Why Karma is Considered a VGU

Deathfall··12 votes·7,756 views

Karma has a lot of problems. Her relaunch 5 years ago didn't solve problems and didn't really improve the champion. While she was considered to be the very first champion to receive a VGU, Karma was used as a lab rat for future work on champions. Riot didn't really care whether or not it was successful or unsuccessful. If this Development team cared at all about this champion during the process of her relaunch and the five years after that, they could have worked on the champion to make her better. Unfortunately that was not the case and Karma has remained in a state of delusional fantasy by this Development team that thinks her kit, theme, and art is fully conceptualized and polished.

The community and this Development team ask for detailed posts. This community and Development team doesn't want to hear hard facts and evidence that proves this relaunch was a massive failure. Here you go:

  • KIT - UNSUCCESSFUL

The number one problem with Karma is her kit. Karma had charges on her Mantra abilities that made them more usable. She had a cone heal, shield bomb, Karma-like passive, and CC that was better than what we have right now. While the old Mantra abilities were fairly weak in comparison to today Mantra abilities, they at least made more sense than what we have today. All of Karma's new Mantra abilities fail in comparison to how the old ones fit more with Karma. The current Mantra abilities all fit different play-styles but don't necessarily tell us who Karma is in this game and what she is supposed to be doing.

Karma's old kit did have its problems but at the same time the current one didn't solve an issue. Karma's problem ever since the relaunch is her direction. What is Karma supposed to be exactly and why doesn't she have a kit that reflects that? Before her relaunch she was played more in the mid-lane and top lane. Even the Development team that worked on her 5 years ago admitted that she was more successful and played in top and mid lane. Karma has a directionless kit that isn't very reminiscent of what players like about her 5 years ago.

This champion has remained one of the most numbers buffed champion in LoL for years now and is only meta when something is overpowered in the itemization or her shields. It is always nerfed and and reverted a few months later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MonC8imv9fo

  • ART -

Karma and her art is a walking disaster. It was changed at the last minuet, during the relaunch, because of public backlash about her dress and fans being removed. We are left with a champion in a sorry state of appearance because of poor decisions that didn't have the community in mind. The Development team did feel really bad about removing her dress and fans, but they give us art that is poorly executed by today standards. Her entire presence in game is very static, she has barely any VO or any original VO for that matter, Karma still has no shield casting and running animation, and her outfit is a cross between what looks be be a compromise between a dress and battle attire. It doesn't work.

In the early states of her art they did have really good concept art. If the Development team was going to remove her fans and dress then have the work ethic to back it up with a fully conceptualized idea. None of what they actually turned out the way they wanted it to. We have Developers like Ghostcrawler, Meddler, and Reav3s say she is perfect and the idea image of what they want her to be. In reality it is is mess and not very polished. If the Developers think this is a good representation of their art teams abilities, they really are as bad as the balance and update team.

The fans were removed for a mantle of Decorum that is very static and doesn't move with Karma. The dress was removed for an outfit that just isn't very appealing to look at. If the Development just polished the entire direction they wanted to go with Karma in the relaunch, it would be acceptable. Unfortunately that will never be the case and her art will not get looked at because in the eyes of most of these Developers, Karma's art was a massive success. Below are some early concepts for Karma during the relaunch. As you can see it didn't turn out the way they wanted because of their work ethic.

https://img00.deviantart.net/9994/i/2013/153/6/e/karma_rework_riotzeronis_by_zeronis-d67l7um.jpg

http://pre06.deviantart.net/0e21/th/pre/i/2013/243/4/d/karma_thumbs_paul_kwon_pkfire_by_zeronis-d6kgas5.jpg

  • THEME -

What is Karma's theme and direction in this game? She didn't technically have a resonating theme before the relaunch and still doesn't' have one. The new lore didn't exactly explain that either. The relaunched kit didn't really explain that either. The current art doesn't really explain that. If you ask someone who plays Karma occasionally they will say Karma has great shields, she has great early damage, she has a really OP W that heals her . . . . but this champion does it better. If you ask someone who Karma is in the lore, they wouldn't be able to do that because like everything else on her it is incomplete and hardly worked on. If you ask a player what they remember the most about Karma's art they probably wouldn't be able to tell you anything.

Before the relaunch, and to a certain extent, players knew what was amazing and iconic on Karma. What players remembered about Karma was her fans, shield bomb, dress, duchess title, and so much more. Over the years that was taken away by the relaunch and Developers like Ricklessabandon. There is absolutely nothing exciting, noteworthy, creative, and liked about current Karma's theme when she doesn't technically have one. I mean even the Developers said that they didn't expect fans to be so upset about losing her dress, shield bomb, and fans.


The real point of this thread is to point out what the relaunch did to Karma 5 years ago, what further work has been done on Karma since that five years, and what to expect with this mini-rework. No amount of work that this Development team does is going to make this champion more appealing, better to play as, fully conceptualized, and amazing that a VGU would solve. Nothing has been really done to revert horrible art, kit and thematic changes since the relaunch. Nothing has been done to communicate exactly about what is wrong with this champion in depth. When a Developer like Meddler makes a comment that Ezreal deserves a full VGU before Karma, then there is a problem. When Reav3s make a comment that Karma is a fully conceptualized champion that is amazing, then there is a problem. When Ghostcrawler fails to realize that Karma actually hits no pillars on what makes a successful champion, then there is a problem. What it boils down to is that there is a massive problem with this Development team that thinks the relaunch 5 years ago was successful and fully conceptualized, because it wasn't.

To wrap this up . . . Do I and the majority of the dedicated Karma mains feel like this mini-rework is going to put her in a amazing spot and really round out the entire relaunch? No. It isn't going to do a single thing that a VGU wouldn't solve. In reality this Development team is not going to work on her art, theme, lore, direction and most likely nothing in her kit. The mini-rework is destined to fail because the Developers didn't solve the main problem with Karma and that is her direction. The current kit, art and themetaics put on Karma didn't make her better and the work following the relaunch didn't make her better. The relaunch actually took everything that was liked about her away.

17 Comments

IxtaliKing10 votes

That concept art was perfect

Queen Sansa1 votes

and we got a half assed product

IxtaliKing1 votes

It's genuinely hurts me so much when I see it

SilverSquid3 votes

The upcoming work on her is gonna be "LeBlanc/Rengar" level. Considering both of those were mostly reverts, we can at least expect some old to return to her, most probably the shieldbomb.

Sure, her thematics, her animations, her lore, her voicelines will still be lacking, but at least once I hope for a net positive. Even the current bandaid "buffs" are kind of a joke. But then again, they have been done by ricklessabandon, who just left Riot, so that's something to consider.

I just wonder why there's always this "Old Karma vs New Karma" conflict. I like new Karma, in theory, and I think that there is so much good potential in her old kit, that I just can't help but wish that designers would just sprinkle some of her old awesome into her new kit, to make it less bland....

She lacks a real passive, so why not take inspiration from her old one? W is such a boring spell, so why not improve it with some enchanter qualities like the old one? RE is only problematic since the removal of the damage, so why not go back to that?

Those would be easy improvements to please old and new Karma fans alike...

SanKakU2 votes

I didn't play LoL at all I think when the old Karma existed, but I like the current one just fine. Perhaps they could bring the old one back in a special game mode that brings back old versions of champs. My guess is she was actually overpowered like they claimed Sejuani was before her latest rework. Sejuani wasn't overpowered though and IMO is unplayable in her current form. And some people claim to think the current Karma is unplayable, but she seems fine to me. Sometimes you get troll inting on her team but as long as you pick her to counter pick Yasuo or some other champ she does well in lane against then she gets the win for you without too much effort.

alekzu2 votes

At this point idk if I should just quit LoL. With what Akali turned out to be I don't think I trust them a successful mini VGU(a la Aatrox level). So I'll take the mini-rework for now. [sg-kiko]

chipndip12 votes

What's wrong with Akali?

alekzu1 votes

Nothing except her reworked W. I used it more for overdramatic effect. And even though I did have small issue with her reworked shroud it's gone for now after it was pointed that she is only untargetable but still revealed.

Qazsarea2 votes

While I agree with you that her theme is heavily underrepresented and confusing in her character, I do heavily disagree with your criticisms about her art. I personally adore her art. It was one of the things that made me want to play her so much; she was gorgeous and her kit could be used safely and with distance between you and the enemy.

Admittedly I don't have an emotional attachment to old Karma. I don't personally know what she was like before and how her abilities and theme fit her.

I agree that her current them is . . . questionable. All she has is a biography that says she is powerful, but can't use this power. An officially pacifist character in LOL is not a good move. Her abilities are not particularly explained, though the shield can be seen as reasonable and I'm perfectly happy with mantra in terms of how it fits her design.

I'm not a pro (or even that good of a) player so I can't comment much on her kit, but I do agree that she is very item number dependent, which is a shame and an issue I hope they fix, because she's really fun! I play her as a support and she brings a good amount to the table in poke and keeping her bot partner safe through shield and speed buff.

I personally feel that a large/total rework to her lore and some messing with her abilities will fix her. The biggest issue she has is that her theme/direction is not clear or at worst, contradictory.

Cowgirl Ed2 votes

lmao 2018 and still having faith in Riot GAMES I feel sorry for you OP

TheMysticWar1 votes

Pretty much everyone in the traditional skinline were the lab rats just look how there isn’t a Traditional Sion or Fiora

Wild Geese1 votes

Could she stand another rework? Sure but you probably won't like it, she is so underplayed she would get the Aatrox treatment and keep nothing. Pray for buffs or a mini update, not a VGU.

SilverSquid1 votes

You mean Riot would rework her into a character, that doesn't look like her, play like her and lose all well known characteristics of her old self in an attempt to please the masses while shitting on the old fanbase? Gee, I couldn't even imagine that happening.

No, but seriously, I can very much relate to the current Aatrox situation, but I don't think they realize this is exactly what happened to her in her VGU. I mean, at least he has finished animations, lol.

Wild Geese1 votes

{quoted}

You mean Riot would rework her into a character, that doesn't look like her, play like her and lose all well known characteristics of her old self in an attempt to please the masses while shitting on the old fanbase? Gee, I couldn't even imagine that happening.

No, but seriously, I can very much relate to the current Aatrox situation, but I don't think they realize this is exactly what happened to her in her VGU. I mean, at least he has finished animations, lol.

I would not count on the old Karma coming back, there's a lot of reasons they wouldn't. She had one of the lowest winrates in the game, and one of the lowest playrates in the game. Combine that with the rework being 5 years old, they'd be playing to the smallest group of people; Karma mains from 5 years ago. I'm not saying you're wrong and the champion mains should always be considered when making a rework, or what's the point? But riot is going to feel completely justified for the reasons I mentioned.

But asides, that they did this Aatrox rework, where they deleted Aatrox and made a new guy, shows they have learned nothing. If you see the interview with Riot Jag, he takes all the criticism about the rework and ignores it. They have yet to learn their lesson about doing reworks that are not faithful to the champion regardless of how much they are played. I think it'll take them screwing up a popular character, as not many popular characters aside Warwick had a rework (and they didn't mess him up), if they took away that champs identity there would be so much backlash.

But I'm not sure it would happen, they are just lazy if the character isn't popular. This new Akali rework for instance, they invited Akali mains to the riot offices to play it FFS, they seemed to really care A LOT that Akali mains were happy! For them to pull out stuff like Aatrox around the same time really shows Riot's true colors with reworks. Respect the champion and playerbase - if it's popular enough that they'll get shit for it.

SilverSquid3 votes

I would not count on the old Karma coming back, there's a lot of reasons they wouldn't.

Did I say or imply that? As one of those Karma mains from 5 years ago, I don't even want that, lol.

But asides, that they did this Aatrox rework, where they deleted Aatrox and made a new guy, shows they have learned nothing.

That's my point, yeah. I find it funny how many salty Aatrox mains say "well, don't wish for a VGU, they might delete her like him", when that already happened, lol.

It's confusing though. Up until Aatrox I was very convinced that they at least TRY to stay faithful to their source material. Swain was great, Irelia was a bit iffy, Akali is great again... I wonder how Nunu does? Do you really think it's all about how popular characters are? Morde was a failure, Galio was visually confused, WW was great, Poppy was great (even if a slight murder), Sion was great,...

Wild Geese1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wild Geese,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2mI5V7fL,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2018-07-18T10:26:28.842+0000)

I would not count on the old Karma coming back, there's a lot of reasons they wouldn't. She had one of the lowest winrates in the game, and one of the lowest playrates in the game. Combine that with the rework being 5 years old, they'd be playing to the smallest group of people; Karma mains from 5 years ago. I'm not saying you're wrong and the champion mains should always be considered when making a rework, or what's the point? But riot is going to feel completely justified for the reasons I mentioned.

But asides, that they did this Aatrox rework, where they deleted Aatrox and made a new guy, shows they have learned nothing. If you see the interview with Riot Jag, he takes all the criticism about the rework and ignores it. They have yet to learn their lesson about doing reworks that are not faithful to the champion regardless of how much they are played. I think it'll take them screwing up a popular character, as not many popular characters aside Warwick had a rework (and they didn't mess him up), if they took away that champs identity there would be so much backlash.

But I'm not sure it would happen, they are just lazy if the character isn't popular. This new Akali rework for instance, they invited Akali mains to the riot offices to play it FFS, they seemed to really care A LOT that Akali mains were happy! For them to pull out stuff like Aatrox around the same time really shows Riot's true colors with reworks. Respect the champion and playerbase - if it's popular enough that they'll get shit for it.

Well I think for Poppy and Sion unfortunately (and Taric), their old kits were just so bad, like insanely bad that Riot completely doing them over was actually justified deleting them. There's actually a point to be had here, they were justified because really, those champions belonged in Dota not League (and I'm sorry if any old Sion mains read this, but play Wraith King or Sven in dota they're more up your alley...). But the problem is beyond those few champions, nobody is or was so bad that they required a total deletion. I think Riot got the wrong idea "so why don't we just delete Aatrox, and Galio, it worked so well on those others champions that weren't popular!".

While pretty much ignoring that like, Aatrox did have some quality gameplay. Maybe not the best, could had been improved but wasn't actually badly designed. Galio had more flaws but he wasn't so flawed that he needed to be scrapped. Maybe 50% of him..

I really hope at some point they change their philosophy changes on reworks. I'm curious to see how this Ezreal "mini rework" goes because maybe it will show they've found a different way to go about it.

Crumbster1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wild Geese,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2mI5V7fL,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2018-07-18T10:26:28.842+0000)

Combine that with the rework being 5 years old, they'd be playing to the smallest group of people; Karma mains from 5 years ago.

I haven't even played LoL for 5 years so I have no idea how she used to be, but she somehow ended up as my main for my first ranked time. Love to play her still, and she is still my second most played champ but unfortunately I ended up in bronze and to climb was way harder with her than Morgana or Janna. So for ranked she got put to the side, cause I just couldn't even try to carry with her while other teammates fed if I didn't somehow end up fed as support (lol sad) or well... I never succeeded very well.. was just easier to go more offensive/supportive to someone who could carry with Morg or Janna if shit went tits up.

Kinda sad that she just isn't able to quite pull it off if the other team gets overpowering, bouncing back just isn't there like on other champs. Or I'm just shit lol (off point she was my first level 7 Mastery <3) Either way I think she's super fun to play and I do like the Winter Wonder skin, I would love if I could get some better foothold with her in ranked too tho.

Also I'd love a visual rework of Karma at least. She looks somehow outdated and dull compared to most other champs, cheap compared to that holy smokes art in this post. I mean this post is what? 6 months old and I only ended up here cause Holy Shitstain does that art look awesome af!

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