Dashes around the fucking lane like Yasuo so you cant hit her + tankiness of a bruiser making her virtually unkillable. Hard zones you because if you go near a minion she dashes to it and fucks you up.
Hits 6 dashes to a minion stuns you for a 100-0 all in with no items. Really fair.
Hey Riot can you fuck off with these flashy new champions with crazy mobility and broken kits? Thanks.
Shukr4n41 votesIrelia has been this,way since release.
Maybe u found someone who can play het , got deleted and since u cant losr it s obviously a champ flawed. Right?
z63XnLCMwX5 votesIrelia has been this,way since release.
Maybe u found someone who can play het , got deleted and since u cant losr it s obviously a champ flawed. Right?
Old irelia wasn't tanky from the get go. You had a chance to burst her down. New irelia goes in, baits rotation with W, then proceed to delete.
Shukr4n18 votesDunno old irelia could built trinity then tankiness and.destroy u with true dmg, trinity dmg, sustain and cc. This one got same dash and.no point and click cc. But ok
TempName5484611 votesya know how old irelia Q damage to minions was
20 / 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 (+ 120% AD)
and the new is
10 / 50 / 90 / 130 / 170 (+ 120% AD)
now the part that really fucks ya up is the fact that before she would max Q last while now she maxes it first, basically at level 7 she can 1 hit casters with her Q while the old irelia would have to complete trinity force to one hit casters, also the fact she gets 2 or more dashes from her E and R now doesn't help with the argument of "she has the same dash hehexd" either, in lane she is way way more mobile than old irelia ever was, did I say lane? i also meant everywhere else.
ankoanko194 votesOld Irelia didnt max Q last ever since season 6 trinity changes.. It was the 2nd max and her W amplified her Q dmg , so she could have 2 points in her Q and a sheen and phage and W+Q minion waves would still almost oneshot it. Nevermind how it was easier to kill off minions WITHOUT sheen proccs with the old irelia before the buffs that she got this patch. AND NEVERMIND HOW THE Q BARELY EVEN DEALS HALF THE DMG THE OLD ONE DID!
TempName548463 votesOld Irelia didnt max Q last ever since season 6 trinity changes. Nevermind how it was easier to kill off minions WITHOUT sheen proccs with the old irelia before the buffs that she got this patch.
i mean this is just plain false.
her W amplified her Q dmg
her passive deals pretty much the same damage to minions as her old W.
ankoanko191 votesIt's not false, it was meta ever since 6.11 to max Q 2nd. There are literally fucking Irelia onetrick videos talking about maxing Q 2nd. Look at TF blade, ICU etc videos from season 6 (after 6.11),7 and 8 that they max Q 2nd. Dont be a fucking jackass and say ''dizs fals'' when you dont even play the champion!
It doesnt though. At level 9 Irelia dealt 75 flat true dmg + 88 physical dmg underneath her W AA WITHOUT any items. Current Irelia deals with her AA: passive deals 40.5 magic dmg dmg at full stacks + 90 physical dmg underneath. So no infact her passive doesnt deal the same damage, it doesnt ever reach 75 magic damage unless you build full glas cannon or something. The current Q barely even deals the same amount of dmg to minions in the early game, it still falls short 3-4 physical dmg.
TempName548461 votesi like how you are comparing auto attacks for memes when we are talking about mobility, at level 9 her Q with maxed W used to do 20 + 75 + 120% ad, and currently it deals 170 + passive damage + 120% ad, it doesn't even matter how many passive stacks she has she still deals more damage to minions with Q at level 9.
hell they did max Q second into certain matchup but saying that it was """meta""" to max Q second is just wrong, now even if they did max Q second it would have still been required for the old irelia to reach level 12 to deal the SAME damage with Q as she does now at level 9, keep in mind that this is with her having 0 passive stacks which is unrealistic.
ankoanko191 votesher passive deals pretty much the same damage to minions as her old W.
Oh wow I wonder why i fucking compared the dmg! No youre wrong actually. A maxed W at level 9 dealt 50 + 75 dmg + 120% ad. Current at level 9 deals 170 + 40.5 dmg (at full stacks so this needs preperation otherwise it only 10.5 dmg per stack) + 120% AD. Dont you see that even if the dmg falls short at level 9 with the old that it is still very similar. And that it can even surpass it if you just go all in without any passive stacks? And that it surpasses it level 13 when it too is maxed out? And I maybe have said this twice now but let me say it again * The old one had fucking higher base dmg to champions * . The reset doesnt matter when the CD was 4s at 40% cdr, so you could very easily deal 280 + 240% AD to champions compared to 170 + 120% AD to champions.
No they didnt max it into certain matchups jesus christ. It was fucking accepted as the only VIABLE solution UNLESS you were behind! And if you were behind as old Irelia well you were useless either way. Stop fucking arguing with me about what people maxed when I have played this champ since S4. I know specifically what people used to max and shit.
TempName548461 votes125 is still far less than 170, over 25% less for that matter, and again this is with 0 passive stacks.
it can even surpass it if you just go all in without any passive stacks? And that it surpasses it level 13 when it too is maxed out?
this doesn't matter in the discussion of mobility as shes already 1 shooting minions before that point.
And I maybe have said this twice now but let me say it again The old one had fucking higher base dmg to champions . The reset doesnt matter when the CD was 4s at 40% cdr, so you could very easily deal 280 + 240% AD to champions compared to 170 + 120% AD to champions.
not that any of this matters since our debate is about mobility and not the amount of damage she deals but its a bit unreasonable to assume that she would get it off twice in the same amount of time she does now considering her ultimate and E.
ankoanko193 votes1 shooting minions? You mean ranged creeps.. Like she always has been? Believe it or not but you cant actually 1 shoot a minion without sheen procc/tiamat AOE dmg. If you have a trinity but you dont have a tiamat at late game, you cant Q multiple times. This isnt even factoring in the fact that Irelia dealt in patch 8.14 and before 153 + 140% dmg to minions at level 9 so even if they increased the minion dmg by 30% it is still the same or even a bit less without the burst damage. Because remember, they never intended for her minion dmg to be nerfed.
Oh did I forgot mentioning that her Q has 50 less range than old Irelia and 25 less range than before 8.15? Because its pretty fucking important in the discussion of mobility.
TempName548461 votesranged creeps are pretty much the only ones that matter anyways especially considering they are the ones she uses to engage and the 3 are enough to stack her passive.
Like she always has been?
yeah she just does it much earlier now.
Oh did I forgot mentioning that her Q has 50 less range than old Irelia and 25 less range than before 8.15? Because its pretty fucking important in the discussion of mobility.
does 50 range matter in the top lane? nah, the range nerf was for bot and mid lane irelia, now before you say its a nerf to her team fight mobility she actually has tools to do shit to people she isn't on top of now to get in range to Q em.
ankoanko191 votesShe doesnt do it earlier!!! She does it earlier than patch 8.15 but before 8.15 it has always been a tool she uses to farm under turret. It was near impossible before this buff! But it scales very good in the midgame but still falls off later on compared to 8.14 and old Irelia. Which is what the entire point of patch 8.15. It was to shift her from mid/late to early game which worked quite well but the farming was near impossible with Q and you're so relient on getting them because of the passive stacks, but they fell off too quickly because you couldnt Q reliably. It was more of a QOL than something that is gonna break her. Her WR is still the same after this buff.
The game isnt only laning phase. It was quite easy to R+Q but now both of these combos are hard to do since Q has 25 less range and R 50 less range and even E'ing someone in a TF isnt as easy with 50 less range. You have to R+Flash+Q to the frontline and Q all frontliners to get to the backline, both of which might make your Q interrupted and kill you. Nevermind that catching up to people with 50 less range in a game where almost everyone has a displacement/speed boost/ dash is a pretty hefty nerf. You do feel it if you played old Irelia.
TempName548461 votesat level 9 irelia has 90 ad + 8 from d blade so her live Q deals 117 + 170 = 287 damage (377 with sheen), at this point caster minions have 330 hp.
now the old irelia? 100 ad + 8 from d blade, so her Q would deal 50 + 129 = 179 damage (279 with sheen).
the new irelia could one shoot the casters with phage or a longsword while the old irelia couldn't really even come close to one shooting them with sheen. "bu-but if i wait for sheen procs and use my w for hitting minions I can still get 3 dashes to minions!", aye you will have 1,5 seconds left on your W to actually hit the enemy champion with up to 1 sheen proc, you also miss the escape opportunity of Qing to a caster and then Qing to a melee if you chase deep.
i mean you can keep denying facts but it won't change em.
ankoanko191 votesbu-but if i wait for sheen procs and use my w for hitting minions I can still get 3 dashes to minions! Oh wow! The W fucking lasted 7 seconds. 179 + 75 = 254 dmg for 7 seconds without any spellblade (keep in mind old irelia had better base AD, i dont remember it exactly but the growth was a bit higher so spellblade was higher too) So it fell of a bit short in the early game? But how does it compare in the Mid/late game?! It's still worse, isnt it? ''B-BUT EARLY GAME!!!111'' Yeah.. Shift from a mid/late game carry to an early one. Jesus christ. Like I said its MINIMAL compared to the old one. But compare level 13 with trinity + tiamat and youll see that the old one had the edge.
It's not so weird, they gave her more resets for less upfront dmg.
Suzuken7 votesya know how old irelia Q damage to minions was
and the new is
now the part that really fucks ya up is the fact that before she would max Q last while now she maxes it first, basically at level 7 she can 1 hit casters with her Q while the old irelia would have to complete trinity force to one hit casters, also the fact she gets 2 or more dashes from her E and R now doesn't help with the argument of "she has the same dash hehexd" either, in lane she is way way more mobile than old irelia ever was, did I say lane? i also meant everywhere else.
Not sure where you got these ratios... You're absolutely delusional.
here's the actual ratios on her Q https://i.imgur.com/I8QaOgX.png
And no, She can only 1 shot caster minions if she has Sheen, and even then you have to wait for it to be up again to one shot the other one if you don't have tiamet.
Old Irelia maxes Q second not last. You only max E into hard matchups like renekton and Jax.
It seems to me that you never played Irelia to know her weakness so you're here complaining about her like she's broken or something..
ankoanko191 votesthank you! Jesus christ, guy tried to argue that you always maxed E 2nd when that stopped since 6.11
TempName548461 votesjesus christ the guy says people maxed E second when everyone maxed E second for 6 seasons and occasionally maxed Q second for one and a half seasons, how dare he!
okay fam.
TempName548461 votesNot sure where you got these ratios... You're absolutely delusional. here's the actual ratios on her Q
you are missing the part where it deals double damage to minions so you are wrong here.
well since people still don't seem to understand numbers i'll break it down for you.
at level 9 irelia has 90 ad + 8 from d blade so her live Q deals 117 + 170 = 287 damage (377 with sheen), at this point caster minions have 330 hp.
now the old irelia? 100 ad + 8 from d blade, so her Q would deal 50 + 129 = 179 damage (279 with sheen).
the new irelia could one shoot the casters with phage or a longsword while the old irelia couldn't really even come close to one shooting them with sheen. "bu-but if i wait for sheen procs and use my w for hitting minions I can still get 3 dashes to minions!", aye you will have 1,5 seconds left on your W to actually hit the enemy champion with up to 1 sheen proc, you also miss the escape opportunity of Qing to a caster and then Qing to a melee if you chase deep.
It seems to me that you never played Irelia to know her weakness so you're here complaining about her like she's broken or something..
i think irelia is completely fine right now and i actually prefer playing against her now than the old irelia but the discussion is about whether shes more mobile now or not and she clearly is so stop being buttblasted and assuming that everyone hates irelia for stating facts.
Moody P2 votesNot sure where you got these ratios
by doubling its damage. That's it works against minions?
Suzuken1 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3H73eJgR,comment-id=000000000000000100010002,timestamp=2018-08-31T09:29:21.687+0000)
by doubling its damage. That's it works against minions?
That's not how it works....
You don't double both the base damage AND the ratio... wtf is that even.... you simply add 100% to what you have on the original damage. so let's say it's 10+60% ratio that's 16 you add 16 and you get 32dmg
what you did was made the base dmg 20 and added 120% that's like 140 dmg.... you literally multiplied her damage by 400% not 100%
Go learn how to math first...
Moody P1 votesyou simply add 100% to what you have on the original damage
Which is the sum of the base and the ratio. If you're getting 6 damage from your 60% ratio, and when it doubles your total damage is 32, then you have 12 from your ratio. It's 120%.
Z3Sleeper2 votesThat's not how it works....
You don't double both the base damage AND the ratio... wtf is that even.... you simply add 100% to what you have on the original damage. so let's say it's 10+60% ratio that's 16 you add 16 and you get 32dmg
what you did was made the base dmg 20 and added 120% that's like 140 dmg.... you literally multiplied her damage by 400% not 100%
Go learn how to math first...
Nowhere in the ability does it state "base damage is doubled", it says "deals double damage", that implies all damage.
Go learn how to English first...
Now you done looking foolish by insulting people who are correct?
Sire Hippington2 votesnope, she hasn't. she relied on getting creeps low or haveing the trinity proc to get the reset, she couldn't dart around at will. Now ranged minions are more squishy, her Q does slightly more damage vs minions and she has her passive on-hit, so with a bit ad she easily oneshots ranged creeps from full, giving her easy resets with no preperation, and she has aditional resets vs champs by marking them with stun or ult. old Irelia usually didn't max Q first, and thx to tankier ranged minions and no free on-hit damage from her passive, even if she maxed it she relied on sheen procs to kill creeps from full, giving a 1.5sec cd between dashes. also, asides from ult she had no ranged aoe to prep minions. New Irelia can use E or W to get a creep wave low if her Q damage is to low to kill minions from full. Her mobillity now is far beyond what old irelia had.
Also, they upped the bonus vs minions from 70% to 100% this patch, so she indeed has alot easier acces to her mobillity now than she had last patch....
Thefrostyviking12 votesHold up.
Irelia´s winrate into melee matchups are pure shit with the exception of a few cases like shen and aatrox and the currently crippled Ornn.
Are you complaining about her spanking your ranged ass when this is what she is designed to do?
Slam Dùnk1 votesyou should add aatrox to the crippled list dudes win rate is near ornn
Thefrostyviking1 votesAh he´s nearly there too now huh?
Guess it was only a matter of time x)
Slam Dùnk1 votesjust played him at this point i honestly think there the same.
SEKAI10 votesIt's funny how her Q was finally nerfed for dominating the lane with endless dashes, but then Riot immediately reverts the nerf this patch saying "We're putting some laning functionality back into Irelia's Q". I mean, doesn't she already have more than enough, or is absolutely owning the lane from the get go the kind of "laning functionality" you're aiming for her?
ankoanko193 votesNo she doesnt. They nerfed the Q because of the burst dmg in Tf's and for her to not be meta mid. It worked but it also nerfed her waveclearing and passive stacking. Irelia is STILL nowhere near as oppressive in the laning like the old one was.
F Ù Ń6 votesIrelia takes way more skill than Yasuo, I need to last hit minions to get infinite dashes and not to mention she has mana. She also does not have a giant shield that negates all ranged damage, and a BS shield that can be earned by simply walking. Playing Irelia, I found myself running out of mana at lvl 1-11. Eventually mid game was able to spam dashes. Yasuo on the other hand, has no mana, and literally has no risk of going in, while Irelia has risks.
Fckjaxsuo43v3r1 votesLOL. So needing to last hit minions is what you call "skill"? Literally any Iron readin her spells can do that. Mana management, have you ever heard of that? Her mana costs aren't really high. For comparison, Xerath relies purely on spells to deal damage. She has around 70-120 mana costs depending on spell level on most of her spells. She NEEDS 1500+ mana just to be useful in a pre-teamfight poke or a teamfight situation, or she'll just run out of mana before dealing any significant damage. And her passive needs her to auto to get mana back just because she has so high mana costs, so she plays without a passive (old passive gave her 15% AP as armor, for comparison).
As much as I hate Yasuo, his shield I don't care about it. Just put an auto on him and wait 1 sec and the shield wears off, basic knowledge. If you rush some armor and dodge his Qs, he can't do shit to you even at 6. He needs IE to begin to deal any damage. So his powerspike is at 2 items. Buy armor and poke him out of lane. Then hope no one feeds him.
Noor Sakata6 votesI still prefer playing against this irelia more than old one somehow Idk but Old Irelia : winning a duel? dw she will press e and stun the shit out of you and kills you New Irelia : Kinda same thing but the stun is shorter and she hits it just to q again , kind of needs to hit a skillshot , still better than point click
ankoanko193 votesIrelia isnt guaranteed to win if she lands the stun unlike the old one however. It only lasts a measly 0.75s compared to the max rank 2s.
stone the blacks4 votesthe toned down her upright damage, gave her more resets and more tankiness
ankoanko191 votesThey gave her less tankiness though? 30 health level 1 for -15% dmg reduction on W.
stone the blacks1 votespre rework
ankoanko191 votesOh yeah right. She did have better base stats though
PANAGIA PARTHENA1 votesHey all, ive been playing irelia for over 3 years now, lots of her, and wanted to share some stuff since there is too much misinformation and limited understanding when it comes to Old and New irelia mobility.
I also dont play this game anymore( since i find it horrible as a whole, sorry), though i do play some games here and there when irelia is getting touched.For that reason i wont be taking anyones place, just telling my side of some things that seem incorrect.
So lets get to those things,
Firstly, old irelia maxing Q second WAS meta, not matchup related, she just needed the mobility to snowball since lane phases ended much, much earlier.R>W>Q>E was the standard.
Now to why new irelia feels, and IS much more mobile during the lane phase.
Now add these all up, plus the fact that she gets rewarded even more for resets(healing) and u can see why she is so mobile.
Now my opinion on her recent buff for anyone that cares, is that its garbage( to be expected, most of the time, from riot at this point). Makes it easier for bad players to play her( cough gotta sell a new skin cough), while also buffing her for everyone.A toxic buff that goes the yasuo route( extremely saddened by this, as i consider him the worst garbage designed for a PvP game i've ever seen, but thats another topic).
I would actually want to see the bonus damage to minions nerfed instead of buffed, to be similar to old irelia's, making better players shine, increasing her ceiling, and making way for MUCH better buffs if she actually needed them after it.That's what i would expect from a competitive game though, not some game with a top priority of appealing to masses like candy crush.Oh, wait.. At least i hope if she needs nerfs, they revert this shitty change.
They are trying to make this game competitive + have a mass apeal, by trying to make the esports scene more competitive and regular play a candy saga mess.Also connecting those 2, to increase its appeal even more.Anyway, same old riot,extremely hit and miss, an endless circle.At least their reworks are getting much much better( thank god irelia was a great one as well).
Lastly i wish to everyone still playing, that something actually changes for the better in this game, and lasts.
Suzuken3 votes[{quoted}](name=PANAGIA PARTHENA,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3H73eJgR,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-08-30T20:55:09.387+0000)
Hey all, ive been playing irelia for over 3 years now, lots of her, and wanted to share some stuff since there is too much misinformation and limited understanding when it comes to Old and New irelia mobility.
I also dont play this game anymore( since i find it horrible as a whole, sorry), though i do play some games here and there when irelia is getting touched.For that reason i wont be taking anyones place, just telling my side of some things that seem incorrect.
So lets get to those things,
Firstly, old irelia maxing Q second WAS meta, not matchup related, she just needed the mobility to snowball since lane phases ended much, much earlier.R>W>Q>E was the standard.
Now to why new irelia feels, and IS much more mobile during the lane phase.
- Q deals more damage
- Tiamat is pretty much core
- She has a ranged ability(pre 6) and more range on hers aa's, thus helping herr setup resets easier.
- More than anything else, her bonus on-hit damage is not gated by cooldowns. Previously you could only Q a minion once or twice when activating hitten style, beacuse it was your win conditions in trades/all ins.Ifu wasted too much time hoping around you wouldnt have enough damage to actually win vs a champion afterwards.Now you can freely kite around in waves as much as you want.This is HUGE.
- While her Q has 50 less rage than old irelia's, she has a ranged stun that also gives her a free reset.So she has less/more range depending on if u dodge the stun or not.That's kind of fair honestly.
Now add these all up, plus the fact that she gets rewarded even more for resets(healing) and u can see why she is so mobile.
Now my opinion on her recent buff for anyone that cares, is that its garbage( to be expected, most of the time, from riot at this point). Makes it easier for bad players to play her( cough gotta sell a new skin cough), while also buffing her for everyone.A toxic buff that goes the yasuo route( extremely saddened by this, as i consider him the worst garbage designed for a PvP game i've ever seen, but thats another topic).
I would actually want to see the bonus damage to minions nerfed instead of buffed, to be similar to old irelia's, making better players shine, increasing her ceiling, and making way for MUCH better buffs if she actually needed them after it.That's what i would expect from a competitive game though, not some game with a top priority of appealing to masses like candy crush.Oh, wait.. At least i hope if she needs nerfs, they revert this shitty change.
They are trying to make this game competitive + have a mass apeal, by trying to make the esports scene more competitive and regular play a candy saga mess.Also connecting those 2, to increase its appeal even more.Anyway, same old riot,extremely hit and miss, an endless circle.At least their reworks are getting much much better( thank god irelia was a great one as well).
Lastly i wish to everyone still playing, that something actually changes for the better in this game, and lasts.
Irelia's Q before the buff couldn't kill a melee minion with 50 hp. That's NOT ok. She needed the buff, 100% is too much tho, it should have been 80-85%
PANAGIA PARTHENA1 votesIrelia's Q before the buff couldn't kill a melee minion with 50 hp. That's NOT ok. She needed the buff, 100% is too much tho, it should have been 80-85%
You dont HAVE to have all last hits secured.Also that was for level one.You can use your 200 aa range to last hit, or be more precise, or get a more ad heavy start, and make it have a threshold to kill any minion under 50 hp, make the bonus damage scale backwards with level( still more damage later on but not oneshotting melees).
There are way better ways to fix something or buff her, than lowering her skillcap.
Lastly, i could be all wrong here since i havent actually played this patch at all, and i hope i am, since it would be a good buff if it didnt make her Q braindead .But what OP sais is the first thing that came to my mind when i read the change.
And sorry if i was to harsh, took too much for granted without actually palying, can only hope for the best, and that i am wrong.
Suzuken1 votes[{quoted}](name=PANAGIA PARTHENA,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3H73eJgR,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2018-08-30T21:52:31.526+0000)
You dont HAVE to have all last hits secured.Also that was for level one.You can use your 200 aa range to last hit, or be more precise, or get a more ad heavy start, and make it have a threshold to kill any minion under 50 hp, make the bonus damage scale backwards with level( still more damage later on but not oneshotting melees).
There are way better ways to fix something or buff her, than lowering her skillcap.
Lastly, i could be all wrong here since i havent actually played this patch at all, and i hope i am, since it would be a good buff if it didnt make her Q braindead .But what OP sais is the first thing that came to my mind when i read the change.
And sorry if i was to harsh, took too much for granted without actually palying, can only hope for the best, and that i am wrong.
AA the rest of minions isn't ideal. You need to kill 4 minions with your Q in order for your passive to be activated and it was really f***ing hard with a base dmg of FIVE on lvl 1 q.
You First passive proc is what decides if you win the lane or not in most matchups..
ParvatiShallow1 votes
Balls of stats are the worst design in league. If damage was reduced across the board then this wouldn't be a problem... Right now if bruisers get ahead they just melt squishies with no counterplay. Rinse and repeat until you have to have 2 just to hold top lane.
ankoanko192 votesIdk if this is satirical but how the fuck can you call Irelia a ball of stats champion, unless youre refering to the old one? She doesnt ''outstat you'' like Jax does with his AA she needs to hit skillshots and shit and outplay you inorder to win.
