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RIOT: Talon treated unfairly by "balance team"

Radiant Wukong··2 votes·864 views

Every melee assassin except Talon has a way to engage/gap close/get on top of ranged mages/marksman like Ahri Anivia Anivia Brand Kassadin Karma Lux Morgana Orianna Syndra Taliyah TwistedFate Veigar Velkoz Viktor Xerath Ziggs Zyra Ashe Caitlyn Ezreal Jhin Jinx Sivir Varus

First, we note that Talon's only engage is a 550 unit dash

Akali 700 unit dash (potentially 1670 units by using R on caster minion, W towards target champion then R to target champion) Ekko 650 unit dash/blink, not only can he use his dash to dodge skillshots, but his blink allows on target skillshots to whiff completely Fizz 800 untargetable jump Irelia 650 unit dash Jax 700 unit leap Kassadin 500 unit blink usable every 1.5 seconds Katarina 725 unit dash (potentially 1450 if Q used on caster minion 1st, E to dagger, E to target champion) Khazix 700 unit leap (900 unit leap if evolved) LeeSin 1000 unit dash (skill shot, has to land) MasterYi 600 unit untargetable/blink Nocturne 4000 unit dash Pantheon 600 unit leap & 5500 unit leap (can be combined for 6100 unit double leap) Rengar 725 unit leap Riven 1075 units using 4 dashes in quick succession Tryndamere 650 unit dash Vi 725 unit dash & 800 unit dash (can be combined for 1525 unit double dash) XinZhao 650 unit dash Yasuo 1200 blink Zed 650 unit blink & 625 unit blink (can be combined for 1275 unit double blink)

Lastly, we note again that Talon's gap closer is a 550 unit dash.

The minimal appears to be 650 units, why is Talon the exception? I'm even ok with it being a dash, but why is it not 650 units?

Icing on the cake Ahri Leblanc Nidalee have better "gap closers/space creators" than Talon as well.

Where is the balance?

24 Comments

Moooose36 votes

You're right. Talon is obviously seriously suffering from mobility. Ignoring the fact he can jump over any wall in the game and makes up for his low dash range with invisibility.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Invisibility... is that feature in the same ability that launches out 15 blades in a circle around where he's standing on cast, then after 2.5 seconds guide you to his location?

Moooose32 votes

The one where the blades don't show in fog of war, which would be near any wall in the entire jungle.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

His blades can clearly be seen from the FOW. I pressed R at fox camp and the mid laner left my turret because she saw the blades.

Moooose31 votes

Oh my bad. But still there's no way in hell you can possibly have a valid argument for talon getting the short end of the stick mobility-wise. It is different, sure, but if you're not a braindead ape like half of league, it's busted.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

But he did, he even has less base movement speed now.

Moooose31 votes

[deleted]

Radiant Wukong1 votes

So why would I have post comparing current Talon to S2 Talon back when he had damage amplification, silence and blink at 650.

If I was that new to this game, I wouldn't be complain about the current state of Talon because it's the only Talon I'd have ever known.

The audacity you have to imply someone has special needs when you draw an irrelevant conclusion when there was never any room for misinterpretation on that.

My original account name was "Talon Wukong" This account name was "Talon Wukong" before the assassin update, but I dropped my love the name Talon afterwards because I loved Talon for his laning power, which he clearly lacks now.

Am I saying bring back his blink, silence or damage amplifier... not at all. But 100 unit nerf to his gap closer is overkill and makes him unviable in lane.

In his current state, his goal is to max W, push wave, then roam. That doesn't work when you lane opponent has just as much wave clear as you and there's no way for you to engage them. Ahri Lux Morgana Veigar .

So I roam to attempt to pick up a kill/assist in a different lane while sacrificing mid lane turret and losing out on cs while walking to top/bottom?

Moooose31 votes

You're picking a niche AD assassin that strives off of roaming, with a parkour e, and think he's going to be good against every lane opponent? Don't pick him against people with waveclear if you have trouble with those matchups. Not every champ has to go even/favored in lane against every matchup.

And I never said you were new to the gmae, just horrible. Having a 40% winrate in silver 5 takes some serious dedication.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Thats my problem. RIOT made him "niche" when he was perfectly fine before.

Moooose32 votes

What's wrong with niche champs? They gave him a champion identity instead of "worse zed"

forist1 votes

Both the blades and the sound can be seen from fow. It's not the same as an ability like sion's decimating smash, where you can't see the reticle or animation. Also, casting assassin's path will reactivate shadow assault and cancel talon's stelath.

420 grams2 votes

You're not counting his e jumps nor his ms boost in ult

Eedat2 votes

Every melee assassin except has a way to engage/gap close/get on top of ranged mages/marksman

You need to use the terrain. Talon has a ton of mobility

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Invite me to a practice match and show me how to use the terrain mid/top please.

Moooose31 votes

ROAM. You moron.

Unreformed Shaco2 votes

Talon has invisible ultimate with high movespeed modifier, and can also traverse an unlimited number of walls.

Nahui2 votes

He has the cheapest, highest mobility in the game. It's only fair he suffers slightly in the ranged department.

Also you're overplaying it. Talon can easily reach any of those champions any time he chooses to. Just because their initial skills out range him doesn't mean he's at a loss of fighting them.

Vapor Wave Vibes2 votes

It's true that talons q should have a longer range because if you know what side of the map talon is on you're never going to stand on that side. A lot of the comments seem to want to consider talon going over a wall than q, but it's just such a short range that even if the person was standing in the middle you'd be running at them and couldn't q. Really it should be a 600 range over a 550 to match up more with his w into q combo.

I accidently voted YES in the polls. Also it would be easier to make a thread about decreasing the time on talons W since that is an extremely slow ability for an assassin that is supposed to insta kill champs and is way more of a disadvantage to his kit than the q range.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Simple people keep bringing up his ability to go over walls, how the fuck does that help him during laning phase and how it is used as a gap closer?

MS isn't a gap closing feature unless you're a juggernaut, he only goes invivisble for 2.5 seconds and any human in the world can see those blades scatter and know to retreat to turret.

Mecha MaIphite2 votes

Kass and Akali don't get their mobility until 6. How does that help them during lane?

Besides, Talon is supposed to roam more; his E gets you across the map and lets you gank at different angles. Also, his level 2 cheese is already strong; adding another 100 units to his Q dash would make it way too easy to pull off.

Nightingales Sky1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3n35K5b0,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-06-19T01:22:27.444+0000)

Simple people keep bringing up his ability to go over walls, how the fuck does that help him during laning phase and how it is used as a gap closer?

MS isn't a gap closing feature unless you're a juggernaut, he only goes invivisble for 2.5 seconds and any human in the world can see those blades scatter and know to retreat to turret.

Yes, MS, is a gap closer, when combined with invisibility and parkour. He is literally the only champion in the game who plays like a hit and run assassin. Literally. Ugh, I'm getting tired of seeing these threads.

"Talon doesn't have a large enough gap closer. He needs a blink. He need to be able jump behind anyone. Everyone counters him. You can see his dash a mile away...."

Really...? I'm just annoyed at it. Every talon I have faced has been able to rack up 20+ kills in the match. And, it was, all of our fault! We were alone in the jungle and BAM Talon jumps a wall, pops combo, ultimate, then dips, because if we didn't insta-die then we bled to death.

Talons is great where he is.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

So... Talon is the new Kha'zix? [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Calabok1 votes

oh man Talon can barely move. he really needs even MORE MOBILITY to compensate. Maybe even give him a spot for another speed boots that combine and enhance his NON MOBILITY status

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