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What if Execute Abilities DIDN'T Show When You Could Kill Someone?

BrightWîngs··9 votes·3,248 views

( Please hear me out, read full post please. )

Is this feature really needed? I feel if such a thing was removed it would enable more room for error. Having the enemies have just a sign above their head in my opinion is just babying the player. I would understand if such abilities were hard to land but most executes are fairly easy to land Pyke Urgot ( no im not saying the champions are broken, please dont get that Idea ) but why do they get a big indicator? What is the ACTUAL need for it? If it were removed would it ruin these champions? or increase the skill floor and reward players with good judgment and understanding of the champion they are playing?

Obviously if you hover over the ability it should 100% tell you how low they need to be but I feel the sign above their head is unneeded. Or maybe have it only show WHEN you can kill them as in when they are at the required HP to execute and the sign not be so in your face kinda like Chogath

If there is an actual legitimate reason this is 100% needed I will admit I am wrong I'm not an unreasonable person.

Opinions? [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Edit: I love how split the opinions are means it might be somthing more to look into.

Also thanks to all the people who kept the discussion civil <3

41 Comments

Hotarµ7 votes

Pyke's ult is harder to hit than people think. It's hard to consistently land ultimates especially with all of the mobility that most meta champions have. On top of that, heals and flashes often make Pyke waste his ult, which is why Sona and other healers are great counters to Pyke.

Overall, I really don't think it matters too much. If they didn't have the indicators it wouldn't do anything but make it harder for newer players to pick up the champions. I pretty much know Pyke's threshold by heart and my friend who plays Urgot knows his threshold as well. I can understand how someone might view it differently, though.

BrightWîngs1 votes

I'm not saying it's impossible to miss but it's not exactly small or slow I havnt played Pyke a ton but the little bit I did his ult was the easiest to get down for me at least.

Hotarµ1 votes

It's not the slowest ability in the game but there's still a noticeable windup to it. If Pyke doesn't touch the ground the ultimate will miss and it's more than enough time for the majority of the cast to use a mobility spell to get out of it. Flashing and healing is also instantaneous meaning it's nearly impossible to mess it up. On top of that, the hitbox is a lot thinner and hitting people with the edges of it is very difficult especially when they have boots.

It's really not that easy.

BrightWîngs1 votes

Again I'm not saying it can't be missed. I don't feel trying to hit somone with the edge is somthing anyone should be trying to do though. A mobile ability or spell is really the only way to avoid it. I can't not mention the fact that yes there is a lot of mobility in game but at the same time so does Pyke he has VERY little issue getting to people.

The best thing I can compare Pyke ulti to is Leona ult (not saying they are the same thing) there are kinda similar wind up time is close to the same range on Leonas R is a lot better but the AOE is also is smaller. But I would say Leona R isn't really that difficult to land.

Maybe your definition of difficult differs from mine ( don't take that as flame I didn't know how else to word it XD ) because to me it isn't an insanely difficult ability to land.

Maybe this comparison will get my point across

People say Fiora is a hard champion to play and I agree she is more on the difficult side but she's not THAT hard you know what I mean? Like I'm not saying it's the easiest ability to hit but I'm also saying it's not that hard.

hrooza dota 1 votes

his ulti is way harder to hit for me then almost every support ulti i have used

BrightWîngs1 votes

And I would agree with you my best comparison is Leona but most support ults are either massive AOE or point and click.

hrooza dota 2 votes

i main leona and i would say i never had hard time hitting it (even if the stun did not hit the slow is extremely powerful).

BrightWîngs1 votes

As I said it's the best comparison I don't think it's that hard to hit but if mobility is what makes Pyke ult hard to hit I feel Leona out would suffer from the same issue no?

hrooza dota 1 votes

the deal is the shape small mobility can easily get out of the X while its hard to get out fully of the slow circle of leona ultimate, not to forget leona can engage with her other abilitys first and then ulti , pyke can do that vs like a lone opponent but he will die way to quick in any real fight.

BrightWîngs1 votes

Most dashes if not all can get out of the circle completely. And I don't feel Pyke should be able to do that since what his end result is is killing them not locking them down. In a real fight what Pyke should be doing is fishing for hooks and when every one starts getting low you just start playing a gruesome version of Whack A Mole XD.

Pyke ult is SUPER impactful in a team fight and getting a huge sign saying press R and he dies seems too easy to me. I more on the side of only seeing the sign if they are at the required HP it seems a little more fair to both sides.

hrooza dota 1 votes

i normally aim behind the enemy so the only way most dashs get out is to be used into me which is not a great idea (namely lucian kindred and vayne dashs since adc are almost always my target) .

also a lot of ultis are super impactful and you dont need a timing to use them you use them when a chance happen instant of hoping your team put ppl in low health, also you get deleted way to fast if you choose to engage unlike most melee supports and that make you lose your impact hard which make pyke really tricky compared to many supports who go in and click all buttons and pretty much did their job .

and being easy to pick up in not a bad thing because a lot of champions are easy to pick up and play. (of course some cant be easy to pick up because of their kit such as azir and that cant change with Qol changes

BrightWîngs1 votes

Well of course most ultimates are impactful my point being the room for error is too low for how impactful it is it's not hard to land it executes and give team gold and really the only way to beat it is with a flash or dash.

Engaging on Pyke is just different more of the time landing 1 Q is normally all you need if your team follows up. Obviously throwing yourself at the enemy is not how he should be played and him getting deleted is the reason he takes aftershock over everything else.

hrooza dota 1 votes

will a lot of ultimate's are impactful with little room for error is my point, a lot of them just need to be aimed and thats it, pyke needs enemy be low enough which is not an easy task if your team is not stomping, also its countered by more then dash or flash as heals exist and they easily get you out of the range or just not getting that low as pyke is not good if no enemy is low (i know its weird to hear but sometimes enemys cant get low because they are winning) .

engaging on pyke in a teamfight is not just a Q (unless you have some strong ranged attacker to finish the pulled guy out), and you cant E in team fights that easily (after shock can save you if few enemys are there but mostly you will be killed in no time) .

again being easy to pick up is never a bad thing and never should be.

kingDeDeDarius1 votes

Agree, it had great range and sizeable aoe

kingDeDeDarius1 votes

Then give it to Darius and be consistent. In all honesty though, pyke's aoe resetting execute is far easier to utilize properly than someone like darius's, who has to stack, be in close range, and if he fails, gets screwed most of the time unlike pyke, who just runs, stuns, and heals, only to return for another Q pick, etc

Hotarµ1 votes

"Far easier to utilize than someone like Darius"

Maybe you think it's easier to land because of the range but overall it has way more room for error.

Darius has almost no room for error since his ultimate is targeted. It's nesrly impossible to escape Darius' ult once he's in range. His ability to build resistances means he has other options and is able to stay in teamfights longer than Pyke.

Pyke has to aim an ultimate with a tight hitbox and a windup. It's also got an indicator that warns people of when they're in kill range which adds more room for error.

In a realistic scenario with Youmuu's/Duskblade, Pyke's ultimate will do about 600-700 damage which means you have to lead your ult instead of popping it the second they reach under the threshold if you actually want to kill people before they get away or heal.

On top of all of that, he dies instantly when focused unlike Darius who can build resistances.

Alzon1 votes

The “room for error” is fully stacking Noxian Might, along with actually killing with Noxian Guillotine. I believe it’s fair. Totally different from Pyke’s ult.

Hotarµ1 votes

I didn't say it wasn't different. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses but overall I think Pyke's ultimate is harder to consistently perform well with for the reasons listed above.

AeroWaffle3 votes

Is having a low skill floor really that bad? The skill ceiling for such champions already reward good judgment and understanding of said champions.

Ozzburne2 votes

{quoted}

Is having a low skill floor really that bad? The skill ceiling for such champions already reward good judgment and understanding of said champions.

Garden pressing a and running at you while slamming his keyboard with his forehead is the pinnacle of good judgment and skill apparently.

death indicators are for scrubs and should be removed. If you don’t think so it’s just cuz you’re bad

AeroWaffle1 votes

{quoted}

Garden pressing a and running at you while slamming his keyboard with his forehead is the pinnacle of good judgment and skill apparently.

Removing indicators wouldn't change that tactic, all it would do it make the champion slightly harder to play for those just starting the champion. There are plenty of avenues to outplay someone who's unskilled at a champion, Garen included.

If you notice that half your quote is gone it's because they were only insults to detract from the feebleness of your argument.

BrightWîngs1 votes

Well no it's not a bad thing but for somthing as impactful as an execute I feel it should not be so easy pretty much all I'm saying I'm not saying make it ungodly impossible to kill someone with it or anything just feel you shouldn't have your hand held for somthing so impactful.

The Ecdysiast3 votes

They previously didn't. Although back before it became the norm, the only example of a true-damage sure-kill was Cho'gath's R.

To ask that champions who rely almost entirely on their execute to have the indicator removed is a bit of a stretch, since it, in every case with an indicator, is giving you completely necessary information for the function of the ability.

Yeah, you can still get a kill if you hit someone with Pyke's or Cho's R, but without an indicator you wouldn't know if you're going to get the reset or a stack. Other champions don't have such a thing because they don't have a mechanic that relies on it. Urgot can't even activate his until the target is within the threshold. It is a necessary function of the ability.

On the flip-side, if you're to call for removal of that indicator then it's only fair that similar indicators which are detrimental to the user be removed as well. Imagine how much less clarity there would be if you couldn't tell when Jhin was on the fourth shot or Annie had her passive up (though for a long time the only indicator for Annie was a particle effect that her E could easily hide). Or even when Darius had Noxian Might.

Such things are in the game for clarity because they display when core mechanics of the abilities are available.

Lord Malpercio3 votes

We don't speak of the dark times when Annie could hide her stun.

It taught people a very important lesson though: She always has her stun.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Malpercio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3iiKEh8i,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-03-11T19:44:11.483+0000)

We don't speak of the dark times when Annie could hide her stun.

It taught people a very important lesson though: She always has her stun.

The dark times when people actually played Annie.

Annie item 3070

The thigh guy2 votes

What if execute abilities didn’t activate at half your health? :O this is some ground breaking shit.

Dynikus2 votes

If you want to test out your theory about execute indicators being unnecessary, I'd suggest playing kalista and seeing just how often an enemy walks away with 2hp because you slightly misjudged your rend. It's really, really annoying. I know her e isn't technically an execute, but it basically functions as one, and it's very important for you to kill with it to not put it on CD mid team fight.

BrightWîngs1 votes

Well like you said it's not really the same thing kalista rend is doesn't have a set percentage when you can kill somebody with it it differs based on how many spears you put into them. Now say if rend was an execute and the threshold was say 25% HP you wouldn't really have that issue anymore because you know when they are around 25% you can kill them.

ODiiiiiN2 votes

I mean they are already only shown at required hp. So not sure what youre asking. You want them to be removed all together? I would ask why, to make it harder for people playing Pyke or Urgot so you dont die as often to them? If so, as much as I hate Pyke, I think thats just you being petty and not wanting to deal with getting killed rather then worrying about the well being of those champs and the experience playing them.

Trust me I hate pyke's ult.. but ive played him before. Its pretty shitty to miss it and not have anything left. I think unless ure really used to him you wouldnt be able to tell when u can ult people like Darius or more tankies for example.

Sona Ping2 votes

{quoted}

I mean they are already only shown at required hp. So not sure what youre asking. You want them to be removed all together? I would ask why, to make it harder for people playing Pyke or Urgot so you dont die as often to them? If so, as much as I hate Pyke, I think thats just you being petty and not wanting to deal with getting killed rather then worrying about the well being of those champs and the experience playing them.

Trust me I hate pyke's ult.. but ive played him before. Its pretty shitty to miss it and not have anything left. I think unless ure really used to him you wouldnt be able to tell when u can ult people like Darius or more tankies for example.

That is totally uncalled for. What's petty and ungenerous is just assuming that the only reason someone wants to discuss a mechanic or change is that they're attempting to make their favorite champion stronger or make one they lose to unfairly weaker and that they are being dishonest with what they write. You even said you're "not sure what he's asking" yet you make that accusation. He can legitimately have his own preferences in games.

ODiiiiiN1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3iiKEh8i,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-03-11T20:33:31.928+0000)

That is totally uncalled for. What's petty and ungenerous is just assuming that the only reason someone wants to discuss a mechanic or change is that they're attempting to make their favorite champion stronger or make one they lose to unfairly weaker and that they are being dishonest with what they write. You even said you're "not sure what he's asking" yet you make that accusation. He can legitimately have his own preferences in games.

stttf.... U know what hes asking for. Dont write a whole paragraph worth of bullshit to try to make it seem like we don't get it. He wants Pyke players to have a harder time. But listen, again ill say I'm all for it, cause I really do hate Pyke. But what I hate even more is when people try to pull a reverse psychology bit, like that's ever worked on anybody. "Like yea I think it would be for the good of the game... make it more skillful u know" or "Yea cause I play that champ so I know, he is definitely a lil OP here... but not too much!".

Please.

Sona Ping1 votes

{quoted}

stttf.... U know what hes asking for. Dont write a whole paragraph worth of bullshit to try to make it seem like we don't get it. He wants Pyke players to have a harder time. But listen, again ill say I'm all for it, cause I really do hate Pyke. But what I hate even more is when people try to pull a reverse psychology bit, like that's ever worked on anybody. "Like yea I think it would be for the good of the game... make it more skillful u know" or "Yea cause I play that champ so I know, he is definitely a lil OP here... but not too much!".

Please.

Some people play the games that they play because they like them. Really, they do! That's the reason they play and so they want the game to be shaped in a way so that it continues something they enjoy or becomes something better. Some players aren't small people trying to be deliberately deceitful in discussions with no effects, as if to gain an advantage in game they play that they don't profit from. That may be how you think but don't try to place that upon others.

BrightWîngs2 votes

I appreciate you for not seeing the worst in people never change my friend :)

BrightWîngs2 votes

No it's not because I die to them... I myself just dont like having my hand held when playing the game. There's somthing about doing the right thing without being given the answer lol.

Pyke ulti is SUPER impactful giving you and an ally gold for a kill and it can reset if there was a little more room for error it wouldn't be as much of nightmare to balance.

When I said only show the HP required I mean show the indicator when they are at THAT required HP if they arnt at that amount of HP the indicator is not there it's basically being given the answer to a question you havnt even gotten to yet.

No intentions on complaining about any of the examples I gave in the post just feel players don't need to be baby sat when playing.

Sona Ping2 votes

It's not 100% needed and it would "increase the skill floor and reward...". The reason it was put on Pyke, if I recall correctly, was that players were misjudging it in their tests and Riot thought that they should add that feature so that wouldn't happen, and some players asked for it on Urgot since Pyke had it. It's not unreasonable of you to think that, you have what you value in games.

Tele II1 votes

I used to play tons of Urgot before they added the indicator, and it was a very very minor difference. I see the indicator as merely a quality of life change. Not a big deal, dont really care much either way if they keep it or dont.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

in my experience those indicators are usually more for their opponents than the people who play champions with executes.

as a garen main ive learned to pretty accurately gage when someone is, or is about to get into kill range of my ultimate.

the same when im playing chogath. i can usually predict if my opponent is in feast range after an e empowered auto attack + grasp, and usually just combo quickly to give them less time to react.

BrightWîngs1 votes

Well forgive me for not understanding how that would be true because their opponent can't see the execute threshold. I think they may be able to see Garen though I'm not sure I know when I've played Garen when they are in the required HP the villian sword will make a noise and glow a little. But as far as Pyke Urgot Chogath the person on the other end CANT see it only the person playing said execute champion can unless I'm blind can can't see it which is very possible XD

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Well forgive me for not understanding how that would be true because their opponent can't see the execute threshold. I think they may be able to see Garen though I'm not sure I know when I've played Garen when they are in the required HP the villian sword will make a noise and glow a little. But as far as Pyke Urgot Chogath the person on the other end CANT see it only the person playing said execute champion can unless I'm blind can can't see it which is very possible XD

you should definitely be able to see chogath execute indicator, unless they changed that. it shows up on your character hitbox as a red circle.

i think you can see the other ones aswell.

BrightWîngs1 votes

Maybe cho but I'm like 99.99% sure you can't see it from Urgot Or Pyke because their execute thingy is permenatly on your HP bar no matter what HP you're at

kingDeDeDarius1 votes

As a Darius main, I agree, their indicators should be removed, especially if they won't give one to Darius in the basis of skill expression, especially when darius's is much harder to use properly and chain together than pyke's ult

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