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Ki Strike VS. Trial by Fire

ExecutorDill··1 votes·434 views

This is a discussion about how GangPlank's new passive is extremely over powered and Shen's is underpowered.

Let's look at the stats shall we:

GP's passive deals 20 + (10x level) +120% bonus AD as bonus True Damage yes not physical but True Damage.

Let's Say GP gets 30 Bonus AD from Flat AD Marks, Quints, masteries and Long Sword start. Trial by Fire will deal 30+46= 76 Bonus True Damage on hit. Not to mention the damage from the regular auto attack.

Shen's Ki Strike deals 4+(4x level) + 10% of Shen's Bonus Health as Magic Damage.

Lets say shen gets 363 bonus health from Flat Health Quints, Seals, Masteries and Ruby Crystal start. Ki Strike will deal 8+36= 44 Bonus Magic on hit. In addition to the regular auto attack damage. But this damage is reduced by Magic Resist so let's crunch some numbers on various stats at lvl 1.

(Without Runes)

  1. 30 mr= Deals 33.85 Magic Damage
  2. 32.1 mr= 33.30 Magic Damage

(With Flat Mr Glyphs) 42 mr= 30.99 Magic Damage 44 mr= 30.55 Magic Damage

(With Flat Mr Glyphs and Masteries) 47= 29.93 Magic Damage 49= 29.53 Magic Damage

Gangplank wins by a LongShot!

People think buffing shen's passive can break his early game (mainly because he has Q with passive) but what about GP's chunking Q? Even though GP passive is on a much longer cooldown he can instantly reset it with E unlike Shen.

16 Comments

Old Man Teeto4 votes

Shen is a tank with gap closer/CC.

Gangplank is a bruiser/melee carry who runs at you.

ExecutorDill1 votes

Uhuh, I understand their difference but shen could still be a little more...

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

Shen's passive also has cooldown reduction built into it. 10 seconds, -1.5 per basic attack (-3 if W is up)

Gangplank's passive has a 15-second cooldown, and only refreshes if he pops his E. Which requires him to attack the barrels, which you can instead break to disrupt him.

ExecutorDill1 votes

Actually it's 1 Second (2 when W is up)

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Huh, you're right. Still, basic idea stands. A Shen in consistent combat will approximately half his passive's cooldown, while Gangplank has to time last-hitting his own personal minion to get two procs in one fight. Not impossible, but not exactly convenient either.

ExecutorDill1 votes

Yea but the damage of one of GP's procs is equivalent to like 3 of Shen's procs. That means if he does get 2 procs there is no way shen can match that damage, and his scaling is AD, very convenient. What the point of having mediocre AP scaling on all damage abilities when your a melee who deals most of his damage on autos? Shen doesn't doesn't convert to consistent on hit damage, Like Orianna nor does he have strong DoT like Malzahar. And Burst? Ha don't make me laugh. Shen needs a buff.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Well, there are two main factors you are overlooking.

  1. Shen is a tank, not a melee carry. He's going to deal less damage than a melee carry, no two ways about it. Shen's damage is respectable, but not going to be that high.

  2. Shen's damage scales on a defensive stat instead of an offensive stat. That means Shen doesn't need to build much in offensive items to remain relevant; a single, AS-based item is more than enough for him if you build any offense on him. Meanwhile, Gangplank's scales on AD; sure, that's convenient when you're allowed to build glass cannon, but Gangplank is a melee champion with pretty basic innate defenses. The one person I know who consistently plays Gangplank pretty much always builds some defense on him, so he can actually survive fights.

ExecutorDill1 votes

It's just lack luster man, for a champ with no AD scalings to promote dps builds. You'd think Riot would be more forgiving about the damage his abilities do.

Malphite Sion TahmKench

These are all tanks that are better at soaking up damage while better at dealing more damage than Shen.

Sasogwa1 votes

I'd be cautious. Because as much as I thought Shen was weak and needed buffs before his last set of buffs (scaling mr + energy costs buff), now that he's played in competitive I probably would think twice before buffing him. Also, I see no mention of the cooldown of those passives? Man, always put the cooldown to comparison too ! Or you're purposingly omitting an aspect that goes against you? I'll check that later and edit my post. And finally, GP rework is not out yet. We should wait to see how he plays out before making comparisons with too much haste. Especially since champions have kits that have different power levels in their spells/passive (some have very strong passives, weak ability, stronger other ability etc.) it's hard to compare the abilities of champions one by one because they're meant to be part of a whole.

(insert random rant from me about Veigar that Riot took completely wrong by looking at his abilities one by one before reworking him and didn't give a crap about how his kit worked out as a whole afterwhile).

edit: GP passive : every 15 seconds, resetted if he destroys a powder keg. Shen passive : every 9/8/7 seconds, reduced by 1 sec / auto (2 if shield is standing) Overall though I'm not very familiar with GP's powder keg mechanics, I think Shen still uses his passive more often.

ExecutorDill1 votes

Shen's passive is weak and his abilities or weak.

He does not have a strong passive like Yasuo He does not have strong basic abilities like Irelia

His base values are small, his scalings are small and very inconvenient and although his abilities are not as strong in Tanking like TahmKench building him anything but Tank is unviable because his damage potential is strongly Capped.

No I did not omit the passive cooldowns. I just did not expand on them. You'll find I note on them in the last paragraph. The reason for is because 1 TbF proc is stronger than several Ki Strikes, and GP does not have to remain in combat to successfully reset the Cooldown.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

Shen's passive is weak and his abilities or weak.

I'm sorry to say that, but even if that's true it only proves my point even more.

The thing is, pros don't pick champions because they are fun or whatever, they pick strong/OP champions, meaning shen is hardly weak. That would mean, that

  1. if Shen's abilities are weak one by one, they work well as a whole and he's strong, meaning it's stupid to compare abilities one by one.
  2. if Shen's abilities are strong, Shen should not be buffed. Maybe Gangplank should be nerfed, but I highly doubt it. He doesn't have much steroids to make him an OP full damage carry (no attack speed, ad, crit, arpen steroid - just strong burst with Q + passive if itemized for it). At least his damage potential is situational, I'm thinking of the burst from his powder kegs, but it's not like he's gonna go in the open and pentakill everybody like an overfed Yi. If built as a bruiser/tank he doesn't have any defensive scalings. So meh.

Anyway, as I said, it's too early to jump to conclusions about gp.

ExecutorDill1 votes

He has missing health scalings on his W. So ince he has high enough resistances his TF sustain is unmatchable.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

He has missing health scalings on his W. So ince he has high enough resistances his TF sustain is unmatchable.

150 + 15% missing health (+1 ap but he should not have a lot) on a 14s CD (at max rank) is not something that I'd call "unmatchable TF sustain"

Cough cough Nasus Warwick Vladimir DrMundo Aatrox Akali

ExecutorDill2 votes

Ok maybe i went overboard with unmatchable lol..

Miraweave1 votes

I mean, Shen's passive also gives him energy and procs more often. And shen's also a tank and it scales off of a defensive stat.

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