Assassin Update rant

Śhunpo··5 votes·519 views

It's funny what you write sometimes haha....Anyways, here's something I wrote before Ardent became a living nightmare. A lot of this is quite dated, however it still addresses what it sets out to address, being assassins.

As a Kat main, the rework, while fun, still doesn't fix her core issues, in fact it makes them 10x worse. Katarina is still useless for her team, while Rengar, Talon and LB are WAY more useful as a whole. I could rant on for days about how they fucked up, but I'll do something better. But on the note of Kat, they made her too niche' overall, like sure it's nice, but it still doesn't make her any better overall (though this Kat is better for outplaying). Adding more counterplay to already existing counterplay makes no logical sense to me. Instead of changing everything entirely, why don't they simply NERF the things that require nerfing and hard buff champs which don't offer much and/or don't contribute to the meta. For starters, tanks have to be tanks for the WHOLE game, not bruisers which are bar unkillable, yet deal your entire HP pool as DPS or burst, simply because they have CC and high mixed damage. Another thing, add in more MAGIC PEN. items, as since the meta is dominated by tanks and utility items+champs, there needs to be additional ways for the likes of Katarina and Akali (AP assassins) to counterplay this, without being utterly useless due to it. The only options Kat has to beat tanks in terms of items are Abyssal and Void staff, both of which don't fix the problem. Liandrys is not good on Kat since AOE damage cuts the damage in 1/2 and the she still can't flinch tanks. Exhaust also needs some fine tuning, as right now it kinda gives too much for a targeted "disable", and it also reduces resistances for some odd reason.

As for the other assassin changes, K6 is still busted, if not even worse. AD Shaco got butchered, and Fizz actually got viable (which I'm fine with). Akali I'm fine with considering they're promising to rework her entirely, so I understand why she only got a softcore treatment.

Also, yeah....they say "Assassin update", yet they released Redemption, a broken support item which basically is a huge fuck you to damage dealers all around, and get this, it does, wait for it....TRUE DAMAGE to enemies AND heals allies. Yeah....this was not a healthy decision for the game at all.

Shyvana getting some tweaks was nice, she's finally viable again, woop-dee-doo, about time.

Vayne-wise, instead of fixing the problems with Crit items they nerf her instead because she is "too strong". Wrong, Vayne herself isn't strong, it's the build which is the major problem, it's too efficient, and Warlord's is currently waaaay too good for ADCs all round. Also, no Jhin nerfs yet? Very surprising considering his impact on both competitive play and solo q play. Karma was also left untouched, which is extremely surprising since she had an 84% pickrate in worlds and an above 75% winrate in said worlds. Not a good decision at all, especially considering Redemption is her bread and butter item now along with Athene's.

Jungle wise, Runic echoes and Cinderhulk are still the most prevalent smite upgrades, and blue smite is next to forgotten when Red smite is better in almost every single scenario. The whole changing of the jungle was also un-needed, bar Raptors, since the raptors were honestly the only thing deserving of change, due to mid laners valuing them so highly.

I honestly think the true "Assassin update" will be Camille's release, since good god does she look good at picking off and murdering squishies. (boy was I right)

My honest opinion, revert the Rengar rework entirely, it FLOPPED big time, it didn't increase his skill ceiling (the sheer opposite actually) and it turned him into a hard to balance piece of shit. Revert the Kat changes for the most part, but keep her auto reset and Ult changes, since they're healthy. Depending on how it goes I would say to keep the Leblanc changes, but maybe revert the Ult change since it's not exactly optimal, and too gimmicky. Shaco HAS to be reverted, that "rework" honest to god butchered him. Fizz is fine. Ekko's was needed. Talon's should stay, since it hit pretty spot on for what Riot wanted and what the players wanted, except I'd say to speed up how fast his W returns. Redemption needs a hard nerf, the item is far too overstat'd already and its active is just flat out broken. And finally, nerf Courage of the Colossus. With all of this done I honestly think assassins will be in a decent spot ^_^

18 Comments

PokladnicaZla3 votes

Or nerf ADCs and combined with the the preseason changes assassins are back on track. How about we actually give assassins skill expression like Eve has? She's probably the least QQ'd assassin in the game,cause she's actually healthy to play as and against? Unlike Rengar pre-rework.

Śhunpo1 votes

{quoted}

Or nerf ADCs and combined with the the preseason changes they're back on track. How about we actually give assassins skill expression like Eve has? She's probably the least QQ'd assassin in the game,cause she's actually healthy to play as and against? Unlike Rengar pre-rework.

Well....I think any class would be overloaded with enough buffs, and ADCs certainly got the longest end of all the sticks known to mankind. It would be nice if assassins were given skill expression, however Eve's only works because it doesn't particularly change how she originally worked before the rework. With someone like Rengar however it was a drastic change for the worse.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Rengo has issues depending from which site you look. If you play Rengo you don't his current state,because he's too clunky. On the other hand,if you play against him you're the opinion he's healthier noe than pre-rework.

If you want Rengo to be viable,you gotra look at both sides of the coin.Just reverting Rengo back isnt really healthy solution to make him healthy and keeping him the way he's now doesn't do him any good.

Śhunpo1 votes

{quoted}

Rengo has issues depending from which site you look. If you play Rengo you don't his current state,because he's too clunky. On the other hand,if you play against him you're the opinion he's healthier noe than pre-rework.

If you want Rengo to be viable,you gotra look at both sides of the coin.Just reverting Rengo back isnt really healthy solution to make him healthy and keeping him the way he's now doesn't do him any good.

Right, so would you say that other champions are not more oppressive than Rengar?

What about Tristana, Twitch, Kog and Xayah? Would you not argue that they're unfair to play against? Because they play VERY smoothly and players are rewarded for playing them.

Rengar was turned into a one dimensional champion who really doesn't have any redeeming qualities for picking him besides the fact he's Rengar, which some Rengar veterans believe is enough to pick him since they have an undying love for him. Sure, he's fair to play against now, but honestly League isn't about having champions which are fair to play against, it's about having an interesting game with strong characters. Rengar IS NOT strong in his current state since he's far too clunky and he provides far too much counterplay to the average player. There's a limit to how much counterplay a champion can have and Rengar, LB and Kat have far too much right now.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Xayah is fine tbh.Might be a bit overtuned with the recent changes,but I dont find her to be problematic like Twitch,Tris and Kog.Making Rengo OP again,just cause they're OP is like getting a gun to reduce gun violance.

And he wasn't one dimensional before? How? Late game he just jumped/one-shooted someone in less than 1 sec and died.

League is about having fun overall.Sure people want to climbe the latter and do well,but there so many people playing casually,sticking to normals and having fun.The characters dont need to be strong,they just dont have to be shitty or downright broken.

You seem to have the wrong impression on Rengo.Too much counterplay? Like you can miss Q and E? That seems pretty fair and compared to some champs,that's a decent amount of counterplay,but it's far from too much.Rengar's issue is his W and that he needs some number tweaks. And pls never say Kata has too much counterplay,cause the constant Shunpo guves me seizures from it.If were to buff her even slightly she would just become a top pick over an patch.

HongChongDong2 votes

As a fizz main, I completely disagree and have disagree'd with the rework since it released. It actually cut down his damage significantly and opened up a massive amount of counterplay to his kit. It completely destroyed his late game because of it due to his inability to teamfight properly, and the worst part is that it didn't even fix any of his previous design issues that he'd been suffering from in the first place.

The fact that it was half hearted and potentially only done to knock fizz down a few pegs is more or less proven by the fact that they never touched his passive. A passive mind you that goes against a large number of their "Design Philosophies", makes no sense in modern league, and statistically makes no impact at all in the game.

Penns2 votes

The rework wasnt good because its not Fizz anymore. He lost his DPS spell, which was supposed to be his gameplay identity, he also lost his "in and out" playstyle and really isnt a "Trickster". Maybe having 2 mediocre dashes was a lot when he was released 6 years ago lol. It also didnt get rid of Fizz building tanky.

But it did make him more viable because it basically made him into a utility champ. You arent an assassin anymore and you arent a trickster, but you can ult someone (probably a tank because carries wont get hit xd) for a 5 second lockdown and engage with it, which is pretty good. You can also split and wave clear if you can use your E without dying.

Fisher No Chains2 votes

Uhm, your description reminds me of another champion... Like my beloved main ruined to be a burst/chain bot mage.

Rengar, Fizz and LeBlanc are probably some of the worst reworks I’ve seen. They butchered their identity and it seems that they don’t give a flying fuck about them, despite their attempts to work on LB with little to no success.

The assassin update as a whole was a complete failure except for 2 champions. We had those braindead support items released in the same patch (or maybe a bit later, I don’t remember) when assassins got their delays because of “counterplay”. Their delays got DOUBLED that patch because of supports being overbuffed and assassins being changed to something that isn’t even close to what an assassin should be.

/rant

Śhunpo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fisher No Chains,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2ltqyZQx,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-18T14:58:42.520+0000)

Uhm, your description reminds me of another champion... Like my beloved main ruined to be a burst/chain bot mage.

Rengar, Fizz and LeBlanc are probably some of the worst reworks I’ve seen. They butchered their identity and it seems that they don’t give a flying fuck about them, despite their attempts to work on LB with little to no success.

The assassin update as a whole was a complete failure except for 2 champions. We had those braindead support items released in the same patch (or maybe a bit later, I don’t remember) when assassins got their delays because of “counterplay”. Their delays got DOUBLED that patch because of supports being overbuffed and assassins being changed to something that isn’t even close to what an assassin should be.

/rant

Yeah, that's what I didn't understand. They called it the "assassin update" and yet they released Redemption and Courage of the Colossus in the same patch, which essentially invalidated most of the reworked assassins. Redemption still does tbh.

That's another thing I have an issue with. Support items as a whole are far too efficient and waaaay too overstated compared to other items. Not only that but there's a huge variety of support items catered to almost every single situation. However, if you were to talk to a support player they'd adamantly disagree since they don't want their favourite role balanced out with everyone else.

Kringkasteren1 votes

Dude, i am a support main and i not her to tell you that assasins aren't useless. but you're focusing at the wrong things. redemtion has a 2.5 second delay and works best on readable engages preemptively. on the other hand locket or face of the mountain or knights vow, are items that require no time. these items are a little shit to play against, but you need them to make sure that carries dies for their mistakes, and not just an assasin having no counterplay. what most of these items' problems are: too cheap. the fact that you can get these items as roles where you have 5k more gold is not fair.

another thing, most of the supportmains in high elo are threshplayers, players that from skill climb the ladder. but those support that doesn't require any thought and yet ruins the most for assasins are not teh protective tanks like braum. but rather insta silence lulu with poke, healing, shields silence slow, and onhit dammage. or janna. and now that they gave so much free dammmage in runes, they actually do more dammage than many,

The assasin rework was a complete failure, if you look at leblancmains or rengarmains reddit page, everyone wants them to be reverted. i can speak for leblanc; thye made her a mage with mobiliy, with boring slow gameplay, and now brains neede(you don't need to do any planning and you allways have free escape in lane, no need to lasthit minions and you get a free ward on a low cd, and your R now gives you free clone, usefull.) she is utterly cancer, and riot knows that she was better the old way, but meddler seems to have no interest in reverting her and wont give any updates, and wont give much information to discussing leblanc mains.

Śhunpo2 votes

{quoted}

Dude, i am a support main and i not her to tell you that assasins aren't useless. but you're focusing at the wrong things. redemtion has a 2.5 second delay and works best on readable engages preemptively. on the other hand locket or face of the mountain or knights vow, are items that require no time. these items are a little shit to play against, but you need them to make sure that carries dies for their mistakes, and not just an assasin having no counterplay. what most of these items' problems are: too cheap. the fact that you can get these items as roles where you have 5k more gold is not fair.

another thing, most of the supportmains in high elo are threshplayers, players that from skill climb the ladder. but those support that doesn't require any thought and yet ruins the most for assasins are not teh protective tanks like braum. but rather insta silence lulu with poke, healing, shields silence slow, and onhit dammage. or janna. and now that they gave so much free dammmage in runes, they actually do more dammage than many,

The assasin rework was a complete failure, if you look at leblancmains or rengarmains reddit page, everyone wants them to be reverted. i can speak for leblanc; thye made her a mage with mobiliy, with boring slow gameplay, and now brains neede(you don't need to do any planning and you allways have free escape in lane, no need to lasthit minions and you get a free ward on a low cd, and your R now gives you free clone, usefull.) she is utterly cancer, and riot knows that she was better the old way, but meddler seems to have no interest in reverting her and wont give any updates, and wont give much information to discussing leblanc mains.

As said, the rant is quite dated. I do agree though, the cost of support items is the main area of concern.

HongChongDong1 votes

Fun gameplay right? I think you yourself actually said it in a comment: "Atleast I'm assassinating the f*** out of these minions".

MihneatheMaster1 votes

You forget that tanks are the counter to assassins. They need to be able to kill them or assassins wouln't have counters (and btw I'm not a tank main).

Śhunpo1 votes

{quoted}

You forget that tanks are the counter to assassins. They need to be able to kill them or assassins wouln't have counters (and btw I'm not a tank main).

Yeah, I can wholeheartedly agree with that, and this became ever worse for assassins following the tank update which allowed tanks to well....be tankier and have more peel/CC.

Nut on my Butt1 votes

Katarina is strong af right now and she was strong af right after the rework too lol

It'll honestly be lucky if she doesn't get nerfed

Śhunpo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Daddy Issues,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2ltqyZQx,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-11-19T03:15:11.751+0000)

Katarina is strong af right now and she was strong af right after the rework too lol

It'll honestly be lucky if she doesn't get nerfed

Kat's not the issue here, Electrocute is. Also, Kat pre-rework was not strong since the meta was dominated by tanks/juggernauts and self-peel ADCs (as per usual).

Nut on my Butt1 votes

{quoted}

Kat's not the issue here, Electrocute is. Also, Kat pre-rework was not strong since the meta was dominated by tanks/juggernauts and self-peel ADCs (as per usual).

I literally didn't say anything about pre rework kat I was talking about immediately after her rework before the dmg and cd nerfs to e happened.

Also, things like runes and items don't typically get nerfed when certain champions are noticeably better at exploiting them than other champions who are also intended to use said rune or item.

Śhunpo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Daddy Issues,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2ltqyZQx,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-11-19T08:47:54.542+0000)

I literally didn't say anything about pre rework kat I was talking about immediately after her rework before the dmg and cd nerfs to e happened.

Also, things like runes and items don't typically get nerfed when certain champions are noticeably better at exploiting them than other champions who are also intended to use said rune or item.

Nah, Electrocute is just universally broken since the damage value is far too high. Sudden Impact is also a universal issue in terms of runes and I'm guessing it will be nerfed along with Electrocute.

Yeah, immediately after her rework Kat was good, but I'd argue that she was the most balanced she ever was back then since she was viable yet not on the forefront of the meta, she was just...okay.

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