If Nasus turns out to be too good post buff, give his R the Darius treatment

HateDaddy··107 votes·6,479 views

Or something similar. I've watched a few streams and I have to say it certainly makes him seem horrifically broken. But people haven't had time to adjust either, people think they have to fight Nasus for every breath of oxygen and often brawl too much and run themselves oom or take aggro from creeps and die to creeps. This leads to straight disrespectful play where they think they can fight Nasus while his ult is up when in reality, even pre buff you wouldn't unless you were like Olaf, Darius or Illaoi with a good ult. So it remains to be seen.

However, if this is indeed a problem please don't nerf his ults CD, randomly make wither 200 range because that's the type of dumb shit you guys do randomly, just change it in such a way that his all-in is much weaker early. Level 1 ult grants no CD on Q, level 2 ult grants 25% CD on Q and level 3 ult grants 50%. This keeps his intended power curve in tact while potentially balancing him reasonably if nerfs are needed. Thank me later.

117 Comments

PePsiLemoNN17 votes

I agree. Make him jump in the air and dunk you when he ults Kappa.

CytheGuy4 votes

Garen's old Q animation made him to a front-flip and slam his sword on you. Never knew why they changed it, that animation was awesome

Dracocrash2 votes

gitgud

Just Jangle11 votes

That seems like a logical and well planed idea.

Rito balance team ain't gonna do it and nerf him to the ground.

Rockm Sockm10 votes

How bout they revert all Nasus, and Cho buffs because they were fine in the first place.

HateDaddy66 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rockm Sockm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ZUkEHcp,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-07-26T17:56:00.007+0000)

How bout they revert all Nasus, and Cho buffs because they were fine in the first place.

Except Nasus wasn't. I'd argue ChoGath was weak, too.

starelementpoke2 votes

{quoted}

Except Nasus wasn't. I'd argue ChoGath was weak, too.

Eh, he seemed okay to me, Nasus that is, maybe a bit on the weaker side. Maybe just revert, give a lower % shred, and using his Q to kill a minion gives a small mana refund and CD refund on said Q and ult?

Wafflessssss21 votes

Uh no that would be incredibly broken. Instead of doing actual damage in teamfights he would just stack twice as fast.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

Uh no that would be incredibly broken. Instead of doing actual damage in teamfights he would just stack twice as fast.

Everyone always complains about Nasus afk farming, but honestly how is this any different than other late game champs who are allowed to afk farm? The difference between Nasus and other late game champs is other late game champs don't have mana issues, so they can just sit in lane and afk farm forever with no problems. Giving Nasus a way to restore his mana would be a good change (or increasing his base mana regen or reducing the cost of his 'q') would be a good change, but it doesn't need to refresh the cooldown on minion kill.

KennysDreamGirl2 votes

My problem with nasus is he becomes unkillable while 2 shoting anybody below 150 armor(that number might be a little stretched but I'm just throwing one out there)

Morgan le Fey1 votes

If it makes you feel better, his E change was actually a nerf to his damage vs. anyone under 100 armor.

Enraged Piglet2 votes

that doesn't matter. Because of Nasus ult change he can Q twice which does enough damage to kill anyone below 100 armor. Then his Q cdr + his E also gives him the dps to crush anyone tankier then 100 armor. Also to other comments about other late game champions that are allowed to afk farm until late game. The problem with nasus farming like that is that a lot of people just use his Q to farm until the wave pushes into enemy towers taking forever and doing nothing for the team the entire time. Though champions like vayne have slow wave clear, vayne players generally don't freeze the wave at there second turret for 10 minutes and they don't only kill creeps with her Q and they also get Static shiv to push faster whereas a lot of Nasus players intentionally push slow to get more stacks. To the point where they will give up there inhibs and nexus to keep farming there Q.

Also Nasus new ult change pretty much doubles his DPS. Think if they went up to vayne and said, you know I think the problem is that vayne doesn't have enough dps lets double her dps when she ults while keeping everything else the same about vayne. That would be stupidly broken. Or what if when they reworked Kog'maw to give him double attack speed on his W, what if during that time they kept his original W that did 8% of a persons life per auto thus doubling Kog'maws damage. That would have been broken as hell. Even when they did go through with the change with taking Kog'maws percent max health damage with double attack speed Kog'maw still ended up as a broken piece of shit. Then we have Nasus who gains double dps while losing nothing and getting bonus armor pene against tanks which considering its a tank meta is pretty op. I mean Last whisper was originally broken as hell because it gave 35% armor pene and was a 3rd item buy every single game for adc's. Now Nasus on top of double dps has a free unnerfed last whisper on his E. Now what are Nasus's tank opponents supposed to do against Nasus? Even if his opponents aren't tanks that puts Nasus's team at an advantage because its a tank meta and so Nasus's team would love if there were no tanks on the enemy team. Nasus's new ult now also gives him the strength to 1v1 about anyone which he was already pretty good at doing.

Honestly the only change that I could see that they could do would be to first revert Nasus changes then change it to where when Nasus executes a target with his Q, say a minion it would give him some cd reduction back on his Q. So that Nasus can stack faster with his Q while pushing just as hard with his E. It would also help Nasus in lane sense with some Q cd reduction Nasus could then stack at early levels and if an enemy goes on Nasus his Q cd will go back up pretty fast even at early levels.

After those changes Riot would need to nerf late game nasus Q cdr because Nasus Q will be doing a lot more damage from the fact that he can stack faster and trade a bit better against enemy laners allowing him to super stack. Then the game will turn into one where if you shut down the Nasus early he will have a harder time being impactful in teamfights with his reduced Q cd but he would still be able to push fairly fast and pressure the map. But if you don't shut down the Nasus he would do massive damage with his Q on carries in teamfights.

Rins Thigh Socks9 votes

{quoted}

Eh, he seemed okay to me, Nasus that is, maybe a bit on the weaker side. Maybe just revert, give a lower % shred, and using his Q to kill a minion gives a small mana refund and CD refund on said Q and ult?

Nasus was on the weaker side lmfao

Nasus was shit. Nobody ever picked him because he was so laughably bad and got dumpstered by every toplaner only to get kited to oblivion in teamfights by anyone with CC or simply outpushed, nullifying his splitpush.

Terchio6 votes

I think their diagnosis is a bit off, though. Nasus is a one-by-one shredder with the CC to get it done. It made him impossible to ignore, but his tankiness made him foolish to focus. He'll be busted until folks have to turtle as soon as he hits 6, and then they'll hopefully make wither decently counterable for once. Of all things in League of Knockups, Merc treads and boots of swiftness should counter wither, but they really don't.

And Cho had a similar problem. He either worked great or not at all, and that was sliding toward not at all quickly. Truth be told, I blame his passive. If he got minions, he got money and sustain. If he didn't, he got neither. You find a way to get thru the finnicky early game, and late game was a cinch, particularly if he manages to feed. However, I don't think a champion with assassination potential, a naturally huge health pool, a knockup, a slow, and a silence needed another (3?) Slow(s) and %HP damage. He was weak, not dead.

Blåbæret4 votes

Lmao, the buffs were on point. Nasus did no damage to tanks, he needed a proper armor shred. Ult gives him an actual power window now.

Sorry buddy, but you're clueless.

I Main Swain3 votes

thats literally the point of tanks, to take minimal damage, not everybody is supposed to be able to just cheese through their defenses

FlameanatorX2 votes

Nasus isn't everybody, he's a hypserscaling single-target damage/splitpush focused juggernaut, and getting DPS'ed out by a late-game duelist isn't getting cheesed.

Also, the point of tanks is not actually to take minimal damage, it's to apply maximum disruption. Being melee champions without too much flashy mobility, the tankiness is merely needed so they can survive long enough to effectively disrupt, usually through considerable amounts of cc, and non-irrelevent damage output.

I Main Swain2 votes

but thats the problem, theres so much stuff to mitigate the defensive power of tanks now (not to mention actual tank items are pretty underwhelming for the most part atm) that tanks have the crappiest time staying alive anymore.

also i wasnt saying getting out-dps'd by him late game was "getting cheesed", i was saying that everyone feels like if they dont do a lot of damage to tanks or heaven forbid if they lose a fight to a tank then tanks are op or their champ/class is under powered. again im not saying nasus doesnt need a buff but an aoe instant 35% armor shred is certainly not it. i would have no problem with it if it were a gradual build over the course of the ability.

FlameanatorX1 votes

Again it's not if just anyone feels like they don't deal damage to tanks, it's specifically Nasus. Other juggernauts can buy a black cleaver, Nasus can't because he can't stack it efficiently, and he's supposed to be the late game hyper-scaling juggernaut.

It's perfectly fine for a lot of champions to stop dealing significant damage to tanks, and lots of champions do just that in the mid to late game. You're not getting burst down by pantheons and Jayce's with their lethality builds as a tank, right? How about Warwick, when you body-block for your carry, you don't usually see gray within a short period of time afterwords. J4? Lux? Jhin (compared to other ADC's)? There are plenty of popular champions right now that tanks can easily tank against, just because one champion gets a buff to his late game that partially invalidates tanks doesn't mean everyone has to be able to melt tanks now.

Theorchero5 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Main Swain,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ZUkEHcp,comment-id=00050000000100000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T04:13:57.838+0000)

thats literally the point of tanks, to take minimal damage, not everybody is supposed to be able to just cheese through their defenses

No, lol.

Tanks aren't supposed to be immortal. Nasus needed the buffs. The % armor shred should stay if nothing else does. It's good for Nasus because 90% of the time he's not able to attack anything else to begin with.

Terchio1 votes

Nasus has the CC and tankiness to single out targets and the power to kill them. No idea why we feel he needed armor shred when he is supposed to ignore the armor anyways. He might as well function like old Poppy, with just a bit less early cheese, but stronger hold. I don't think old Poppy needed any type of defense shred (new one is another story).

Theorchero1 votes

{quoted}

Nasus has the CC and tankiness to single out targets and the power to kill them. No idea why we feel he needed armor shred when he is supposed to ignore the armor anyways. He might as well function like old Poppy, with just a bit less early cheese, but stronger hold. I don't think old Poppy needed any type of defense shred (new one is another story).

Lol, no. Nasus still has a shit earlier game, but he's always had a decent lvl 6 all in with his ult, even before the changes making him gain more resistances instead of AD over the duration.

He was garbage late game because once tanks got armor he wasn't able to do anything to them, even with the flat armor shred which couldn't be increased more because it'd mean he'd 1 shot squishies even easier, so a flash Q would instakill them even if he got peeled.

And since he didn't build much health and instead built durability in mr/armor, he'd be fairly squishy because he didn't gain much life back because his lifesteal was based on post mitigation.

Terchio1 votes

Lol, no. Nasus still has a shit earlier game, but he's always had a decent lvl 6 all in with his ult, even before the changes making him gain more resistances instead of AD over the duration.

I'm talking early teamfight, not early game. Poppy had stronger early fight cheese, whereas Nasus tends to carry his cheese longer. Also, I never said Nasus had strong early anything.

He was garbage late game because once tanks got armor he wasn't able to do anything to them, even with the flat armor shred which couldn't be increased more because it'd mean he'd 1 shot squishies even easier, so a flash Q would instakill them even if he got peeled.

You're not supposed to tear up tanks. That's not your job. Who are these people who function as tank shredders only? The whole point of a tank is taking the damage for your team. You're playing into their hands if this is your playstyle. And if anything, being a burst AD champion (as opposed to the more DPS types) actually works toward tank shredding because it reduces the effectiveness of a couple of anti-AD tank passives, such as Amumu's E passive, Doran's Shield's, Fizz's passive, and the Tough Skin mastery, as well as anything that activates on damage taken, like the mastery Fearless. I don't know where it is that Nasus is so absurdly bad against tanks. No %HP damage or True damage, but his Wither and natural tankiness make him the anti-feed against other toplaners regardless, so you're generally reliable enough to make it to later game, where Wither and tankiness drive you through teamfights.

And since he didn't build much health and instead built durability in mr/armor, he'd be fairly squishy because he didn't gain much life back because his lifesteal was based on post mitigation.

He builds MR/Armor, like anyone else, to increase his durability. He has a strong natural HP boost in his ultimate, and powerful natural lifesteal to boot, on top of strong anti-DPS on his Wither. Of course Armor/MR are going to be stronger than straight health, and that doesn't mean he's anywhere near squishy when played right. It's probably related to the Cho problem, too, as people think he can stay squishy without Armor/MR simply because he scales with HP. However, his scaling with MR/Armor is arguably stronger (Feast is kinda busted) with scaling on passive sustain as well as high natural HP values, along with a huge focus on utility. Who are these other champions that scale better with Armor/MR? And please don't say Malphite Rammus Galio ... These champions have limited sustain values for their mitigation, and tend to function best as one-chance burst/hold champions. Getting scaling damage from mitigation doesn't mean much when other than that scaling, you end up running around begging enemies to hit you, and get limited additional utlility out of it.

And none of this says that Nasus is not weak right now. It's simply saying that he has the tools to do his job generally, and shouldn't be carried into other directions because his Wither is what is keeping him from being effective elsewhere. When these changes roll out, he's going to become strong enough over time that he's going to take a hit down the line, and he's going to be this weird tank-shredder character that makes no sense whatsoever, because everybody whined about being able to shred tanks, of all things. Seriously, why do you even want this? Just for early game? He's supposed to be weak early game, and build indefinitely, that's his purpose. You're asking for trouble, and sadly, you're going to get it fairly soon.

Overall, I don't understand in which way Nasus isn't built for his role, completely disregarding his E shred. He can focus down squishies with the best of 'em, and can likewise function as tank by focusing everyone's attention on him because of that power. The only reason he's having any problems is because tanks are now absurdly overtuned, and even so, he'll still end up with heavy influence if the team is built around it, like with just one of these oppressive tanks as jungle or support (even Galio mid). I guarantee that he'll get a nerf coming soon, and it won't be a revert, it will probably tear his purpose into an entirely different role (which may or may not be a bad thing). Main point is, they're shooting for a solution, and this will be a grand miss.

Champion Skin8 votes

The thing with Cho'gath was that the buff to his E was huge.... in that it if he ever got in melee range he now can slow enemies making his powerful but unreliable kit a lot more reliable..... and if nothing else it gives him slightly more follow up after an W and Q have already been used.... which is also quite valuable as it can give him that last bit of damage he needs to finish the enemy with his R

Since before if Cho'gath W + Q didn't put the target in range to get killed by his R.... then cho'gath probably wouldn't be killing the target (unless he had while to just run after the target without them escaping with some mobility or having allies assist them)

I Main Swain3 votes

personally i loved cho just how he was as far as his old e goes, but i will admit he was weak. i miss being able to poke enemy laners just by farming. tbh i think a small rework would be reasonable for him, but definitely low priority

LyingOnLine7 votes

Oh please, he's not going to suddenly turn into singed or Cho.

HateDaddy11 votes

{quoted}

Oh please, he's not going to suddenly turn into singed or Cho.

It's just a proactive post my dude. It definitely seem to be on the stronger side, which is why I said the patch needs to be played out so we can get a full picture, let people adapt etc

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

was obvious tbh

TwitchInMyPants3 votes

Probably not, but it won't stop a hate bandwagon from forming after their spine is crushed by the doge's pimp cane. We don't like kneejerk nerfs that target the wrong things, if something about a kit is overbearing that part of the kit should be targeted. HateDaddy's point is if a nerf needs addressed, it should be specifically the thing they added that made him broken. And yes there's reason to be concerned, Fiora and Zac are good recent examples. Fiora already has to be buffed because instead of addressing her burst or her AS slow they crippled her mobility so she's not allowed to do any damage.

Zac might need buffed because instead of addressing the knockup increase on E that took him from 46% to 56% winrate due to his guarantee'd E into R combo, they've nerfed his health, they'ved nerfed his cds, and they've nerfed the base damage on every skill. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf cinderhulk and because they wanted to keep the broken new combo the champion's jungling ability is crippled and his early game is too bad to justify compared to a Vi or Sejuani.

Riot does this shit pretty often, they refuse to revert changes so it often results in them fixing things that aren't broken.

OceanicEyes6 votes

Sounds like a good suggestion to me. I haven't played with new Nasus yet but looks like you just need to treat him like the many melee champs top that you need to avoid when their ultimate is being used (unless you're ahead or a similar champ), like Trundle, Illaoi, Renekton, or Flora.

Champion Skin2 votes

Well actually how much the ult does changes depending on the cooldown of his Q

At level 6 with 0% CDR and rank 3 Q ---> 6 seconds Q cooldown Ult last for 15 seconds.... 15/6 = 2.5 Nasus gets 2.5 Q's during 15 seconds and with his ult that is doubled to 5 Q's

Gaining +2.5 Q's is good but it is also spread over 15 seconds and he has to use Q constantly any delay in getting off his Q will make the effect even weaker.... so yeah not that great in the worst case

In the best case with rank 5 Q (level 9+) and 40% CDR ----> 2.4 seconds Q cooldown Ult last for 15 seconds.... 15/2.4 = 6.25 Nasus gets 6.25 Q's during 15 seconds and with his ult that is double to 12.5 Q's

Gaining +6.25 Q's over 15 seconds that's a lot better and stronger (also not that item 3057 items have 1.5 seconds cooldown and in this case Nasus Q would have 1.2 seconds cooldown which means his Q wouldn't always proc Sheen)

Alpha Samsuni6 votes

Patch 7.16 Nasus We decided last patch that Nasus needed some buffs to his late game were necessary, but we clearly went overboard. To help balance his ult, we decided to shorten Wither's range by 50

HateDaddy4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Alpha AMistiquin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ZUkEHcp,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-26T17:24:06.820+0000)

Patch 7.16 Nasus We decided last patch that Nasus needed some buffs to his late game were necessary, but we clearly went overboard. To help balance his ult, we decided to shorten Wither's range by 50

That's also a plausible scenario on the opposite side of the spectrum that tends to be true. Although historically riot has been heavy handed with nerfs when it comes to Nasus, with some good reason in their defense. I simply don't want a nerf that results in him being total garbage, even worse than he was prior to his buff. Riot has their focus on 130+ champs so I realize they lose track of some. I'm here to remind them of Nasus.

Alpha Samsuni2 votes

Next thing you know Q gives you 2 stacks

Arakadia4 votes

That would actually be massive.

Need Gold 4 Tent2 votes

or a revert to his old old old self where q wasn't even worth maxing and people really maxed E as the meta.

JSTIN82 votes

That was early season 2 right? Wasn't he considered a joke at the time as well

Need Gold 4 Tent2 votes

He was. The reward for Q max was lousy that even hyfe advocated for maxing E or W first in his old guide for Nasus (E for waveclear and W for team utility). Then everything changed when they decided to make it +3. Before then, Nasus even avoided Tri Force to go tanky utility. That being said, his W was broken at that time too, so he could do that. 1 W basically meant the enemy had no ADC for 5 seconds.

MysterQ6 votes

So his R will reset if his Q kills a champ? Thanks.

HateDaddy8 votes

{quoted}

So his R will reset if his Q kills a champ? Thanks.

Don't be a smartass, I explained my point in the OP

4G PnutCollida5 votes

I don't know about anyone else, but let's just play out this scenario:

Nasus somehow gets fed, and let's say he has about 400 stacks, which isn't that hard if your good at Nasus.

If Nasus gets the maximum amount of CDR from his items, his Q will get a CD of 2.4

Because of his new buff, while ulting his Q cooldown is reduced by 50%

This means that while ulting, he can Q every 1.2 seconds, which lets just round to 1.

His ultimate lasts for 15 seconds.

Doing 15 x 400 (400 damage per Q per second), you get 6000.

Combine Nasus with anybody who can give you speed (Ex: Lulu), Nasus can go in, slow you with wither, catch up to you with the speed buff from another ally, reduce your armor by 35%, and constantly Q you.

Rip my Garen top lane

WoonStruck30 votes

Garen can outright remove any slow with his MS buff.

He can also Q more often than Nasus can be sped up by someone else or slow you down.

Garen still deals %HP true damage, shreds armor, and has a huge true damage nuke on his R.

He's one of the last champs that would ever have a problem with a buffed Nasus.


If Nasus isn't fed, thus isn't villain, he's obviously not a problem in that game, is he?

Danjeng3 votes

Kills on Garen do not count on the villain count. Nasus will most likely spend most of his time in the top lane.

WoonStruck4 votes

In which case he's not a problem in that game. If he afk farms/pushes, he's easy to gank and kill. That's always been his weakness.

Also, I never said kills on Garen counted towards Villain. Pretty much everyone already knows this.

Either way, Nasus has 0 chance of killing Garen solo unless the Garen is, frankly, horrible at the game. Even if Nasus could become Villain from killing Garen...he basically wouldn't because Nasus cannot close on Garen. Ever.

Dominick Destine6 votes

{quoted}

Garen can outright remove any slow with his MS buff. He can also Q more often than Nasus can be sped up by someone else or slow you down. Garen still deals %HP true damage, shreds armor, and has a huge true damage nuke on his R. He's one of the last champs that would ever have a problem with a buffed Nasus. If Nasus isn't fed, thus isn't villain, he's obviously not a problem in that game, is he?

That is the most overstated and exaggerated description of Garen I've ever seen.

WoonStruck22 votes

Oh really? Every aspect of Nasus is mitigated by Garen's kit, specifically in a 1v1.

No, Garen is not a strong champion, but Nasus cannot touch him.


Garen has more mobility than Nasus. Garen can outright ignore the only thing Nasus has to make Garen fight him. Garen's Q has a lower cooldown than Nasus' W.

These are all facts.

I never said that Garen is a hard counter to Nasus or anything, but the fact still stands that Garen can easily farm that lane, and there is 0% possibility of Nasus killing him unless he severely misplays or gets ganked.

That's assuming they're even. If Nasus is ahead, he still can't force Garen to fight him, and this also usually means he will end up the Villain, which means lots of %HP true damage on top of the armor shred Garen will provide for his team against Nasus.

If Garen ends up ahead, he'll probably have kill potential on Nasus, and even if he doesn't, he can at least get afk farm.


So tell me, which part is exaggerated in this example? This is simply how things would play out.

Gone by Night1 votes

Garen not a strong champion? Seen how Cowsep troll builds full crit on Garen and shitstomps game in Korean Diamond?

Arsenic Sulfur14 votes

It's actually impossible to reach masters by one-tricking Garen. No one has done it because of one simple fact; if you can kite well and consistently, you will always beat Garen outside of getting assassinated by the full AD build. Garen doesn't have enough to get in range, and nothing to stay in range outside of items.

Plenty of tried, none have succeeded nor can do some build shenanigans.

That evidence is also anecdotal. "Imaqtpie has beaten players in master division with old Urgot, so Urgot must be a good champion".

My Heartshaker3 votes

Then you're stuck with a massive problem.

You're playing garen.

Meep Man3 votes

That's not a lot of damage to output over 15 seconds, especially when you reduce it with Armor and any other form of damage reductions. It's not even enough to kill a Tank alone. If you combine it with his base AD and ultimate damage, you might just kill them. However, that damage alone isn't staggering.

More from Gameplay

More by HateDaddy