@Meddler: Agency

Woook3r··2 votes·705 views

"I don't think you can give everyone more agency. I believe its pretty intuitive that agency is actually a conserved quantity, what you give to someone here you must take from someone there."

You are exactly right. Which is why I have been arguing for years that you need to remove two players from the game in order to make it more manageable. SR wants to be a 4v4 map because there are 4 sources of income for each team. 3 lanes of minions and 1 jungle of monsters.

The support role is actually broken. Supports like Zyra with 0 cs and who are behind by two levels have more power than some solo laners. Please sir. Put your glasses on. Youve overbuffed support due to their lack of resources. You did this because those players deserve to have impact. However, the role they are playing does not deserve to have that impact because it isnt funded and because they arent even participating in the most important game mechanic. Farming. And you in order to give them the power they currently have, you had to take away from the adc who put spends the whole game working really hard to last hit with auto attacks.

But the supports power is essentially FREE power, imo. It tilts me a little bit every time I see zyra with 0 cs outperform the adc in both single target and AOE dmg and utility and range and roaming. People are talking about mages bot lane like its new. But ever since the mage rework, zyra has been dominating. Im not bemoaning support playstyles and support champions. Im bemoaning this gold and exp starvation tactic that somehow still has the power to outcarry anyone else in the game. In what world does that make sense?

You need to think a little more about the conserved agency idea and why we have a game with 5 players, but only 4 map positions. Given that agency is conserved, can we really afford to have an extra player?

5 Comments

Hige1 votes

counter ideas:

  1. Add one more player, make the map 6v6 and have two supports, one top, one bot

  2. Split support players in two lanes, by connecting top and bot through the magic of portals, supports would be able to travel all the way to top in order to either heal them, gank or relieve pressure from a gank

I seriously believe that subtracting one player from the game would be more detrimental to the game health overall, because even though there's only 4 lanes, supports do have a place and they have thrived for a good reason in the game, they are a source of CC and peel and even the AP focused supports offer these qualities.

Kilanost2 votes

I love this thinking. it could be a portal top lane in that middle bush that you have to stand on to capture like the skarner crystals. When its captured it flashes to show who owns it and it can be used 15 seconds after being held. That would be fun AF and make for so much strategy. The idea that the supp could so easily roam between lanes would make support a lot more fun too.

On top of that they could undo the nerf to botlane turret because lane swapping wouldn't be such a ridiculous thing to deal with. As a result, turret first blood would be harder and bot lane would be less of a clown fiesta.

Hige2 votes

I made this thread a while ago but it didn't get any traction: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/npVNblRu-weird-idea-for-summoners-rift

I think it would also be healthy and would share bot's agency with top making the whole bot clown fiesta situational

Woook3r1 votes

the supports can go mid lane. or top lane. you arent removing supports. you are removing a person playing the game and you are removing the gold starvation "strategy"

Woook3r1 votes

Also, you seem to have missed the fact that jungle camps are MUCH harder for an adc to farm. Meaning that when Bard item 3117 takes my tower and somehow has the power to 1v1 me at 0 cs, I still have to risk walking up to minions to farm. Because both krugs and red and raptors can destroy me.

Now, I used to have a really reliable game plan to win with ashe in my elo. I would max my q and rush bf and runaans. Then, during the portion of the game where I am ordinarily getting picked off while farming enemy minions, I would rotate through my side of the jungle while waiting for the lane to push right under my tower. I want some explanation as to why that strategy had to be nerfed.

According to my understanding, w max and essence reaver meant that ashe's laning phase was too strong to allow her to have a late game. So you nerfed her q when you could and should have nerfed her early w max builds, imo. As someone who played against it, THAT is her only way to win with those builds. She would keep me at <75% hp with w spam and stifle the lane with her w range. You couldnt even get on her for a positive trade because of the w dmg and follow up from the support. So shes naturally hard to lane against. Then a jungle gank would work very well for her to start snowballing on her own post 6. I agree she was too tough in lane, but she was exactly the adc I want 25 min + and there are very few of those atm.

I maxed Q and felt like I was unable to be aggressive, but could come out even on an aggressive opponent because of my slows and the ability to extend minion aggro through slowing my enemy. Better enemy players would have made it work though. I was playing from behind until 25 min when my farm numbers and ability to start fights gave me the edge.

Im not sure why you took that from me so that you could give us w spam ashe. Theres no game plan behind that. Its just more micro during lane. Ashe's w needs to be a one point wonder for an increased slow and so that she can deactivate bard's mobi boots when he gets obnoxious. Im not sure why you want to give her an ability that can work offensively and defensively in lane when her kit is really better off at 25min+. I thought it was great that she was defensive early and then offensive later. It felt like I was holding back the enemy and then pushing them back and I would just do what I could until I could carry because her kit is really muddy now. I dont feel like theres any point at which I can really carry. Or even farm. Im a useless tickle dmg bot + my R.

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