Sona is the worst support in the game

only zhule·May 12, 2016·10 votes·2,284 views

Now that i have your attention. Let me explain my logic. I am talking about Sona as a support , not her ability to be a burst mage once you have picked up Lich Bane and Echo, simply what she offers to her team as a utility support. As Sona currently exists, she is a garbage support character. Her utility is basically worthless. Bonus damage from Q can't be used against structures, it can be used up against a minion. Even if you/your ally land it against an enemy champion it's next to no base bonus damage. Her heal has horrible base value for the first two ranks. It has extremely high costs, and a fairly high cooldown thus preventing multiple use without items to negate some of these issues. Her shield requires you to be basically right next to your ally which often means that you simply can't shield them or have to run towards the enemy champions to try and save your ally (often ending up in both of your deaths). Sona's bonus movement speed lasts for such a short period of time on her allies that it often requires multiple casts to see any tangible benefits. It is also the worst skill to rank up that currently exists in the game, with it's 1% bonus per rank and 2% bonus per rank in ultimate.

To make up for horrible base values, and poor utility, Sona is required to build heavy levels of AP and land multiple instances of her utility spells for them to have any bearing on team fights or in capturing objectives. Beyond these issues, Sona is also the only support champion (classified under the support role, not just a champion who CAN play support) who lacks a form of hard CC before level 6. While level 6 does offer Sona an AOE stun it also has a very long cooldown making it useless for simple trades/ applying non-all in pressure.

48 Comments

QuephaMay 12, 20166 votes

Out of the champions that go in the support lane, Sona deals the 4th most healing. The three champions that beat her are Soraka, Nami, and Trundle.

All of Trundle's healing is selfish, it doesn't help his allies at all.

Soraka basically only contributes healing, it is a given that she would top the charts.

That leaves Nami, a champion often compared with Sona. Sona heals an average of 10376.8, Nami heals an average of 11376.36 per game, slightly less than a 10% increase. But Nami also lacks a shield built into her kit while Sona produces one of almost the same strength as her heal.

Being the 4th best at healing when the lines between 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are really blurry seems pretty strong in terms of this utility statistic. Sona may not have the most utility of any support champion but she definitely has some solid healing packaged with her reliable damage with some other effects serving as a nice cherry on top.

only zhuleMay 12, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Out of the champions that go in the support lane, Sona deals the 4th most healing. The three champions that beat her are Soraka, Nami, and Trundle.

All of Trundle's healing is selfish, it doesn't help his allies at all.

Soraka basically only contributes healing, it is a given that she would top the charts.

That leaves Nami, a champion often compared with Sona. Sona heals an average of 10376.8, Nami heals an average of 11376.36 per game, slightly less than a 10% increase. But Nami also lacks a shield built into her kit while Sona produces one of almost the same strength as her heal.

Being the 4th best at healing when the lines between 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are really blurry seems pretty strong in terms of this utility statistic. Sona may not have the most utility of any support champion but she definitely has some solid healing packaged with her reliable damage with some other effects serving as a nice cherry on top.

I'm kind of surprised that Nami beats Sona out for heals. I don't think of her using her poke/heal super actively as a heal. Where i think of Sona just spamming the hell out of her W if she has the mana for it and allies are even remotely damaged.

I still hold that she is a bad support champion though. Where other characters have an ability (that's not their ultimate) that is good for something. Be it negating damage, starting a fight, locking someone out of a fight, etc... The skill does it's job regardless if you have a bunch of items or not. Sona doesn't have that. None of her non-ult skills really do anything unless you have a ton of AP and/or items backing them up OR if you are left alone for 20-30 seconds to spam each spell 6-7 times.

QuephaMay 12, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xbjHKTQ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-05-12T07:53:54.839+0000)

Be it negating damage, starting a fight, locking someone out of a fight, etc...

W negates damage, power chord can be used for either half of an exhaust.

only zhuleMay 12, 20166 votes

{quoted}

W negates damage, power chord can be used for either half of an exhaust.

How i wish this was true in practice. A sona player will almost never use powercord on W or E, simply because they aren't worth the damage lost.

In theory Sona has quite a bit of choose and power with Powercord. But how often do you actually use the other two modes of powercord? I might see them used 1 out of 15 times, maybe less. The movement speed slow is countered by general mobility of most champions, and since you have to be within 550 range to use it you often can't tag someone who is running away (and if you stopped to auto attack when they are chasing you, you are likely going to get caught since it doesn't slow enough to off set the down time of you stopping, auto attacking, and then starting back up to run. Her W SHOULD be amazing, but again 550 range, you are naturally super squishy so you are not likely going to be in range to land that auto attack when it needs to land to negate the damage it needs to negate.

QuephaMay 12, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xbjHKTQ,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-12T18:18:27.575+0000)

How i wish this was true in practice. A sona player will almost never use powercord on W or E, simply because they aren't worth the damage lost.

A good Sona will because those are absolutely worth giving up the extra damage. 20% reduced damage on an assassin's burst is easily worth more than 76 flat damage on power chord and a 40% slow on an overextended tank will easily get more than 76 damage from letting your team catch up.

Never Ganks MidMay 12, 20165 votes

Im a Sona main, she got me to gold... she's a good support.

only zhuleMay 12, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Never Ganks Mid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xbjHKTQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-12T07:02:39.549+0000)

Im a Sona main, she got me to gold... she's a good support.

Did she get you there on the back of her utility abilities? Hell even her synergy with support items like item 3174 and item 3504 . Or did she get you there on the back of her insane item synergy with stuff like Lich Bane and Echo?

Never Ganks MidMay 12, 20165 votes

"our damage falls off late, but utility will win the game"

My core is: item 2301 item 3504 item 3060 in that order. 2 Quints are used for CDR/lvl for the last 10% CDR

Boots are situational to enemy team comp usually item 3111 item 3047 or item 3009

Last 2 item spots are situational based on enemy team comp as well, but I rarely get to these items. item 3116 to help my team kite item 3151 if they have tanks that I can help burn with the %hp burn item 3285 for extra movement speed and poke item 3102 against a heavy magic damage team

BergkMay 12, 20168 votes

lol nice instalok reference

Pika310May 13, 20165 votes

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

BergkMay 14, 20164 votes

Sooo did you watch Aphromoo play sona in the semi-finals of MSI???? Still think Sona is the worst? ;) Sona MVP! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiaDsRMUgAAiNMU.jpg

only zhuleMay 14, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Sooo did you watch Aphromoo play sona in the semi-finals of MSI???? Still think Sona is the worst? ;) Sona MVP! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiaDsRMUgAAiNMU.jpg

Yes i would still say Sona is a bad utility support. Great ultimate (if landed right), can have great poke if you go down that route, BUT her utility (minus ultimate) is really really poor.

Princess EmmaMay 12, 20163 votes

Im a Sona main, she got me to platinum... she's a good support.

BergkMay 12, 20167 votes

ummm you haven't even played a ranked game, or a game of Sona....

Princess EmmaMay 12, 20161 votes

I was mimicking what the first poster ''Never Ganks Mid'' says. Wanted to see if people moved up to Diamond, Masters etc, but no dice.

only zhuleMay 12, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Princess Emma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xbjHKTQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-05-12T07:08:35.725+0000)

Im a Sona main, she got me to platinum... she's a good support.

Did she get you to platinum as a support, with her utility abilities? OR did she get you there as a burst mage, with the wombo combo that is Q+ powercord AA+ Lich Bane+ Echo?

Princess EmmaMay 12, 20161 votes

I was mimicking what the first poster ''Never Ganks Mid'' said. Wanted to see if people moved up to Diamond, Masters etc, but no dice.

Pika310May 12, 20165 votes

Of course nobody has managed to rank up to Diamond with Sona. Her winrate and pickrate is on a consistent decline, has been since the day Gutting 4.13 first went Live.

I literally just checked her most recent winrate, would it interest you to know that w/o Echo/Spellblade, her winrate in Diamond+ currently sits at approximately ~28%. Not only is she the worst support in the game, she may arguably very well be the weakest character in the game overall.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

DelphiniumMay 12, 20163 votes

Sona q's usage is to zone the enemy bot lane out in early game because her q, passive, and tld keystone out damage the enemy bot. Her q would be over power if she could use it on structures with her passive on. Her w is on a high mana cost, low base value, and high cd because before the sona rework people just spamming it, and also balance her w ability that gains an aoe shield for her teammates in team fights which it's super efficient. Riot wants to reward players who master Sona, for who uses her w in the right time. I agree on your point in her e that it needs a buff, so they might buff the speed but lower the duration. I see Sona as a teamfight oriented support because she provides so much aoe buffs to her allies. Source: diam 4 support main who playes decent amount of Sona. Sona is not in the state of a balanced/healthy utility support, but there are experimental changes for her up on pbe.

Ap Sona is pretty fun and rewarding, but very squishy. I met a guy who plays ap Sona on a new account climbed to high diam 2 with ap Sona support.

Edit: now you call up your friends and downvote posts that against your opinion, lol

only zhuleMay 12, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Sona q's usage is to zone the enemy bot lane out in early game because her q, passive, and tld keystone out damage the enemy bot. Her q would be over power if she could use it on structures with her passive on. Her w is on a high mana cost and cd because before the sona rework people just spamming it, and also balance her w ability that gains an aoe shield for her teammates in team fights which it's super efficient. I agree on your point in her e that it needs a buff, so they might buff the speed but lower the duration. I see Sona as a teamfight oriented support because she provides so much aoe buffs to her allies. Sona is not in the state of a balanced utility support, but there are experimental changes for her up on pbe.

Ap Sona is pretty fun and rewarding, but very squishy. I met a guy who plays ap Sona on a new account climbed to high diam 2 with ap Sona support.

This is where i disagree. Her Q even with the bonus damage doesn't do enough anymore to pressure enemy champions. Unless your opponents are simply letting you walk and blast them over and over, most champion can heal enough from auto attacks and basic HP5 to negate a lot of your personal pressure.

I still hold that Sona suffers from the issue that she can't function well with a traditional support build path. Her base numbers are so low and reliant on the dream 5 man buff, that she becomes totally ignore-able if she isn't stacked to the 9's with AP / or rocking 3-4 passive aura items to make up for her lack of innate utility.

Something to keep in mind i'm not saying Sona is a bad character. I'm saying that as a support she's really lacking. I think this is proven by the fact that presently and for a long time now. If Sona is in game, she is build Lich Bane, she is build Echo. She is building offensive mage items because she just doesn't do enough as a utility character.

DelphiniumMay 12, 20163 votes

If you run ap cdr runes with tld keystone you can destroy the enemy adc in early game with q auto when they are csing in which they can't fight back. Each support plays a different role... If you don't like Sona you can move on... If you increase sona's base values, you are just building another tankko and mage.

only zhuleMay 12, 20166 votes

{quoted}

If you run ap CD-R runes with tld keystone you can destroy the enemy adc in early game with q auto when they are csing in which they can't fight back. Each support plays a different role... If you don't like Sona you can move on... If you increase sona's base values, you are just building another tankko and mage.

The issue isn't if she can do damage or not. it's that as a utility support she is bad. The entire argument i am trying to make is that her utility is very very weak (considerably better if you can do a 5 man premade where you are constantly hitting all teammates with all abilitie). The argument is that she needs a lot of AP and often damage boosting items to function. If she was viable as a stand alone mage, i likely wouldn't have a problem. If she could function well in the late game as a support, rather then a walking ultimate or burst mage, i wouldn't have an issue. But she can't, her base numbers are so weak utility wise, that she is basically forced to transition unless your team is CRUSHING the enemy.

DelphiniumMay 12, 20165 votes

So... your point is her utilities are too weak compare to other utility supports? So you want them to buff the base/per lvl heal and e moving speed? but that would make a soraka... I dont see Sona's ulities as very weak in my elo, but i rather say it's very high cost.

To me, a FQC is enough of damage/ap for an early stage Sona.

Pika310May 12, 20165 votes

It's impossible to get zoned by Sona's Q outside of bronze. FYI, as the only damage spell of the ENTIRE support class with 40 base, Sona literally has lower base damage than any other support in the entire fucking game. This coupled with the additional facts that she's also tied with Soraka for the weakest basic attacks of supports AND she's one of a very rare number of supports that only have a singular damage spell. Off-hand, the only other supports that come to mind with a single damage spell are Braum and Taric, who have 2 defensive spells instead.

With all of these combined facts, it's only a short step until you realize that Sona factually has the lowest damage potential of the entire support class as a whole. The fallacy that Sona does damage comes solely from the imaginations of bronze players that don't believe in the existence of MR runes and allow themselves to get in range of a Lich+Luden's one-two punch of fake artificial numbers that are 100% independent of Sona's kit, or rather Sona's LACK of a kit as the case actually is.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

DelphiniumMay 12, 20164 votes

I mean how is it impossible to be zoned out by Sona in high elo? You are a silver adc main that didn't play a single game of Sona in ranked and OP is a silver decent Sona main that is talking shit about Sona

You keep bring up the word bronze. I am a high elo support main that can zone the enemy bot out with sona in early game.

Pika310May 12, 20165 votes

Not only did you not read my comment, now you're blatantly fabricating lies. I too am a (ex)Sona main who has extensive ranked experience playing Sona. All of it just happens to be Season 3 and 4 Pre-Gutting 4.13. There's literally no fucking reason I would pick Sona after 4.13 when doing so is reportable for intentionally feeding.

Now how bout you stop disrespecting me and read what I actually said:

Sona alone has the lowest spell base of the entire support class
Sona is tied with Soraka for the weakest basic attacks of the entire support class
Sona is one of only about ~4 or so supports in the entire support class with a lone singular damage spell

These are all facts that you're unable to debate. No matter how many times you libel me, all of these facts continue to remain true. If ANYONE gets zoned by a Sona, they deserve to be bronze. She has the lowest damage output of the entire support class, this is undeniable.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

only zhuleMay 12, 20166 votes

{quoted}

I mean how is it impossible to be zoned out by Sona in high elo? You are a silver adc main that didn't play a single game of Sona in ranked and OP is a silver decent Sona main that is talking shit about Sona

You keep bring up the word bronze. I am a high elo support main that can zone the enemy bot out with sona in early game.

I would very much love to see a game or two of yours where you play as Sona.

You claim i'm talking shit, but you have yet to point out any examples of where i'm wrong in what i'm saying. There is a difference between a character being bad over all, and a character being bad in a certain role. Sona as a support, not a damage dealer, is really unimpressive outside of a good ult.

Do you ever feel like your damage boost aura was the reason a fight went your teams way? Have you ever felt like it was worth the risk to go shield a low health ally who was being chased or was otherwise in danger while you safe? Do you feel like the movement speed lasts long enough and gives enough bonus movement to your teammates to justify it being a skill, rather then a passive on something else? Basically, do you feel like you make a difference in a fight if you aren't built full AP burst mage, or given the whole fight to keep refreshing your auras?

QuephaMay 12, 20164 votes

{quoted}

With all of these combined facts, it's only a short step until you realize that Sona factually has the lowest damage potential of the entire support class as a whole. The fallacy that Sona does damage comes solely from the imaginations of bronze players that don't believe in the existence of MR runes and allow themselves to get in range of a Lich+Luden's one-two punch of fake artificial numbers that are 100% independent of Sona's kit, or rather Sona's LACK of a kit as the case actually is.

It also comes from the fact that Sona statistically deals more damage than most supports over the course of a game.

Statistics from Plat+ ranked games.

only zhuleMay 14, 20166 votes

{quoted}

It also comes from the fact that Sona statistically deals more damage than most supports over the course of a game.

Statistics from Plat+ ranked games.

I would argue that she does more damage because she needs to do damage to have an impact on the game.... Or she can be a walking ultimate but that's SUPER boring.

Most other supports aren't built around a poke and turns out that when you poke something like 20x more often, your over all damage looks amazing... But for a lot of the damage it's not doing much over all. You aren't securing a kill/objective with it most of the time, you aren't forcing a player out of position with it.

Sona is a great utility mage. The poke isn't nothing, the heal/shield does add up, and that ultimate is HUGE. But, and this is a big but, none of her utility feels strong or even "good" until you have pumped a bunch of levels + AP (and often tagged 2+ allies) into them.

QuephaMay 14, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xbjHKTQ,comment-id=0004000100010000,timestamp=2016-05-14T18:39:17.084+0000)

I would argue that she does more damage because she needs to do damage to have an impact on the game.... Or she can be a walking ultimate but that's SUPER boring.

Champions with kits that are better at dealing damage DO need to deal damage to be properly benefit their team using their kits, that's how the game works. Sona builds damage because she is good at using items that give her damage. Most other supports would not gain much benefit from building those damage items so they don't.

Most other supports aren't built around a poke and turns out that when you poke something like 20x more often, your over all damage looks amazing... But for a lot of the damage it's not doing much over all. You aren't securing a kill/objective with it most of the time, you aren't forcing a player out of position with it.

If only there was some other statistic that told us how useful Sona is to her team overall, like the rate at which she wins games relative to other champions... Oh yeah, there's winrate! And Sona's winrate is pretty good and has been pretty good forever because poke damage is pretty useful.

only zhuleMay 14, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Champions with kits that are better at dealing damage DO need to deal damage to be properly benefit their team using their kits, that's how the game works. Sona builds damage because she is good at using items that give her damage. Most other supports would not gain much benefit from building those damage items so they don't.

If only there was some other statistic that told us how useful Sona is to her team overall, like the rate at which she wins games relative to other champions... Oh yeah, there's winrate! And Sona's winrate is pretty good and has been pretty good forever because poke damage is pretty useful.

I would agree with you except that Sona has one issue that really gets under my skin. Since she is designed to be a support, she lacks the tools to be played Mid. Now for most supports this wouldn't be an issue, but for a support who is build around damage.... Well that's kind of messed up.

And that's half the issue, if a character is going to be forced into a position where they are bad at the traditional version of the role they need to play (utility support) but are also not given the tools to work in the position they are best suited for (poke heavy mage), you get stuck with a character at odds with themself.

QuephaMay 14, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xbjHKTQ,comment-id=000400010001000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-14T19:01:30.189+0000)

I would agree with you except that Sona has one issue that really gets under my skin. Since she is designed to be a support, she lacks the tools to be played Mid. Now for most supports this wouldn't be an issue, but for a support who is build around damage.... Well that's kind of messed up.

And that's half the issue, if a character is going to be forced into a position where they are bad at the traditional version of the role they need to play (utility support) but are also not given the tools to work in the position they are best suited for (poke heavy mage), you get stuck with a character at odds with themself.

I completely disagree with you. Having a support that supports in a unique fashion from other supports is very good for the game and makes for a unique experience. Not having the tools to be a mid laner allows her to be able to poke in a way that would be extremely toxic to the game anywhere but bot lane (Extremely long range Q given that it's also targeted).

I feel the same way about Leona who gets an obscene amount of tankiness early on that would break her if she were allowed to jungle or top, but her damage is locked away in this tag team pattern that allows her to be balanced around being tanky enough to tower dive against two enemies and still have her and her adc come out on top.

only zhuleMay 14, 20166 votes

{quoted}

I completely disagree with you. Having a support that supports in a unique fashion from other supports is very good for the game and makes for a unique experience. Not having the tools to be a mid laner allows her to be able to poke in a way that would be extremely toxic to the game anywhere but bot lane (Extremely long range Q given that it's also targeted).

I feel the same way about Leona who gets an obscene amount of tankiness early on that would break her if she were allowed to jungle or top, but her damage is locked away in this tag team pattern that allows her to be balanced around being tanky enough to tower dive against two enemies and still have her and her adc come out on top.

I could not disagree more with you about how "toxic" Sona's Q is. Sure it auto targets at 700-ish range, but it does next to NO damage from the bolts. Remember it does 40x rank per bolt on a 8 second base cooldown. That really isn't all that much damage to be tagging opponents with, and most mage/ mid champions have equal or greater range to counter harass. Other mage champions also have the benefit of a second offensive spell. We also can get into the fact that her one offensive spell can only hit two targets, thus making farming insanely hard against champions who generally can hit 4-6 minions with their offensive ability.

Sona's damage is really kind of a fake thing to look at compared to other champions. Remember that the total damage of her Q bolts is split between two targets, so while a rank 5 spell with 400 base damage sounds wonderful it's really not that strong, 200 per target - resistances. Then we move on to the extra damage that Q provides, 20-60 bonus magic damage on your next auto attack. Again alone that's a pretty piss poor damage boost given that it's used up on the first attack. Now we add in the basic damage from her auto attack, FINALLY we add in the occassional powercord. I would argue that if we had another "support" character who's kit was designed around casting a spell then following it right up with an auto attack, Sona's damage numbers wouldn't look so impressive.

But we are getting off the point i was trying to make. Sona is more or less a fine mage support, her damage while not insane is not horrible. I wish she had the tools to go mid but feel she needs either a much shorter cooldown on Q or another basic spell to manage that.

The issue i have with her is that her kit, is suppose to be based around utility focused around the entire team vs other champions who have good single target utility abilities like Janna or Nami. The problem is, that her utility is really bad. 20-60 bonus magic damage doesn't really register on most champions, the shield pops on and then pops off even if it didn't absorb any damage. The movement speed boost is simply to short lived to help almost any champion get where they need to be. none of these are helped by the fact that Sona has horrible AP scaling, if looked at individually instead of as whole team buff, This means that to raise her abilities basic utility numbers she needs to build very high levels of AP. This of course wouldn't be an issue except that supports in general are expected to function on a very low income and work while being a couple levels behind.... sona does not really do either of these well.

AWildAPKalistaJun 12, 20163 votes

Despite the fact that everything you said here is perfectly true, none of it even matters. Fact is Meddler will never let Sona be a playable character ever again. As-is, she's already never received a true buff in the entire patch history of this game and Meddler has publicly stated no less than thrice his hatred for Sona and desire that she never be a playable character. He even went out of his way to personally revert the accidental buff she received recently without bothering to wait for the next patch, that takes a deep level of hatred to put himself out just to make certain she doesn't have so much as a niche of playability. Hell, let's not forget that Meddler even attempted to convince the other Rito employees to disable Sona on the patch DJ was released, how can people know all these facts yet still deny that Rito loathes Sona?

Athenes LuluMay 14, 20162 votes

TLDR someone does not know how to play Sona.

MLDzXnRRRMay 12, 20161 votes

She is a good lane support, not that great later, because you have to transition into AP carry or you are just R button bot.

only zhuleMay 12, 20166 votes

{quoted}

She is a good lane support, not that great later, because you have to transition into AP carry or you are just R button bot.

I'm curious about this. In my experience she currently lacks the pressure to drive an enemy out of lane early, unless they let her hit Q+AA frequently and without counter damage. Her heal and shield are really unimpressive till you get some serious AP and rank into them.

She is still a great go to against champions like Janna, or Karma but against tankier supports or ADC's that can actually counter attack when you go in for your combo, she really doesn't do much.

MLDzXnRRRMay 12, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xbjHKTQ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-05-12T07:27:41.165+0000)

I'm curious about this. In my experience she currently lacks the pressure to drive an enemy out of lane early, unless they let her hit Q+AA frequently and without counter damage. Her heal and shield are really unimpressive till you get some serious AP and rank into them.

She is still a great go to against champions like Janna, or Karma but against tankier supports or ADC's that can actually counter attack when you go in for your combo, she really doesn't do much.

She doesn't Q + auto the tanky support, but the ADC. You can get zoned by Sona, if you don't wanna take dmg for free earlygame. If the tanky support goes aggro or overextends into your minion wave to protect the ADC, you can ping for a jungler to gank them...

only zhuleMay 12, 20166 votes

{quoted}

She doesn't Q + auto the tanky support, but the ADC. You can get zoned by Sona, if you don't wanna take dmg for free earlygame. If the tanky support goes aggro or overextends into your minion wave to protect the ADC, you can ping for a jungler to gank them...

Perhaps we are playing against different kind of people. It has been my experience that if i'm within the 550 range to auto attack my opponent, they are well within range to counter hit or otherwise punish me for making that aggressive play.

Pika310May 12, 20165 votes

"Free" damage? Last I checked Sona's damage isn't "free," but rather far from it. First off and the most obvious point is, it has a casting cost of a resource(mana.) By definition that already means it's not "free," especially considering Sona has the 3rd-lowest base mana of the dozen or so mage supports in the game.

Mana cost aside, Sona's Q also has the ABSOLUTE LOWEST base damage of the entire support class as a whole. Hymn is the only damage spell of the entire support class with 40 base damage; literally every other damage spell of the entire support class has >40 base.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

HigeMay 14, 20161 votes

why is it so wrong to have a support focused on more burst than actual support?, hell you have Leona who focuses on defense only, and blitz who focuses on his grab alone.

only zhuleMay 14, 20166 votes

{quoted}

why is it so wrong to have a support focused on more burst than actual support?, hell you have Leona who focuses on defense only, and blitz who focuses on his grab alone.

Because her kit gives the impression that she is suppose to be utility based. A poke that offers your team a damage boost, a two person heal that can also shield 5 players, a movement speed boost that can effect your whole team. All three of these give off the idea that Sona is suppose to be buffing up her team so they can win fights/ capture objectives. But more often then not, Sona ends up the support who is forced to transition mid game into a second APC. Let's assume Sona has low AP and your team isn't amazing and managing to land 5 empowered AA's against a single target each time Sona uses Q (or at least very often in team fights). Do you or your allies feel much stronger because they did 20-60 bonus magic damage on a single hit? Do you as a player feel good when you use your heal/shield and it falls off because the damage didn't come in during the 1.5 second up time? How about when you die as well trying to save an ally because your shield range is tiny.

Sona's auras might be fine if they worked at a larger range or were more individually impactful. But as is, her utility is weak and limited, while her range is painfully small.

As a burst mage, hell even a utility mage i think Sona is a very good and healthy champion. But as a utility support i think she misses the mark by a mile.

HigeMay 14, 20161 votes

It is not the vibe that one gets from a champion's kit, it's how you make it work, for example, old tristana, sivir, and ashe all had more AP scalings than AD ones, yet their builds were always AD based, even after having crazy AP scalings, they were meant to be AD champions.

If you want to think that Sona is an utility support then try to make it work, but don't complain when you realize that her best build is in fact a magic damage burst type.

This is true not only for Sona but for champions like Lee Sin, who begin as a sort of melee ADC and ends up as a fighter or tank, champion role curves are part of every and all champions.

only zhuleMay 14, 20166 votes

{quoted}

It is not the vibe that one gets from a champion's kit, it's how you make it work, for example, old tristana, sivir, and ashe all had more AP scalings than AD ones, yet their builds were always AD based, even after having crazy AP scalings, they were meant to be AD champions.

If you want to think that Sona is an utility support then try to make it work, but don't complain when you realize that her best build is in fact a magic damage burst type.

This is true not only for Sona but for champions like Lee Sin, who begin as a sort of melee ADC and ends up as a fighter or tank, champion role curves are part of every and all champions.

Let me pose a series of questions to you.

do you feel Sona's utility is strong. Not is she a good character, not does she do good damage, not how well does she work with certain items. Do you think that her bonuses are strong?
Do you feel that given the strength of her utility that it all needs to be gated by a 350 range aura? Would it make Sona too strong to be able to provide her buffs from a safer range?
Do you feel that her shield would be too strong if it lasted 3 seconds? no bonus to how much damage it can absorb, it simply lasts longer?
Do you think that Sona would be better/worse/ no change if she was more focused around providing a constant buff (while aura is up) rather then single use buffs. Her ability to do burst isn't changed, simply the way that she works with teammates.

If Sona worked as a solo lane mage (doesn't have to be amazing, just simply has to do the job) i wouldn't have as much issue with her. But she doesn't work as a solo mage, she simply lacks the tools to contest a lane in the early game.

HigeMay 14, 20161 votes

yes I do, the utility of killing the enemy laner. plus she has an AoE stun and quite a hefty slow, plus team haste/shield.
yes it should be gated, since it's a potential constant 5 man buff. Yes buffing their ranges by a large number (550 as her old auras) would make Sona too strong because not only can she heal/shield/haste herself at the same time, but would also be able to chill in the back with NO risks whatsoever. Imagine Soraka's current heal with 900 range, crazy right? this is exactly what you're asking.
OF COURSE it would be too strong, currently Karma and Aegis of legion are the only ones able to do a 5 man shield, Karma's is a ultimate and Aegis of legions has a steep price and the shield itself is pretty low. Sona's shields are supposed to be clutch.
I agree that the time she has to apply the effects is very short, wouldn't like it if it was constant but longer than current? yeah, often times you find yourself walking to a teammate only to find your aura is gone already, of course this has to do with teamwork, when I have a Sona on my team I try to take advantage of her zones, she's like a light post, you're supposed to walk towards her for protection.

She does works as a solo mage, seen it, done it.

only zhuleMay 15, 20166 votes

{quoted}

yes I do, the utility of killing the enemy laner. plus she has an AoE stun and quite a hefty slow, plus team haste/shield.

yes it should be gated, since it's a potential constant 5 man buff. Yes buffing their ranges by a large number (550 as her old auras) would make Sona too strong because not only can she heal/shield/haste herself at the same time, but would also be able to chill in the back with NO risks whatsoever. Imagine Soraka's current heal with 900 range, crazy right? this is exactly what you're asking.

OF COURSE it would be too strong, currently Karma and Aegis of legion are the only ones able to do a 5 man shield, Karma's is a ultimate and Aegis of legions has a steep price and the shield itself is pretty low. Sona's shields are supposed to be clutch.

I agree that the time she has to apply the effects is very short, wouldn't like it if it was constant but longer than current? yeah, often times you find yourself walking to a teammate only to find your aura is gone already, of course this has to do with teamwork, when I have a Sona on my team I try to take advantage of her zones, she's like a light post, you're supposed to walk towards her for protection.

She does works as a solo mage, seen it, done it.

I'm thinking something like a 500 range on her aura's. Far enough you have some safety, close enough you aren't effecting the team fight from a screen away.

The other idea was to make it so that so long as an ally stands in the aura they get a bonus. Aura times don't get a buff but they keep the +.5 seconds per ally tagged. Basically reward good Sona players for staying near their allies. But it also opens a split between Sona players who want to play the buff game vs. Sona's who want to be aggressive and play the poke game.

Miku Hime samaMay 15, 20163 votes

Except she's NOT focused around "burst." She has the weakest damage numbers of the entire support class as a whole. It's the players that are stacking artificial numbers on her to create artificial "burst." They only do this because Sona literally has ZERO strengths in her kit. Shit damage, shit healing, shit mobility, shit CC, shit durability, Sona is a shit champ overall.