It just feels kinda bad to have a sort of bad jungler who isn't very good at objective taking versus an experienced jungler which just kind of wins them the game because more pressure and more objectives gets games won. I just feel like the jg is TOO impactful rn
Weathered6 votesIt's difficult to put jungle in a position where it is not overwhelmingly impactful when a good jungler plays, simply because the aim of the role is influencing all the other lanes on top of managing objectives like dragon. If you start to tweak the role to have less influence, suddenly they are not impactful enough to have a viable ability helping lanes and will switch to power farming (if you remember the devourer meta a while back). Then rises the issue that jungle isn't doing what jungle is supposed to, and instead is just a sleeping position to be powerful late game.
korg0231 votesbut i like sleeping position,i want to just farm and chill all day :D
TheSingularity1 votesGiven this only became a more prevalent issue in the last 2 years (jg has always been vital, but now more than ever), the solution is jungle monster tweaks.
Due to the inability for many to solo drake early, long camp respawns, fatter camps (punish slow clear junglers for failing ganks) and far less vision than previous seasons. A gank fest is all that remains for anyone. So the player who can go "that lane will push back towards me on its own, I'll wait", "they won't have it warded in 60 seconds", "their jungler will be here, let's counter gank/jungle" or "this gank is a waste of time, I going to gank X instead" faster, more proactively and more efficiently than the other will be the better jungler. These are hard things to improve on, as trial and error are the only ways to do it. Game sense takes a really long time to get a good grasp on in relation to your skill rank. The answer to a bad gank opportunity is no longer "go back and farm farm farm" because riot changed the jungle to stop that.
Too often I find that lanes aren't good enough to be worth ganking (not bad players. Bad circumstances): lane is shoved in (Don't wanna risk a dive), we won't come out on top, one of us will die, they're really hard to catch with a gank/kill, they warding too well ect. But my jungle has been fully cleared, I've used my wards, killed scuttle and now I quite literally have nothing to do. I could invade, but depending on the champ it may not be an option. And if I do, can I make it worth the risk?
There's no longer a choice between power farming and ganking. You gank or you lose.
So. Revert jungle changes. Give the buffs their minions back to slow down the stronger champs and speed up the weaker AOE ones. Reduce respawn times so farming isn't an impossibility and for the love of god give us more vision.
Weathered2 votesFirst two paragraphs are spot on, but I wouldn't want to change back to smaller respawn timers for jungle camps with a farm option. There are still definite choices when a lane isn't normally gankable. You can spend the time getting deep wards, invade the enemy jungler (along with the laner who ideally would roam down into the jungle with you because their lane is pushed), or set up a lane gank that capitalizes even further on the lane being pushed in, as it will bounce back and you'll have an even better ganking opportunity being already behind them in a lane bush.
It may be personal bias, but I've found that the recent jungle environments put a lot more emphasis on actually knowing the real methods and tactics of jungling rather than simply doing what's available (gank, if no gank, farm, if no farm, back, etc.). Because of this, if you are a "good" jungler, you can thrive a lot and really make a difference from having good macro game. If not, you are forced to learn how through that trial and error because it is no longer a simple answer of going to farm and going to gank, its a puzzle more-so.
Dukues5 votesYou average as much cs in mid as I do as a jungler...... maybe work on that before blaming your jungler?
How often do you ward enemy jungle and help your jungle collapse on the enemy jungle? How many times does your teammate get invaded and you just sit mid or roam bot like an idiot while enemy takes your mid turret for free? I bet a lot seeing as you have high kill participation but super low cs. Great.. you might get some kills on those roams but then you better freaken carry since you just gave up mid turret and pressure and gave enemy mid + jungle (and team) a large advantage.
There is so much to the game to learn and perfect. Yes... jungle has the most reach since you have most impact on objectives and can influence all lanes. But it definitely got nerfed and maybe it still a little op but.... all lanes can have impact. Hell... I would argue this season is actually the most even I have seen the game as far as each role having an impact. Seems like they almost all 20% (not quite but close). I remember at the start of the season when adc was useless. Now it's farily strong. Yea... last season most top players in challenger were junglers, but don't think that's the case now.
Tl, Dr. Yes jungle is strong but so is mid and other lanes. Your in freaken mid silver..... there is SOOOO MUCH more you can do to win games. Wasting time blaming junglers is just that WASTING TIME.
Weathered1 votesHe wasn't attacking the role nor was he blaming jungle, OP was just pointing out that a good jungler has a lot of room to make an above average impact on the game. There's no reason for you to immediately jump to attacking his playstyle and literally looking up his stats on a 3rd party site.
Dukues2 votessomeone good in any role can do that...... plus it's pretty damn relevant to look at this stats. It's one thing if its some Diamond+ person saying it. But when its someone mid silver (which trust me I know silver) I know what mid laners are like. Yes... junglers suck... everyone sucks. But saying role op because OP has such a small understanding of the game should also weight in.
Apocyliptic3 votesJg is way too strong this season. ADC's were never useless that was a reddit circlejerk that turned into a meme.
You gonna rank bash me as well?
MorsCertum4 votesI just find it hilarious hes rank bashing a mid silver when hes barely gold 5 xD
Succubús GF3 votesLOL
Dukues2 votesJg is way too strong this season. ADC's were never useless that was a reddit circlejerk that turned into a meme.
You gonna rank bash me as well?
that's why adc mains were struggling to climb k. Now they on top of the ladder. Just saying its dumb to attack a role because op doesn't know much. If your mid laner is completely outclassed by enemy mid it's pretty damn hard to win isn't it? What about fed enemy adc? Or top?
You can't just argue in terms of when you have a teammate get completely outclassed. If you play a game when junglers are evenly skilled then what? They literally have a very small impact or at least no more than anyone else. Just because the role can impact the entire map doesn't mean it's op all roles can do that.
Succubús GF1 votesShow me where I was blaming junglers? Edit- CS wise my cs isn't the best but its not bad. 150 past 20 minutes Is good
Moooose34 votesPeople say every role is too impactful. Confirmation bias is a bitch.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesNobody ever say this about top [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]
The Deckowner2 votesIt just feels kinda bad to have a sort of bad laner who isn't very good at laning versus an experienced laner which just kind of wins them the game because more gold and more objectives gets games won. I just feel like the laning is TOO impactful rn
RlP K0BE2 votesWhen the season started you guys complained about junglers being able to farm without much ganking because jungle camps gave too much. Now camps have been nerfed so junglers need to gank and take objectives to help get gold.
Lmfao.
Dukues1 votesMeh either learn to jungle like a boss or piss off. If you had the balls you would just play jungle. Jungle is changed every season while everyone else may get an item change or two and couple new meta champs. Learn to play your role and watch out for enemy jungle and hey HELP YOUR JUNGLER. Then maybe you won't suck so much.
Glory ln Death2 votesWow, this is your second needlessly aggressive comment attacking the OP. Someone's got some real anger issues.
Dukues2 votesOr? Just pointing out the obvious that OP doesn't know what he/she talking about. Dude has 700 games played in silver. I know his type I am basically him. Quickly looking at this stats made it beyond obvious why he thinks jungle super strong. When you have kids who just randomly roam, randomly let lane get pushed in, and don't look at the map they just think the only reason they lose lane is becuase jng. The only reason they lose obj is because jng. The only reason they lose game is because jungle. Just pointing out that's not true at all.
Glory ln Death1 votesOther people have explained why the jungle role feels strong without feeling the need to aggressively insult the OP in multiple comments. Surely there's a better way to convey your thoughts without telling them "piss off", "if you had the balls", "maybe you won't suck so much", "you just sit mid or roam bot like an idiot", and general rank shaming?
Something to think about.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesFrom my pov, all roles are more or less balanced... except top lane. From Toplane point, i mainly win when my bot is decent... not good, just decent. If they don't create a monster usualy its playable.
Yeah jungle are very impactful, but all role have their responsability (top inclued).
Xion The XIV1 votesI don't really think so. A good Jungler is only as good as the Laners. I just had a Game where our Diamond Mid Jhin was completely curb stomped into the ground against their mid and just started blaming me for him not warding. When I ward river Bush for some reason he decided to ward the same sided bush.
Anyways I had a 1/8 Jhin completely bitching at me when I was JG Eve and I helped other lanes. Problem was Mid was feeding their Enemy JG and Enemy Mid to a point I couldn't not even try and gank without death. Yea Jg can help snowball lanes, but if your laners are complete garbage people all the help in the world will not do a damn thing.
Daizumi1 voteshttp://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2524115208/45285535?tab=overview
To be honest I beg to differ. This game is an example of a game where I ganked and got 6 kills early, put my team ahead and tried to get objectives. The opposing jungler didn't do anything for the first 10 minutes and yet my team still found a way to feed. Granted I did get the kills but they lost their lanes without any jungle pressure what so ever. Every game isn't determined just how good or bad your jungler is verses theirs. In this game I think i was the clearly better jungler but we still lost. Does this happen all the time? not even close the rest of the team still needs to be decent, especially mid.
OHminus1 votesAs I jungle main, I often find that it's on my bot lane for us to win/lose. If bot loses 2v2, gg. There are way too many strong adcs atm (Draven, Twitch, Lucian, Caitlyn, etc)
Jungle does influence lanes early on, and can be impactful mid game. But in late game 5v5s, even as Vi, locking down the enemy adc is pretty hard because of all the sustain they have (death's dance, anyone?)
Rockm Sockm1 votesI think it is more apparent for mid because they have to have great synergy with jungle.
You can easily lose lane from collapsing to help your jungle over and over. You have to work together to ward and control river.
My only complaint about jungle is catch up xp shouldn't exist.
There is no penalty outside of counter farming for ganks.
Jmman1 votesnope find this true from bot.
What jungle puts the most pressure on the lanes will ALWAYS win. I have notice that for the past few weeks. True every game.
