Can Kha'Zix please just get his execute back?

Visigoth·May 23, 2015·102 votes·4,667 views

If he had the execute back he would 100% be viable again. That or if isolation range wasn't half the fucking map. It's so stupid that your damage relies 100% on the enemy being too stupid to be within half a mile of a minion.

Meanwhile LeBlance one shots your adc in .2 seconds and flies halfway to China with 2 abilities one low ass cooldowns with he stupid easy undo button. At least when Zed goes in on a shadow he can't undo it because he decided to 1v5.

44 Comments

A Superb VillainMay 23, 201541 votes

#How To Play Kha'Zix:

Does your intended target have a big-ass circle surrounding them?

Yes/No?

->Yes Let the enemy know to bite down hard, you're going in dry.*

->No Back off. It doesn't matter how weak they are, the most you are going to do is give them a quick scare before dying.

And that concludes the lesson.

######*Note: If the enemy happens to have more levels than you, more items, or are a teammate within walking distance, you're screwed.

TransgressorMay 23, 20154 votes

Might as well retire this thread after this response. Oh wait, how are we going to fish for upvotes then?

A Superb VillainMay 23, 201516 votes

I am illustrating a point; Kha'Zix is reliant on Isolation to do his job, which is kill high priority targets, and any team with a brain between them can effectively prevent that by using the buddy system.

That is goddamn sad. Any other assassin in the game can make a kill in the middle of a teamfight, risky as hell that may be. Kha'Zix cannot, and it is not merely up to possibility as it is with other assassins, they can accomplish that, but is nearly impossible for the Voidreaver to do likewise because of an explicit mechanic in his kit. What distinguishes Kha'Zix further from most assassins is that a target can be completely separate from a teammate with no hope of assistance, yet a single minion can effectively deny Kha'Zix the ability to unleash his maximum potential damage.

No other assassin is weighted by the same stipulations. Katarina, LeBlanc, Zed, Talon, Rengar, ie., can deal their damage without having to worry about a silly minion wandering too close and completely nullifying their damage.

To tie in this lengthy explanation with my attempt at humor, which you did not hind amusing sadly, it is best recommended that any Kha'Zix avoid confrontation unless they are absolutely, positively certain their enemy is completely alone, which means no teammates or minions.

TransgressorMay 23, 20152 votes

Why did you get agittated? I completely and wholeheartedly agreed with what you had to say, I was merely reffering to the OP as the one who rejects all logic and arguments for the sake of fishing upvotes.

What further distinguishes Kha from other assasins is that he can also level and evolve his abilities based on how the game flows. No other assasin can do that, moreso the ones you mentioned. Keep in mind a REALLY IMPORTANT FACT: Kha's the only assasin in the game that has such a massive gap closer, which does damage and RESETS on kill or assist. Only tristana can keep up with him, but she's a ranged carry, not a burst assasin. He is the ONLY assasin in the game that can initiate from such a safe and long distance away from the intented target, deal MASSIVE burst at the same time, heal, take advantage of his itemization(because he's AD he gets stuff to do with items) and then just jump back away like nobody's business.

SpecterVonBarenMay 23, 20154 votes

You have not seen the horror that is ap burst Zac.

TransgressorMay 23, 20151 votes

I've seen it, oh the agony :D

But that's braking the meta though, kha is supposed to function like that internaly.

HogsyMay 23, 20152 votes

Yeah but at the same time he doesn't have the damage to 1shot an adc in the enemy team unless he's really ahead so what's the point of being able to jump from such a distance? Zed can cover the same distance with flash + R and not only 1shot the same adc but also get back to distance. LB can 1shot the enemy adc from half the distance but still be safe. Kha'z can't do that. They need to rework the mechanic that makes him unique, not remove it.

MatezoideMay 23, 201516 votes

Much as i hated Kha getting stupidly fed on my games because my team was always roaming the map with zero vision...

You are right. Riot nerfed both his damage /and/ the isolation range, when he only needed one nerf.

Chicken4dinnerMay 23, 20151 votes

I think getting the isolation range down would be better, he is still mega strong 1v1

ArveanorMay 23, 20153 votes

only against other characters who are weak at 1v1.

VisigothMay 23, 201511 votes

{quoted}

Much as i hated Kha getting stupidly fed on my games because my team was always roaming the map with zero vision...

You are right. Riot nerfed both his damage /and/ the isolation range, when he only needed one nerf.

Not to forget removing the 50% damage reduction on his ult. Although that was pretty needed. Still dumb that 3 huge nerfs and he got no compensation. And in the same patch Nidalee got the transition into broken AD Nidalee.

NaClBatteryMay 23, 20152 votes

I actually agree with the DR nerf. Having a highly mobile assassin being able to Dive in, kill the carry, pop cloak to shrug off any retaliation, and you could do it 2 more times after to make sure you get away, that's not even considering if you took the reset on leap.

But yeah, he needs his execute damage back to be even close to viable, although I really couldn't care for the isolation debuff, I think it shouldn't count monsters or tiny minions just to give him a bit more strength as a jungler (Easier camp clearing, stronger ganks in lane) Leave turrets and teammates though, I liked the turret changes.

I think his ult needs to have a bit more utility than just a reset on his passive. Maybe something small like True Vision, or Rengar vision, (Since they are mortal enemies, seem only right they would counter each other)

but besides that, I'm in full agreement, upvoted post, hopefully it'll give it some more visibility

GavranMay 23, 20159 votes

Not that I necessarily agree with your premise but let's say you're right. How would you feel about Isolation getting the Garen treatment? After level <you're definitely not in lane anymore>, passive ignores minions.

CerbearusMay 23, 20157 votes

Direct Quote frompatch 3.8:

"Taste Their Fear’s evolution was previously reliant on having targets isolated. Now it works whether they are isolated or not, but does more damage against isolated targets, making it a more reliable choice."

Was nice they decided to evolving his Q actually useful, then in 4.9 they pretty much just reverted the change and increased isolation range at the same time! Damage on evolved Q is hilariously weak unless a target is 500 units away from EVERYTHING else (that is fricking Sivir's auto attack range).

YoungFarmerMay 23, 20154 votes

Kha zixs was the first champion I played in league almost 2 years ago, I would love to see him get buffed up to his previous glory.

Vincent LuciusMay 23, 20151 votes

To be fair his old glory was a bit over the top. I love the bug too, he's one of the first champs I grinded for out of sheer love for the concept, but we can't really make him the old mantis god that he once was. There are a few changes I'd love, maybe armor shred on the evolved w, or lowering the isolation range on his q, or like someone said above, give it the Garen treatment and ignore minions past a certain range. What I'd like to with that is maybe only make cannons stop isolation early on, since the tiny little minions aren't really all that reassuring... now a big minion that wants be follow in Tristana's footsteps, that's a downright motivational masterpiece. A true man(or woman) among minions.

JasiwelMay 23, 20154 votes

I used to main Kha'Zix in Season 2 and 3, not to mention he was my first real champion buy. I can't play him anymore. He isn't viable. They utterly destroyed his viability when they nerfed his damage and made his isolation so conditional. Sure, I've seen Kha'Zix players wreck in games...in normals games. If I spectate a high level match with kha'Zam in it, he's trashed and feeds trying to do his job.

Maybe his changes were appropriate when they were conducted, but not anymore. His Ultimate's delay per cast is outdated because it was initially instated while Kha still had Damage Reduction on his ult - the entire purpose of the delay was so he couldn't spam the damage reduction. The Execute on his Q was removed because at that time it was excessive power that wasn't necessary. Then they nerfed both the Q damage and the isolation range, so he's Elise-tier damage at best now.

Riot said when they nerfed him initially that he was a champion who's power would continually change each season given the conditions of that season/meta. Well we're here in S5 and Riot has done very little to bring our bug back into "Viable" tier.

bvcderrttyyhjjjkMay 23, 20154 votes

Kha'Zix was my main. That before:

His Q isolation range became huge, Execute removed,towers and minons count as allies.
His ult went from 50% damage reduction to absolutely zero. This effectively made any form of teamfight impossible for him as he was squishy already.
Jungle assassins are now generally useless, unless someone on the enemy team is dumb enough to overextend 24/7.
Kha'Zix now will basically lose a 1v1 with ANYONE, EVEN isolated if he does not have at least TWO items.
Anyone with a level advantage will beat him, regardless of circumstances.

Kha'Zix damage is only limited to a very specific context, that rarely happens at higher ELOs. Furthermore, he has zero teamfight potential, he is very squishy, and has definitely not enough damage compared to any other assassin. In a tank-mage meta like the one we are in, he needs back most of what they took from him to be even remotely competitive. You can outplay enemies as much as you want, you'll just not kill them and die.

4nth0l0gyMay 23, 20154 votes

"Can Kha'Zix just get his execute back?" Or, "Why youre better off with Rengar"

ArveanorMay 23, 20151 votes

take my upvote.

KazaLyn ShaoMay 23, 20153 votes

What other assassins can jump into the middle of a full team and kill an ADC besides maybe Leblanc? And it's obvious she's overtuned. You shouldn't be able to jump into an entire team and just straight up get a kill. That's the whole point. No one liked the assassin meta, because supports and ADCs had the life span of 2 seconds regardless of itemization, and high mobility assassins were all but unkillable. Kha'zix has pretty good mobility, he has a stealth, and he can jump walls. At least LB can't stealth and Talon can't scale walls without a target. Kha'zix doesn't need anymore buffs. Why people want the assassin meta back is beyond me. That was horrible.

Rinky DinkyMay 23, 20154 votes

Katarina, Talon, Zed, Master Yi...

Oh holy shit it is all of them.

"but muh cc but muh focus"

That doesn't mean shit if you have aoe lockdown on your team who initiates for you Sejuani Amumu Malphite

(Disclaimer: I am not calling assassins OP, simply making an observation. Comps like I just suggested are heavily countered by warding and good positioning)

PlushBoresMay 23, 20157 votes

Kassadin Talon Rengar

SvddenlyMay 23, 20157 votes

Akali Annie Chogath Fizz Katarina MasterYi Nidalee Orianna Rengar Riven Shaco Talon Yasuo Zed

Chespin2013May 23, 20153 votes

thats a flat out lie about leblanc it takes .1 seconds to delete a adc

DoraTheBrownMay 23, 20151 votes

she just has to look sooooooo 0 seconds to delete any1

ArveanorMay 23, 20153 votes

Eh, I don't care for the execute back, that makes him more viable with a bruiser build, and I'd honestly just rather him be made into a viable assassin, who can actually compete with the burst coming out of any other assassin.

It Hertz When IPMay 23, 20152 votes

You think you have it bad on Summoner's Rift? LB using Mark/Dash in the Howling Abyss can quite literally fly halfway across the map.

Space BumMay 23, 20152 votes

I have recently fallen for Khazix despite his weaknesses.

Ideas for a fix.

Make W reduce vision/ decrease isolation range.

Make it to where ulting automatically decreases isolation range for 2 sec.

HogsyMay 23, 20153 votes

Actually, it would be an amazing idea to remove isolation range while you've ulted. I mean, it's only like a 2 sec invis. That'd be pretty cool. Other changes would be to the mechanic itself. Like mentioned above, small minions shouldn't be used but siege and cannon minions should remain safeguards for the enemy champs. I mean, does a small minion really give protection? Naaah. Another idea would be this: If one of the caster minions are dead( So now there are only 2 remaining) you get isolated whether you're near caster minions or not but if there are still 3 soldier minions and not 2 then they protect you from isolation. So, 2 minions of each minion category(soldier and caster) don't protect you from isolation.

Schlachsahne76May 23, 20152 votes

Kha zix ganks are super weak pre 6. He is very sqishy and has, like already said, still huge problems killing people. In my opinion his ult is too weak and the isolation thing of course.

Khazix item 3070 46,8 % winrate

Chicken4dinnerMay 23, 20151 votes

Fucking hilarious, bounce this post between countries to ensure traction (pref oce I know what the boards are like there you will get traction, if you do then you can link that post with all of it's views and upvotes here)

branasceMay 23, 20151 votes

had me at first...til you over did the exageration

ChilroyMay 23, 20151 votes

The only way Kha'zix is getting fixed, is if he gets a reworked evolution system. One that isn't AD Viktor; Kha'zix should be adapting not upgrading, being a weird sustain/burst assassin (Similar Ekko, but not quite). It would be rather interesting and beneficial to Kha'zix, adding a lot of tuners to his kit making him easier to balance overall.

Right now, Kha'zix is in a spot that makes all his evolutions lackluster, and he's more of a off-tank fighter rather than an assassin (Same problem w/ Rengar). In this overall diverse meta, we need to give assassins an incentive for building burst rather than fighter or else is assassin just a word for fighter with better AD scalings? We can obviously provide more drawbacks to assassins who fail to 100-0 a target, or rather give the assassin playstyle a hit-and-run incentive (being they only need to keep poking and running, not having to entirely kill the target)

ButthurtMay 23, 20151 votes

I feel like I'm the only person who thinks he's pretty fine right now. He can easily be built as a bruiser, cinderhulk -> Tiamat/hydra -> Righteous Glory -> LW -> Finish Hydra if you didn't -> High MR/AR with HP item (Randuins, Spirit Visage, etc). Boots can be whatever, mobo if you're doing really good, merc/tabi if you need them. I find that I can easily assassinate squishies even if they're not isolated with this build and even duel tankier people (and come out on top). Of course the build varies sometimes, like getting the high defense item over righteous glory, but I feel that Righteous glory is a very good item on him.

Comparing assassins to LB isn't fair or healthy to the game. She's in a league of her own and I personally think she needs to be nerfed/changed, not everyone else get buffed to her level. LB being able to press WQRWE and kill someone instantly with a Morellos + Void staff isn't fun. Her damage needs to be moved from her W to something else, in my opinion. I think she could use a different passive too.

lDontLiftIcarryMay 24, 20151 votes

as long as khaizx Q does 700+ damage when isolated. and only 3 damage items

no thanks.

WhamBamBoozlerMay 24, 20151 votes

"Flies halfway to China" I logged in just to upvote because of that line

xu1D7eJdSiMay 24, 20151 votes

Tbh once you evolve your Q, minions shouldn't be involved in determining isolation.

FantasySniperMay 24, 20151 votes

While Tank'Zix could still be viable? It's probably not going to happen...

HobbsgoblinMay 24, 20151 votes

A few possible QoL buffs

Ult reduces isolation range while active Isolation range slowly improves with levels At a certain level, or ult level, towers don't count for isolation, followed up later by minions not counting

I'm not saying riot should give him all of these but these are good baselines I think for making him feel more assassin over time without getting to delete people so fully early game.

AltricadMay 24, 20151 votes

Have all my upvotes, the nerf to isolation killed him. I'd love to see my favorite bug come back

badoogaMay 24, 20151 votes

I would say that if he evolves his Q, minions won't apply to isolation, only enemy champions. Either that or the isolation range is decreased when evolving Q.

MaizeCrazeMay 24, 20151 votes

By execute do you mean % missing HP damage on his evolved Q? Would the execute be added on to current Q or reverted to pre 4.9 values? Regardless, That is not a change Kha'Zix needs.

Assuming Q would be reverted to pre 4.9 values, this would be a negative change. That change would force Kha'zix players to evolve Q first arguably 100% of the time because the execute works regardless of isolation. While this change would help kill tanky champs, Kha's main job as an assassin is to kill the carries. Kha did less damage to carries back when he had his execute.

On the flip side, Kha's Q did more damage to tanks than it does currently. Constant use of Q to wear down the enemy tanks requires Kha himself to be tanky: enter the bruiser Kha meta of late S3 and early S4 that all Kha mains hated and initiated the nerf bat in the first place. The tankier builds seen on Kha'Zix again did less damage to squishies.

When I think of Kha'Zix, I think of an assassin, not a champion who gets in your face and has to stay there to do significant damage.