassadin was fine during season 2. When Warmog was 1.2k health, Force of nature was there, when the bruisers were kings and assassins werent nerfed.

He has tanks to keep him in line, he was out of meta--most assassins could do his job without the early game hassle etc...

Did you know his mobility is currently not the best until 16 in which only one champion can challenge? fizz with CD.

Also, his ult, altho had better range before, had much longer CD aswell. The difference is the cost to get to the same place since new kass needs more Riftwalk for the same distance.

Meta does that to champs. Not about the identity itself. I have read what few rioters said: the issue with him was that because he shared both an assassin and anti mage. Very unique but problematic theme. I tend to agree. But i also believe in champ eco-system where roles keep each other in line. Which was lost after season 2.

SwapShadowsAug 23, 20151 votes

bump

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