When you match a silver play against a platinum player, chances are, the silver dude's teammates are going to flame the living hell out of him.
But is it really anybody's fault though? Nope. It's the system that failed the player.
True Garen20 votesNO JOKE!
I blame Riot for setting up a lot of the toxicity.
If you're in a match with a player 200 MMR above you, then that should be a consideration for any penalty. (But the more experienced players, should also be more patient.)
Call me Matke2 votesThats true...You get teammate that has lose streak(He lost 5 games in a row)and I got 8 games winstreak,why do i get matched with him?What did I do wrong,am I expected not to flame him for playing bad?This season ranked is bs...Sorry RIOT but first fix matchmaking then give bans...Thanks!
ßluę2 votesMismatched MMR should be the issue not loss streaks. The truth is that you're expected not to flame anyone as per the summoner's code. I can agree that mismatched MMR should be fixed but if you flame someone who has similar MMR to you (even with a 10 game loss streak) for playing bad that's kind of your problem. If you're both silver for example, you're on the same boat. If your teammate is silver and you're plat then I can say the system failed you. What you're saying is that if both of you are silver and one guy has a 10 game loss streak, you're both still similar MMR or else he would be in lower silver-bronze. That case is just the luck of the draw.
Kai Guy5 votesPlease show the pic for a silver in a Plat match.
True Garen18 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-24T21:28:04.904+0000)
Please show the pic for a silver in a Plat match.
You can get punished for mouthing off in a normal, too, you know.
Kai Guy15 votesAny Player who is going to flame some one in normal over the other players rank deserves any punishment they get. Its just trash behavior.
That being said normal are lower quality matches by design. They will have more mismatches and more low quality games. Citing MM in Normals as an issue is silly because its inherently not made to be as competitive. Most the changes folks would want/suggest to improve normal make it closer in functionality to the ranked ques.
I do think even in ranked its possible to see a plat and silver player in the same game. Silver 1 with Gold 3 MMR is possible, I had that on my alt this season when I was running some MMR and Support impact tests. Had I qued with a G1 with Plat MMR I think its entirely reasonable to see a game where you have a team of Gold and the silver vs a team with gold and plats.
Largely because Division 4 demotion protection is so god dam massive you can sink 2 full divisions with out it impacting your rank. Its not very difficult to look at match averages for players in their recent games to see if they do or don't belong in a match thou.
So... Yea. Please show a Pick for the Silver in a Plat match. I expect most of them will be Plat4 and silver1 in a Gold average match if you look at it, with the occasional WTF duo impact. Open to being wrong if some one can provide proof.
Tr4shB4NSYST3M4 votesWhat are your thoughts about removing both Demotion protection and promotion series?
True Garen6 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-24T22:09:46.973+0000)
Any Player who is going to flame some one in normal over the other players rank deserves any punishment they get. Its just trash behavior.
That being said normal are lower quality matches by design. They will have more mismatches and more low quality games. Citing MM in Normals as an issue is silly because its inherently not made to be as competitive. Most the changes folks would want/suggest to improve normal make it closer in functionality to the ranked ques.
I do think even in ranked its possible to see a plat and silver player in the same game. Silver 1 with Gold 3 MMR is possible, I had that on my alt this season when I was running some MMR and Support impact tests. Had I qued with a G1 with Plat MMR I think its entirely reasonable to see a game where you have a team of Gold and the silver vs a team with gold and plats.
Largely because Division 4 demotion protection is so god dam massive you can sink 2 full divisions with out it impacting your rank. Its not very difficult to look at match averages for players in their recent games to see if they do or don't belong in a match thou.
So... Yea. Please show a Pick for the Silver in a Plat match. I expect most of them will be Plat4 and silver1 in a Gold average match if you look at it, with the occasional WTF duo impact. Open to being wrong if some one can provide proof.
It's a lot of people who play this game, including millions of low MMR players who just play normals. Riot institutes MMR in norms, largely because of this problem - it only take one player a couple hundred points over the other 9 to dominate and ruin everybody's game. And then , besides, the unlucky fellow who laned against that one will get flamed forever.
Riot does not apply any different standards (that I can see ) for behaviour in norms vs ranked games.
This is also one of the big problems with smurfing that people complain about. A lot of toxicity is propitiated by smurfs. People speak and behave irrationally when confronted with things that don't make sense, and when in a match (normal or ranked), there is a presumption that all players are of similar ability. (So, subconsciously, a player KNOWS that what he is seeing shouldn't be happenning... it's not fair to judge people harshly for how they act in these circumstances.)
Having said that... I play a lot of norms. I check the mmr according to the available tools in most of the games. I have to say, it's considerably improved. In the vast majority of soloq matches, all of the players are pretty close. Lately.
Kai Guy3 votesYea a standard 1C in Elo is like 3 to 1 odds. It gets increasingly brutal after that. 1/2 C tends to be fairly solid games as the weakest player sill has over 40% odds to beat their best player, but its not exactly fair in that the best player just has to preform well to crush the weaker one even if that guys doing his dam best. C in Elo is 200 points.
What riot uses may or may not be the same but as its all arbitrary values the exact points don't matter at all so much as what they represent in the system. Why even if folks can see MMR if you don't know what relevance its still difficult to judge fairness.
I am a huge fan of stricter behavior systems. Soft inting being a bit to common for my tastes with folks running to clear camps and cs away from teammates as they just look to avoid the leave buster ban after they give up.
Its a game, it should be fun. You should be a decent sport because if you do not have folks to play with and vs you don't have a fucking game to play.
Smurfs who shit talk their rank are clearly stuck. just laugh at them for not being higher then what ever rank they claim if you want to piss them off.
The beef I have with Smurfs its they NEED to lose to sink. Folks who want to make a bronze or iron smurf are actively looking to force their teammates to lose.
Thing is players attribute a lot of gameplay to MM, when some times its just gameplay. It can be a fair match and still a terrible game experience. Some one with a bad matchup who only ever does a Feast or famine playstyle is going to feed or get feed. MM will never solve this players impact. It will never feel good. They will crush some one, who then looks weak. Or they will get crushed, and then look weak.
So many "damage" meta comps are garbage atm because they don't think about composition at all. Its a team game, Balanced partys do better.
Honestly, I feel that this kind of game really is not meant to be played alone. I wish Riot stepped up their club system so that premade 5s became more common. Its a lot more fun.
Subdue3 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-24T21:46:44.286+0000)
You can get punished for mouthing off in a normal, too, you know.
Do you feel that Platinum players should not be able to play games with their Silver friends?
True Garen4 votesDo you feel that Platinum players should not be able to play games with their Silver friends?
When I'm being honest with myself, then I have to say, in fairness, they shouldn't. It's a kind of smurfing.
The MMR system TRIES to match such premades with equivalent premades, and often succeeds.
They could just go play customs. At least in customs, you can see clearly on the board, the rank of all of the players. I think that this is partly the reason why. When you know going in, that your enemy is a significantly higher rank, which is very likely to happen in customs, since there is no MMR, then the potential for toxic outcome is partly obviated.
This is another reason why I check these things before a match. If I can say so-and-so is smurfing in this match, then maybe teammates will be less likely to curse at the unfortunate one.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-10-25T06:13:21.264+0000)
When I'm being honest with myself, then I have to say, in fairness, they shouldn't. It's a kind of smurfing.
The MMR system TRIES to match such premades with equivalent premades, and often succeeds.
They could just go play customs. At least in customs, you can see clearly on the board, the rank of all of the players. I think that this is partly the reason why. When you know going in, that your enemy is a significantly higher rank, which is very likely to happen in customs, since there is no MMR, then the potential for toxic outcome is partly obviated.
This is another reason why I check these things before a match. If I can say so-and-so is smurfing in this match, then may teammates will be less likely to curse at the unfortunate one.
So, even though there's already a queue which gates players from playing with friends too far above or below their own rank, you feel that friends of different ranks shouldn't be able to play together in normal either. In fact, they should have to wait until they can string together a group of 10 players to play in customs AND not benefit from any IP gains, not even FWOTD.
Why do you feel that players looking for an even game can't go to ranked instead of normals to find it?
True Garen1 votesSo, even though there's already a queue which gates players from playing with friends too far above or below their own rank, you feel that friends of different ranks shouldn't be able to play together in normal either. In fact, they should have to wait until they can string together a group of 10 players to play in customs AND not benefit from any IP gains, not even FWOTD.
Why do you feel that players looking for an even game can't go to ranked instead of normals to find it?
First of all, you can play customs all b y yourself. Just wander the customs list and enter a game. If you start a customs game, and it's not closed, you will shortly find yourself meeting all kinds of players, including many very high MMR players who never play norms, only customs, presumably, partly for the reasons that I have outlined. (I met a few Challengers this way, when I was new, and some of them were even helpful.)
Norms are just as important to the non-ranked low-level players who play them, as ranked games are to others.
When the plat teams up wth his four silver friends, the outcome of the game is a foregone conclusion. It's just not fun and those enemies would probably have opted not to play such a match. Customs are much more honest, and from the design, it seems like this was the original intention.
He could also go play flex, too.
More experienced players will take the match in good humour... so, if a diamond teams up with a bunch of plats or golds, it's not quite as bad. Very low MMR players, unranked players, will feel like they were hit by a truck, they will feel taken advantage of, and all kinds of toxicity can erupt which... Riot is largely responsible for allowing such matches to occur.
The alternative would be do nakedly, boldly, advertise the smurfs higher rank / mmr at the start of the match (as in customs), so at least the enemy team could see that it was a mismatch from the start, and calm down. (No shame in getting beat up by a Challenger, I suppose.) Besides, I think that if this were done, high MMR players would start to use more discretion about doing this.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-25T16:41:07.815+0000)
First of all, you can play customs all b y yourself. Just wander the customs list and enter a game. If you start a customs game, and it's not closed, you will shortly find yourself meeting all kinds of players, including many very high MMR players who never play norms, only customs, presumably, partly for the reasons that I have outlined. (I met a few Challengers this way, when I was new, and some of them were even helpful.)
Norms are just as important to the non-ranked low-level players who play them, as ranked games are to others.
When the plat teams up wth his four silver friends, the outcome of the game is a foregone conclusion. It's just not fun and those enemies would probably have opted not to play such a match. Customs are much more honest, and from the design, it seems like this was the original intention.
He could also go play flex, too.
More experienced players will take the match in good humour... so, if a diamond teams up with a bunch of plats or golds, it's not quite as bad. Very low MMR players, unranked players, will feel like they were hit by a truck, they will feel taken advantage of, and all kinds of toxicity can erupt which... Riot is largely responsible for allowing such matches to occur.
The alternative would be do nakedly, boldly, advertise the smurfs higher rank / mmr at the start of the match (as in customs), so at least the enemy team could see that it was a mismatch from the start, and calm down. (No shame in getting beat up by a Challenger, I suppose.) Besides, I think that if this were done, high MMR players would start to use more discretion about doing this.
First of all, low level players, unless the system has identified them as smurfs, have newbie protection. They don't get matched with veterans unless they're queued with veterans, so the scenario of low level players getting thrown into these matches is not a realistic.
Also, you're making some pretty big assumptions here. For one, if a Platinum player queues up with 4 silver players, the game will end up in low gold due to the rank discrepancy and the MMR boost of a premade. And, of course, this is assuming that the MMRs of all players in Ranked matches their MMRs in Normal. If it doesn't, which is the case for many players including myself, then it means absolutely nothing. I may be Platinum in Ranked where I play 95% of the time in a single role (jungler) and most of the time a single champion (Rammus), but in Normals I'll mess around and play different champions in different roles. Add to this that I got to level 30 and started playing Ranked immediately, thus doing most of my learning in Ranked, and the result is that my Normal MMR is much lower than my Ranked MMR, but you wouldn't know this just by looking at op.gg. All that you'd see is that I'm a Platinum player in your Silver Normal game. And then, there are people who are in the exact opposite position, in that they never play Ranked but have thousands upon thousands of games in Normals, and have a much higher MMR than what you might expect of someone who is "unranked."
Furthermore, Normal matchmaking does try to line up MMRs as much as possible. When something like a Diamond player and a Bronze player queue up together, you don't end up with 5 Bronze against 4 Bronze and a Diamond. Either matchmaking finds a similar premade, or you end up with something like a Diamond, a Bronze, and 3 Golds against some mixture of Golds and Platinums, again a reference to their normal MMRs, not their ranked MMRs, so the situation where you have a Diamond player beating up on Bronze players simply doesn't happen.
Finally, if Riot were to prevent players from playing with their friends in normal games due to their ranks, this would only be more incentive to smurf. After all, in custom games you don't earn any rewards anyway.
True Garen2 votesFirst of all, low level players, unless the system has identified them as smurfs, have newbie protection. They don't get matched with veterans unless they're queued with veterans, so the scenario of low level players getting thrown into these matches is not a realistic.
The topic of the discussion is situations where the system fails.
Also, you're making some pretty big assumptions here. For one, if a Platinum player queues up with 4 silver players, the game will end up in low gold due to the rank discrepancy and the MMR boost of a premade. And, of course, this is assuming that the MMRs of all players in Ranked matches their MMRs in Normal. If it doesn't, which is the case for many players including myself, then it means absolutely nothing. I may be Platinum in Ranked where I play 95% of the time in a single role (jungler) and most of the time a single champion (Rammus), but in Normals I'll mess around and play different champions in different roles. Add to this that I got to level 30 and started playing Ranked immediately, thus doing most of my learning in Ranked, and the result is that my Normal MMR is much lower than my Ranked MMR, but you wouldn't know this just by looking at op.gg. All that you'd see is that I'm a Platinum player in your Silver Normal game. And then, there are people who are in the exact opposite position, in that they never play Ranked but have thousands upon thousands of games in Normals, and have a much higher MMR than what you might expect of someone who is "unranked."
Furthermore, Normal matchmaking does try to line up MMRs as much as possible. When something like a Diamond player and a Bronze player queue up together, you don't end up with 5 Bronze against 4 Bronze and a Diamond. Either matchmaking finds a similar premade, or you end up with something like a Diamond, a Bronze, and 3 Golds against some mixture of Golds and Platinums, again a reference to their normal MMRs, not their ranked MMRs, so the situation where you have a Diamond player beating up on Bronze players simply doesn't happen.
I mentioned this also. Sometimes it succeeds impressively.
That your normal MMR is artificially low is NOT A GOOD THING. It means that you can even be smurfing in solo norms. Ir means that the game isn't even going to TRY to adjust the enemy MMR to accommodate for the Plat. This is a big part of what OP is complaining about. That's a failure.
There are high MMR accounts that I can show you, where the guy suddenly starts playing norms. He dominates game after game until his normal MMR finally catches up, maybe 100 matches. Then he goes back to ranked. Three months later, his normal MMR has reset, the account goes on another spree. What are the odds that the same person is maybe doing the same thing on several other accounts in rotation? (Because it's a pattern.)
How many people meanwhile got banned, because they were exasperated, that the IRON IV equivalent player that he laned against inexplicably fed his $%^ off? No excuse for the toxicity... but it's also kind of a setup. (How many people didn't actually get banned, but the poor shmoe still felt like absolute crap, not realizing that he faced somebody with 4x his MMR?)
What do you think about a Plat player who queues up with silvers so that he can carry them match after match?
Finally, if Riot were to prevent players from playing with their friends in normal games due to their ranks, this would only be more incentive to smurf. After all, in custom games you don't earn any rewards anyway.
The system is generally improving. Someday smurfing won't be an issue.
Meanwhile, consider that just because somebody wanted to play with his friend, he caused untold grief for 5 enemies, match after match.
So, it's nice that he wants to have fun, but it's at the expense of a bunch of other people who are much less experienced. It amounts to bullying.
I don't think that there are too many life situations that would place the camaraderie of an individual above the peace of mind of 5 strangers.
Can you see how this is really unfair?
"Smurf protection" (not even sure exactly what mechanic you are referring to) will fail because it's a premade. Yes, low-level players ALSO like to make premades. The odds of them facing smurfs is very high when they do this, but they don't know any better.
A nice initiative would at least be to reveal the rank of all players (current and highest past) so that at least the new player would know that he's getting trounced by somebody with double or triple his MMR. I have a hunch, that this would also tend to cut down on higher MMR players putting themselves into this situation.
Flex and Customs are the most appropriate places for mixed premades.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-26T01:14:27.897+0000)
Snip.
First of all, I didn't say my MMR was artificially low. The MMRs of different queues are separate, and for good reason. The competitive environment in different queues is not the same. The same MMR which would require Gold level skill in ranked might only require Silver level skill in Normal, if only for the simple reason that a lot of people don't treat Normals as seriously. People who intentionally lose matches so as to keep their MMRs low so they can stomp on weaker players are breaking the rules, and if your suggestion was for better detection for this, I'd wholeheartedly agree.
Second of all, there is no normal MMR reset. It doesn't even soft reset with the seasons. So I don't know what the heck you're talking about there.
Third, if a new player chooses the queue with higher level players, they don't get to complain that they're matched against someone better than they are. That's just ridiculous. It's a choice they are making to do that. I know this because I joined LoL later than my friends did, so when I started off, they were all already level 30 (back when that was the cap). So my first experience with LoL was playing with (and against) much better players. That was a choice I made.
Finally, you allude to the existence of failures in the matchmaking system. Do you have any evidence of real new players (not smurfs) who queued on their own getting matched with with Diamond players? Or even Platinum players?
With that, I'll leave you one last thought. Since there is already a queue where you are prevented from grouping with people too far from your rank, and there's a queue where you can group with anyone you want, why don't these players you're trying to protect go play ranked? Or, why don't they take your suggestion and go play custom games?
True Garen1 votesFirst of all, I didn't say my MMR was artificially low. The MMRs of different queues are separate, and for good reason. The competitive environment in different queues is not the same. The same MMR which would require Gold level skill in ranked might only require Silver level skill in Normal, if only for the simple reason that a lot of people don't treat Normals as seriously. People who intentionally lose matches so as to keep their MMRs low so they can stomp on weaker players are breaking the rules, and if your suggestion was for better detection for this, I'd wholeheartedly agree.
Second of all, there is no normal MMR reset. It doesn't even soft reset with the seasons. So I don't know what the heck you're talking about there.
Third, if a new player chooses the queue with higher level players, they don't get to complain that they're matched against someone better than they are. That's just ridiculous. It's a choice they are making to do that. I know this because I joined LoL later than my friends did, so when I started off, they were all already level 30 (back when that was the cap). So my first experience with LoL was playing with (and against) much better players. That was a choice I made.
Finally, you allude to the existence of failures in the matchmaking system. Do you have any evidence of real new players (not smurfs) who queued on their own getting matched with with Diamond players? Or even Platinum players?
With that, I'll leave you one last thought. Since there is already a queue where you are prevented from grouping with people too far from your rank, and there's a queue where you can group with anyone you want, why don't these players you're trying to protect go play ranked? Or, why don't they take your suggestion and go play custom games?
Because they are the young, the small, and the weak. Exactly what you said. Ranked is for the big boys.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-26T22:51:52.422+0000)
Because they are the young, the small, and the weak. Exactly what you said. Ranked is for the big boys.
Then they should go play customs, or bots.
True Garen1 votesThen they should go play customs, or bots.
It's pretty telling, to me, that you are resistant to the idea of having rank obviously displayed in normals game, similar to how it is revealed in customs.
True Garen1 votesSecond of all, there is no normal MMR reset. It doesn't even soft reset with the seasons. So I don't know what the heck you're talking about there.
This is incorrect. Leave an account alone for 2-3 months (or rather, leave normal queue alone) and the normal MMR will reset. I can show this to you.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-26T22:53:03.546+0000)
This is incorrect. Leave an account alone for 2-3 months (or rather, leave normal queue alone) and the normal MMR will reset. I can show this to you.
This absolutely does not happen. There is no reset of MMR in normal. Heck, there's not even a reset of MMR below Diamond in ranked.
True Garen1 votesThis absolutely does not happen. There is no reset of MMR in normal. Heck, there's not even a reset of MMR below Diamond in ranked.
You are mistaken. You may test this for yourself. If you friend me, then I can show you histories.
True Garen1 votesFinally, you allude to the existence of failures in the matchmaking system. Do you have any evidence of real new players (not smurfs) who queued on their own getting matched with with Diamond players? Or even Platinum players?
Absolutely, and you yourself know that this can happen. Because the Diamond account that doesn't play normals has base normal MMR.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2019-10-26T22:56:05.737+0000)
Absolutely, and you yourself know that this can happen. Because the Diamond account that doesn't play normals has base normal MMR.
This is not a failure of matchmaking. And, at the very least a Diamond player's account is level 30, which means it will not be matched with new players regardless of MMR unless the new player is queued with level 30s.
True Garen1 votesThis is not a failure of matchmaking. And, at the very least a Diamond player's account is level 30, which means it will not be matched with new players regardless of MMR unless the new player is queued with level 30s.
You consider a lvl 30 player to be no longer new? Especially against a Diamond?
Dude.
I don't want to get into the ring with Mike Tyson. An Iron player shouldn't be made to lane against a Plat. Search your conscience.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=000000000001000000000000000000000000000300000000,timestamp=2019-10-27T01:45:43.283+0000)
You consider a lvl 30 player to be no longer new? Especially against a Diamond?
Dude.
I don't want to get into the ring with Mike Tyson. An Iron player shouldn't be made to lane against a Plat. Search your conscience.
A level 30 player has about 200 games under his belt. He's not a new player. In fact, on average, he's a Silver 2 or Silver 3 player. And like I said, if a player wants to have the people they play with gated by MMR, they can either hop into ranked where it is gated, or they can play custom games.
And as for MMR resets in normals for inactivity, there is no such thing. Only Ranked MMR is ever reset, and even then it's only a soft reset, and only at the end of seasons. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to reset normal MMR, and I am 100% certain you have no documentation from Riot that such a thing occurs.
True Garen1 votesA level 30 player has about 200 games under his belt. He's not a new player. In fact, on average, he's a Silver 2 or Silver 3 player. And like I said, if a player wants to have the people they play with gated by MMR, they can either hop into ranked where it is gated, or they can play custom games.
You're being silly.
And as for MMR resets in normals for inactivity, there is no such thing. Only Ranked MMR is ever reset, and even then it's only a soft reset, and only at the end of seasons. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to reset normal MMR, and I am 100% certain you have no documentation from Riot that such a thing occurs.
You're misinformed, and you've never tried what I told you, so you just insist on believe a false idea without testing it. It's a simple experiment. And besides, as I have said, it can be observed anytime. Don't tell me that black is white. (And yes, actually, I've had discussions with Riot Support about it; they know that this happens.) (Never having attempted to observe the phenomenon, there is no way that you could possibly be %100 sure. I, on the other hand have seen it, and continue to see it, with my own eyes.)
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000000000030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-27T12:13:35.245+0000)
You're being silly.
You're misinformed, and you've never tried what I told you, so you just insist on believe a false idea without testing it. It's a simple experiment. And besides, as I have said, it can be observed anytime. Don't tell me that black is white. (And yes, actually, I've had discussions with Riot Support about it; they know that this happens.) (Never having attempted to observe the phenomenon, there is no way that you could possibly be %100 sure. I, on the other hand have seen it, and continue to see it, with my own eyes.)
Here you go. I've asked Riot for you:
https://i.imgur.com/eEDmbEu.png
And as for displaying rank, I couldn't care one way or the other. It's not like you can't see that stuff already by going to 3rd party websites.
True Garen1 votesHere you go. I've asked Riot for you:
https://i.imgur.com/eEDmbEu.png
And as for displaying rank, I couldn't care one way or the other. It's not like you can't see that stuff already by going to 3rd party websites.
laugh I can show you more involved discussions, with more senior representatives, where we explore that it does happen. (It's also possible that he interpreted your query a bit narrowly.)
True Garen1 votesAnd as for displaying rank, I couldn't care one way or the other. It's not like you can't see that stuff already by going to 3rd party websites.
That's TRUE. Only the new players rarely check (and really most players rarely check). That would go, like %50 to fixing OP issue.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000000000030000000000000002,timestamp=2019-10-28T15:40:30.715+0000)
laugh I can show you more involved discussions, with more senior representatives, where we explore that it does happen. (It's also possible that he interpreted your query a bit narrowly.)
Sure, post it.
True Garen1 votesSure, post it.
It's not as impersonal as your pointed question. But friend me, and I'll share it with you.
Or else meet me back here in two months, with an account that you left alone for 60 days. See what kind of normal matches you land in.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000000000030000000000000005,timestamp=2019-10-29T18:39:30.425+0000)
It's not as impersonal as your pointed question. But friend me, and I'll share it with you.
Or else meet me back here in two months, with an account that you left alone for 60 days. See what kind of normal matches you land in.
What is personal about an inquiry as to how matchmaking works? I mean it's a pretty simple question. Does normal MMR reset or doesn't it? Seems to me like you're getting pretty dodgy.
True Garen1 votesWhat is personal about an inquiry as to how matchmaking works? I mean it's a pretty simple question. Does normal MMR reset or doesn't it? Seems to me like you're getting pretty dodgy.
I have it. I'll share it with anybody who friends me.
if you don't want to do that, then try Plan B.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000000000030000000000000007,timestamp=2019-10-30T22:22:28.354+0000)
I have it. I'll share it with anybody who friends me.
if you don't want to do that, then try Plan B.
Lol. So I've posted evidence from Riot support. You claim to have counter evidence, but you won't post it. No thanks, I've seen all I need to see. You've got nothing.
True Garen1 votesLol. So I've posted evidence from Riot support. You claim to have counter evidence, but you won't post it. No thanks, I've seen all I need to see. You've got nothing.
What difference would it make, anyway?
And why are you afraid to contact me directly?
And this is a matter that is within any player's ability to test personally. Why would you trust what anybody told you when you could see it for yourself, without too much trouble?
(Just because I don't post a scientific paper that I happen to be in possession of, referencing the blueness of the sky, does nothing to prevent you (or anybody else) from looking up and seeing for yourself.)
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000000000030000000000000009,timestamp=2019-10-31T00:55:46.328+0000)
What difference would it make, anyway?
And why are you afraid to contact me directly?
And this is a matter that is within any player's ability to test personally. Why would you trust what anybody told you when you could see it for yourself, without too much trouble?
(Just because I don't post a scientific paper that I happen to be in possession of, referencing the blueness of the sky, does nothing to prevent you (or anybody else) from looking up and seeing for yourself.)
Lol.
Look, you either have Riot stating it that normal MMR resets, or you don't. And if you had it, you'd have posted it, had your aha told you so moment, and we could move on. But you're not posting it because you don't have it, because it doesn't happen. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why Riot would reset normal MMR. Ranked MMR gets reset so that there is a semblance of a "fresh start" for each season, and each time it comes at the cost of crappy matchmaking as high elo players stomp silver and gold players and silver and gold players stomp iron players. There's no reason to inflict that kind of damage on normal matchmaking when normal doesn't even have seasons.
Let me tally that up for you:
So, no reason for it to happen, lots of reasons for it to not happen, and Riot confirmed it doesn't happen. But here you are with your mystery evidence that you can't share unless I friend you? Yea, no thanks. I don't need you to be sending me some virus infected file in PM. Anyone reading this can see you're full of it. If you've got something, post it. It's put up or shut up time.
True Garen1 votesLol.
Look, you either have Riot stating it that normal MMR resets, or you don't. And if you had it, you'd have posted it, had your aha told you so moment, and we could move on. But you're not posting it because you don't have it, because it doesn't happen. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why Riot would reset normal MMR. Ranked MMR gets reset so that there is a semblance of a "fresh start" for each season, and each time it comes at the cost of crappy matchmaking as high elo players stomp silver and gold players and silver and gold players stomp iron players. There's no reason to inflict that kind of damage on normal matchmaking when normal doesn't even have seasons.
Let me tally that up for you:
- There's no value add to resetting normal MMR.
- There is damage done to matchmaking by resetting normal MMR.
- Riot support has stated they don't reset normal MMR.
So, no reason for it to happen, lots of reasons for it to not happen, and Riot confirmed it doesn't happen. But here you are with your mystery evidence that you can't share unless I friend you? Yea, no thanks. I don't need you to be sending me some virus infected file in PM. Anyone reading this can see you're full of it. If you've got something, post it. It's put up or shut up time.
If you're asking if they actively reset it... then no.
It has been observed by myself, other players, and Riot employees, that an account that does not use a queue for sufficient time will lose its MMR. I don't know why it happens. I know that it happens. The effect is reproducible. The effect is observable. Until you actually perform the experiment and obtain a few negative results, there would be no reason for me, or anybody who is acquainted with this effect, to believe otherwise.
I'll be happy to share what I have with you, directly. (I have with others, so why not you?) Or you can just do the research yourself.
(Enough other people besides myself have noticed this, that I didn't mention it here with the consideration that I might have to prove the assertion. This has been established. But if you want me to light the way for you, then I'll do it in a direct communication.)
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000000000000003000000000000000b,timestamp=2019-10-31T03:26:52.081+0000)
If you're asking if they actively reset it... then no.
It has been observed by myself, other players, and Riot employees, that an account that does not use a queue for sufficient time will lose its MMR. I don't know why it happens. I know that it happens. The effect is reproducible. The effect is observable. Until you actually perform the experiment and obtain a few negative results, there would be no reason for me, or anybody who is acquainted with this effect, to believe otherwise.
I'll be happy to share what I have with you, directly. (I have with others, so why not you?) Or you can just do the research yourself.
(Enough other people besides myself have noticed this, that I didn't mention it here with the consideration that I might have to prove the assertion. This has been established. But if you want me to light the way for you, then I'll do it in a direct communication.)
Got it. So you're unable to post your evidence because no reason whatsoever. I'm done with this thread. Have a good day.
True Garen1 votesGot it. So you're unable to post your evidence because no reason whatsoever. I'm done with this thread. Have a good day.
laugh You're just afraid of what you will find, if you take my challenge.
True Garen1 votesGot it. So you're unable to post your evidence because no reason whatsoever. I'm done with this thread. Have a good day.
The recent slew of posts regarding sudden appearance of bots in matches of players with established MMR, would seem to lend some credence for what I stated. (I have seen some of the histories.) Apparently MMR was reset to some extent with pre-season. (But not for everybody, not in all queues. And this doesn't seem to be a regular annual thing.)
Nyarlathοtep1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-24T21:28:04.904+0000)
Please show the pic for a silver in a Plat match.
Not really a silver but close enough.
Skýcrow3 votesNot really a silver but close enough.
it's legit a unranked person? What has that to do with Silver. You do know mmr doesn't decrease if u don't play? if she was Plat 3 mmr end of pre season, she starts with plat 3 mmr. Doesn't matter if it's the first game. She won't start back at silver because that is exactly what would fuck up Low elo.
Ps: checked his profile he was gold 1 end of season (not pre-season incounted so maybe it got up), and duoed with his buddy, winning 4 out of 6 games. I don't see any problem. Gold 1 + duo punishment = plat 4 or maybe 3 depending how good his hidden mmr really was compared to visual rank
Nyarlathοtep1 votesit's legit a unranked person? What has that to do with Silver. You do know mmr doesn't decrease if u don't play? if she was Plat 3 mmr end of pre season, she starts with plat 3 mmr. Doesn't matter if it's the first game. She won't start back at silver because that is exactly what would fuck up Low elo.
Ps: checked his profile he was gold 1 end of season (not pre-season incounted so maybe it got up), and duoed with his buddy, winning 4 out of 6 games. I don't see any problem. Gold 1 + duo punishment = plat 4 or maybe 3 depending how good his hidden mmr really was compared to visual rank
Legit or not, all i see is a person not for plat in a plat game. Also plat 3 mmr? Are you kidding me? The lad at best is gold 1. I mean if had plat mmr she wouldnt be gold. Mmr goes up as you win and goes down as you lose . If your mmr is high it means that you win a lot. A lot of wins in ranked means higher tier. Also he was gold 2 not 1.
Also duo punishment? Am i missing something?
Kai Guy2 votesRiot adds extra MMR when you duo. To account for Synergy. Something like 1 + 1 = 3. The formula for Elo adjustment is Rn=Ro+K(W-We) We changes in response to probability odds off ratings and the Distribution Model used. That makes lower R players who win vs higher R players gain more R in chess, The specifics for how Riot generate the value are not shared, I would have assumed off team averages prior but now Riot has Positional MM so it might be in relation to your opponent (Don't confuse Positional MM with positional rank as that was scrapped.) K is uncertainty, it lowers off ladder position or # of games played. Its used so that folks don't share the same stakes in a match, if some unranked or low # games player is dramatically mismatched it gets them out of the MMR range faster and the impact they make is lower for folks with less risk on a games outcome.
End of the day titles are given really fast. all of 8 games to unlock. In MMR Elo systems part of the job is you need to find a players skill and it takes usually 10X more games then that to get a good value, personally I use 200 as a measurement for when some one is most likely to be stuck/placed correctly.
The Match average for that Zyra is Plat 4 in all of their games. Given Riot uses Titles to motivate and distract folks I would not be to surprised if they end up placing in gold despite having plat MMR. All they need to do Is maintain 50% or higher for the LP slant to move them towards Plat thou.
Anyhow. Not what I had request. High gold in a low plat match is not surprising, especially when they only ever duo with a plat player.
So... Yea. Please show a Pic for the Silver in a Plat match. I expect most of them will be Plat4 and silver1 in a Gold average match if you look at it, with the occasional WTF duo impact. Open to being wrong if some one can provide proof.
MrTVEye2 votesNot close at all. All players are plat 2-4 - so very close together - except for that zyra that is not ranked yet and looking at her op.gg she has always been gold since season 4, so pretty usual that she's in a plat match if she won like the first 2-3 placement matches.
Nothing like a regular silver player with a +- 50% winrate being matched with plat-players.
Nyarlathοtep1 votesNot close at all. All players are plat 2-4 - so very close together - except for that zyra that is not ranked yet and looking at her op.gg she has always been gold since season 4, so pretty usual that she's in a plat match if she won like the first 2-3 placement matches.
Nothing like a regular silver player with a +- 50% winrate being matched with plat-players.
An unranked shouldnt be matched with plats. Period. Especially one that hasnt touched the game for a long time.
Kai Guy3 votesRiots MMR does not decay to my knowledge. If their skill drops to the point they are deadweight being unranked means they have a much higher rating stake for each game. If their skills not there and they are dead weight they drop. You don't run hard resets because the quickest way to get players to their proper MMR range is to blend them vs established players. The entire concept is that you compare players to average to find if they are above and below it.
As they are consistently playing fine and winning more then they lose what exactly is your issue here?
