New champ is going to be camille all over again.

Rexxiee·Jun 27, 2017·61 votes·3,601 views

Randomly tackled dashes, %hp damage and heals all over his kit, sigh.

Because walking over fucking walls isnt good enough for a ability slot, nope add a random heal to go with it why not?

148 Comments

Variks the LoyalJun 27, 201748 votes

This has been said about every single champ and rework since Camille. Let's wait until we see it in an entire game to judge.

GntexJun 28, 20176 votes

I agree! people were bitching sooo much about xayah and I would go out on a limb to say she is balanced.

undesirable teamJun 28, 20179 votes

{quoted}

I agree! people were bitching sooo much about xayah and I would go out on a limb to say she is balanced.

xayah is only balanced now that she is nerfed she was borderline broken before that she is still good now

Variks the LoyalJun 28, 20175 votes

She was only broken in the hands of people who could use her kit to it's maximum potential, not in the hands of the average user.

And that's coming from a Fighter/Tank main.

SchàdenfreudeJun 28, 201713 votes

And again, skill cap should not be considered to be an actual weakness of a champion.

ZerenzaJun 28, 20177 votes

Go into a game right now, play one of the hardest champions that you don't main, Evelynn, Katarina, Zed, Lee Sin, Riven, Yasuo, Vayne, Bard ect. See if you win that game on your own or if you get carried, skill cap is a good barrier for entry for a champion, it's not a weakness because all those champions i listed have very distinct weaknesses, trying playin Katarina into a team that has ANY Heal bot, good luck.

Big LincolnJun 28, 20172 votes

bard's not hard

Auz the RipperJun 28, 20175 votes

Bard is hard, just not mechanically. His difficulty comes from the sheer amount of judgement you need to use. He's the only champion up there who has the capability to directly cause his allies to die

ZyniXJun 28, 20173 votes

This is a trend where people assume decision making isn't a skill. That's where all the tanks are ezmode crap comes from.

TwinkieProJun 28, 20179 votes

Remember when Rakan was OP?

Me neither.

Variks the LoyalJun 28, 20174 votes

But a lot of people said he was.

dark100dark100Jun 28, 20173 votes

Op when your team is ahead. Op in 5 men teams, who can coordinate. Weak in soloQ, especially if the team is behind.

Malicious MetalJun 28, 201734 votes

Would be a shame if he had to choose which benefits he gets, right?!

THE RlVER KlNGJun 28, 20172 votes

Darkin form is better than Assassin form.

And you get the dashes, healing, terrain walking, and %damage all in one as well- Darkin.

You just completely ignored the point of the post.

chipndip1Jun 28, 20173 votes

But assassin form gets a projectile W that doesn't delay his movement and his wall walk gets like double the fun and his ult gets increased range so he can chase down even extremely slippery carries and supports.

Also, the Darkin form isn't a true tank, more like a fighter. It's also moderately reliant on life steal, so the assassin form is better against GW than the Darkin form.

WildstyleJun 27, 201726 votes

i know right for fucks sake new champs kits are so overloaded

TelosenJun 28, 20174 votes

And I'm just sitting here playing Xin, trying to get to Diamond. Every other champ seems so ridiculous to me. Seems like eveyrone else these days has ridiculous damage or %max health damage while I'm just trying to auto attack people the good old fashioned way.

IronwallJacksonJun 28, 201712 votes

Xin isn't a good example of champion design though. His entire kit is super binary and you succeed and fail based on stats and decision making, without any real need for mechanical skill.

Pierce The VealJun 28, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Xin isn't a good example of champion design though. His entire kit is super binary and you succeed and fail based on stats and decision making, without any real need for mechanical skill.

Ah, the good old fashioned argument to gut and obstruct all playstyles that involve right clicking besides that of an ADC's.

Strategy and decisin making value has gone so out the door that sheer mechanical skill can make up for it. There's no room for mind games any more. There's no room for check and checkmate. Just #outplays, win teamfight, get objectives, win game. Don't worry, in case you couldn't pay attention to the objectives, we literally plastered it everywhere so you remember to get them. Don't worry, I know you never knew wards existed and felt like the enemy was hacking when a single person placed 5 wards for vision control, so we removed purchaseable wards and instead put in free limited trinkets.

And now it's all about how fast you are and not about how smart you are. Nowadays you don't really need a brain to do anything, just a good hand will do.

IronwallJacksonJun 28, 20173 votes

Allow me to rephrase my argument then. In any given engagement, Xin's success is largely based on his ability to properly engage and then subsequently outstat an opponent. As a result, he has so little room to outplay or be outplayed that expression of skill on either side is largely nonexistent.

Xin's kit is shallow enough that your victories often come in spite of his kit rather than being aided by it, and that's not good.

Big LincolnJun 28, 20173 votes

lack of mechanics isn't a bad thing, and that's not really his problem

chipndip1Jun 28, 20173 votes

Yes it is his problem. Or rather, he's so much down that path that it actually is his primary problem.

Big LincolnJun 28, 20171 votes

maybe that he's too extremely low mechanic

but there are plenty of well designed champion's who trade mechanics for emphasis on decision making

chipndip1Jun 28, 20171 votes

I can't think of any that really strike me in this day and age.

Big LincolnJun 28, 20171 votes

yorick, Illaoi, tahm, bard, taric, most of the supports

chipndip1Jun 28, 20172 votes

Yorick: Desperately needing buffs.

Illaoi: Off the radar entirely.

Bard: Weak as a support in most cases.

Tahm: Insanely oppressive to top laners to the point of rapid fire nerfing. Really only good in pro play now.

Taric: Even more off the radar than Illaoi.

Supports generally: Way too 1-note, making it easy for some to be overbearing or lousy. Rakan, Nami, Braum, and Bard finally break this trend, but Riot hasn't gone back to get any of the OLDER supports out of it, so it still feels sort of "bleh".

TranozeJun 28, 20172 votes

they're all certainlyT champs.

ThilmerJun 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

i know right for fucks sake new champs kits are so overloaded

No new champ is complete with less than 4 passives, absurd mobility, spontaneous healing, and percentual damages.

Powercreep in all the glory of the concept.

ParoeJun 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

No new champ is complete with less than 4 passives, absurd mobility, spontaneous healing, and percentual damages.

Powercreep in all the glory of the concept.

You do realize that champions without mobility and waveclear are bad right now right? Unless theyre supports or long-range marksmen? You also realize that riot has moved %HP damage away from tank busting and uses it much more for "i do damage to everyone" right? The fact that the darkin form has such good %HP damage and low base damage shows this; He is meant to be useful on the front lines no matter how behind he is.

Its good design, %HP damage BEING the base damage instead of having something like poppies 300+24% maxHP damage or vaynes silver bolts.

ThilmerJun 28, 20173 votes

{quoted}

You do realize that champions without mobility and waveclear are bad right now right? Unless theyre supports or long-range marksmen? You also realize that riot has moved %HP damage away from tank busting and uses it much more for "i do damage to everyone" right? The fact that the darkin form has such good %HP damage and low base damage shows this; He is meant to be useful on the front lines no matter how behind he is.

Its good design, %HP damage BEING the base damage instead of having something like poppies 300+24% maxHP damage or vaynes silver bolts.

So you are telling me that new champions are designed to be extremely powerful in the meta, forcing the meta to stay the same during even more time. That's bad game design.

Also, percentual damage will always cause a balance problem. Putting it in the kit of a champion only makes the problem worse.

RalanrJun 27, 201723 votes

Junglers tend to need sustain. Especially those designed to be junglers.

Edit: I don't like him at all but the heal isn't random and not the worst part of his kit.

SkiasJun 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Junglers tend to need sustain. Especially those designed to be junglers.

Edit: I don't like him at all but the heal isn't random and not the worst part of his kit.

Ad champs don't need sustain built into their kits when you can itemize it. That's the problem we have with fucking fiora. It stacks because they will build it anyways. In fact, it would make AP jungles suck less if AD jungles couldn't just infinitely farm.

RalanrJun 28, 20177 votes

AP junglers would suck less if AP junglers actually had sustain in their kits. AP junglers all fail around the first clear, the clear where you can't build items.

SpecterVonBarenJun 28, 201711 votes

Fiddlesticks Has sustain, still sucks.

RalanrJun 28, 201711 votes

Fiddles in general sucks.

JSTIN8Jun 28, 20173 votes

i remember looking at the jungle changes at the start of the season and thinking about how bad fiddles would be if they went through. And here we are.

SanKakUJun 28, 20172 votes

It's interesting because I think Karma has a hard time in the jungle as well even though her W only works on monsters and champions.

SpecterVonBarenJun 28, 20172 votes

That's not even it, AD champs in the jungle don't need sustain because they inherently have better clears than both tanks and mages which is why their jungle item is just a stat stick, because they don't need anything else to get through it.

SkiasJun 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

That's not even it, AD champs in the jungle don't need sustain because they inherently have better clears than both tanks and mages which is why their jungle item is just a stat stick, because they don't need anything else to get through it.

AD champs definitely need some sort of gate in the jungle since Tanks are just slow as fuck and Mana based champions are also slow. Granted, their regen just got increased so maybe riot noticed that AD champs were too good as well. AD champs have a large advantage in this game, generally speaking.

SalronJun 27, 201712 votes

Nothing will ever be as bad as Camille Considering part of his kit is locked away by evolution like Kha, he won't be too busted

Knowing Riot though, he'll either have overtuned numbers or they'll overbuff him after release

Automated RivenJun 28, 20178 votes

You haven't played very long if you think release Camille was bad.

TwinkieProJun 28, 20173 votes

Anyone remember Kass or reworked skarner?

fun times.

NymzoJun 28, 201712 votes

Yeah I remember when everyone said Rakan would be OP alone.

Good times.

Big LincolnJun 27, 20172 votes

i think they should remove his Q dash tbh

just unnecessary, and makes the ability less cool

RalanrJun 27, 20174 votes

Though then it'd just be an Hecarim Q more or less.

Big LincolnJun 27, 20171 votes

i don't think it's spammable, but tack-on dashes are a really quick way to make a spell boring for me

personal opinion, obviously

RalanrJun 27, 20172 votes

I'm not saying it's spammable either, but I feel it'd just be a lot like Hecarim's Q without the dash.

Not defending his design, just thinking.

paisyJun 27, 201713 votes

I mean, he's an assassin/diver who's also a jungler so he kinda needs it

ParoeJun 27, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I mean, he's an assassin/diver who's also a jungler so he kinda needs it

Hes an assassin. By that definition he needs at minimum two mobility; One to get in, and one to get out.

Edit since people also seem to have missed this; riot has moved away from %HP being a tank-buster stat and using it much more as a "this champion is effective against everyone" stat

paisyJun 27, 20172 votes

Q and E