Irelia, Aatrox, and how they mean Janna/Lulu/Karma didn't need nerfs

The Ecdysiast·Jun 14, 2018·1 votes·1,234 views

The very first thing I thought when I saw Irelia's new passive was, "wow, I sure hope this means they'll introduce an item to deal extra damage to shields like that instead of continuing to nerf shields directly." And now, we have a brand new form of debuff on Aatrox's passive: mutiliation, which is basically Grievous Wounds but effects both healing and shielding.

Either would be an effective means to give people a way to counter shield spams, but they instead went for nerfing the characters with shields. It doesn't make any sense.

12 Comments

Rayjay RedfangJun 14, 20183 votes

Nerfing duration was probably the best nerf to give. Nerfing shielding items was not however.

The EcdysiastJun 15, 20181 votes

Which has nothing to do with what I said. They shouldn't have gotten nerfs. What should've happened is the introduction of an item with Irelia's passive or Mutilation.

Rayjay RedfangJun 15, 20181 votes

Introducing an item that gives those shield damaging passive is not a good idea because it just trickles down to 'build this item of there are any shields' which hurts more champions than just enchanters. so nerfing enchanter shield duration to reduce shield spam was the best possible outcome, but nefing shield items additionally just was not needed. The items part is what had nothing to do with your point but I added it because it was relevant to this patch. If they just nerfed shield duration, shield spam would have been solved.

Warlord RhinarkJun 15, 20181 votes

Introducing an item that gives those shield damaging passive is not a good idea because it just trickles down to 'build this item of there are any shields'

Okay so I'm not allowed to build an item that negates shields but I'm allowed to build an item that negates healing?

What the fuck kinda logic is that.

Rayjay RedfangJun 15, 20181 votes

Shielding and healing are different. Gw items have their issues too

The EcdysiastJun 15, 20181 votes

I'd say, wtf is up with thinking it's any better to have no way of countering a champion with their own shield? It's actually worse for them to have no counters than it is to just nerf enchanters, since enchanters' main purpose is to protect allies. Hurting them while letting champions with AD scaling shields or shields with innate lifesteal on top remain without a counter is ridiculous.

Rayjay RedfangJun 15, 20181 votes

Self shielders( and people with shileds on ultimates) kits are based and balanced around self shields as solo laners (enchanters are balanced based on the fact that they enhance another). In order to work properly as independent champions, their shields are important in how they function. Enchanters shields are an addition to another champion. A champion being shielded doesn't need a shield to work well.

The difference between gw and an anti shield item is that shielding doesn't give sustain, it allows you to survive longer. Get is important to have as an item but their are issues with it because some kits are based on healing. Mundo for example, he is balanced around get because it is expected to be bought against him. Making an anti shielding item will require self shielders to be rebalanced similarly in response to shielding items. This whole point was talking about how self shielders have no counter. They do have counters, and their shield isn't the problem

Getting back to enchanters, the nerfs on them were bad due to item nerfs. What this patch gives is counter play to spam shields because champs that get these shields don't need the shields to function independently. Neither of the nerfs solves the core issues with enchanters though.

The EcdysiastJun 15, 20181 votes

Except for the fact the only champion for whom their shield is the core of their kit is Mordekaiser, so your claim that there are numerous champions who wouldn't function well without their shields is simply false.

Rayjay RedfangJun 15, 20182 votes

Azir Blitzcrank Camille Ekko Kassadin Mordekaiser Nautilus TahmKench Ryze Rumble Riven Ornn Poppy Shen Sion Urgot Udyr Skarner

Based around was bad wording on my part, important part of their kit is what I meant. No one has a shield as the Crux of their kit like Mundo and healing, that is just poor design.

And without their shields these champions would be lacking, some more than others

The EcdysiastJun 15, 20181 votes

You only listed champions with shields. Like I said, the shield isn't an essential part of their kits. If you'd like, I can break down one by one why each of those you listed.

Although, you mentioned Mundo being a bad design. Likewise, Mordekaiser being based around his shield is also bad design.

My point was that most champions with a personal shield wouldn't be crippled from not having it in their kits, they're merely buffed above their peers by having one at all-- since for every single case, the shields are on top of other abilities, not solely shields.

But I'll name a few who definitely should have counters to their shield because it adds more than need be, and/or in prevents them from buffing the actual core abilities of the champions because they have that defensive capability.

Riven Often bursts down her targets without needing the shield, or pokes without worry because she has a shield on a dash. Urgot Will also often kill his opponent without much damage to the shield. It's just more defense than he needs. Azir Had his knockup removed, while they opted to keep the shield that all but requires you to intentionally position incorrectly to use it. Sion Rarely ever gets to use the damage aspect of his W on an opponent because it can't be cast if the shield pops. Ryze While his shield isn't the main issue behind his 'unfair for 99% of players' nerfs, it is a contributing factor. While it's a cool concept to give him a shield when using his abilities in a different order, it prevents them from putting any power into his abilities because it would conflict with the overwhelming (if used in master or challenger) strength of his ultimate. Poppy Who, as we see, received unfair nerfs to her W's armor and MR steroid despite not actually performing better than average.

Giving us an option to cut down on their shielding would both grant more room for playing better against them, and give Riot room to buff them if they're struggling, for those who play them. It's a win-win-win situation, including removing the need for enchanters to be nerfed.

Rayjay RedfangJul 2, 20181 votes

I think you underestimate how important the self shields in their kit works with the champion overall. I main Urgot and Sion. They would be horrible without their own shields. The only way to compensate would be to add more damage and tankiness to their base stats and abilities. Urgot and Sion would struggle with trading if not for their shields, and one of the best things to do with Sion is to use his shield to both clear minions you have gotten low while damaging enemies. He has a whole e q w w combo. If Urgot didn't have a shield, when he tries to fight anyone he will just die.

Poppy shield is her way to trade

Riven shield gives her the survivability to burst and dive, and the same goes with azir

Ryze is just a mess he doesn't need a shield.

The EcdysiastJul 3, 20181 votes

As I said, the shields are holding them back.

Urgot gives himself a powerful self-slow as a way of balancing that shield, which makes it more difficult for him to position the damage part of the same ability. Hence, you say he'd be trash when I say it'd in fact give them room to take away 115 MS cost.

Sion, likewise, if his shield were reduced/had the option to be reduced by enemies, it'd open up room to allow him to have the damage part of it whether or not the enemy breaks it.

Poppy is my highest mastery champion, and she does not strictly need the shield to trade. Often, it actually serves more as a warning to the enemy than an actual chance to trade. The nerfs to her defense on top of no compensation added to the shield show they're looking for people to build her more as a fighter, though, so any points about her mean about as much as talking about Vi's shield at this point.

Riven's crowd control gives her the protection she needs during a dive. In fact, it limits the chances someone would have to even use an item with mutilator or ionian fervor. So it's mainly preventing her from getting any buffs elsewhere.

Azir, as I said, is put in a poor position by trying to use his shield. Diving the enemy is not his style. But the option for that defense forced them to remove the useful part of the ability.

Glad we agree on Ryze.