Oh yeah forgot to mention the aoe reseting true damage execute, because we totally needed more of those.
What a great design here riot, instead of making a REAL support you release this powercreeped 0 farm assassin garbage, lmao, congrats for increasing the power creep.
Jamaree5 votesHaving to go in to do most of your damage and deny your ability get out to combo effectively = safe?
Rexxiee1 votesHaving to go in to do most of your damage and deny your ability get out to combo effectively = safe?
His W doesnt do damage bud.
Stealth with 60% ms boost THAT heals him sounds like a good escape to me.
UnboundHades1 votesHis W doesnt do damage bud.
Stealth with 60% ms boost THAT heals him sounds like a good escape to me.
its a decaying ms boost and his only way in or out of a fight is his e since if you try to w out you are just gonna be caught and killed
AnAggravatedPimp4 votesWith no wave clear as a solo laner, no hp scaling so forever squishy and in order to be immune to poke against any team with decent ward coverage has to zone himself from xp.
And let's not forget his ult that p much makes him hide in the background of fights because if he gets stunned once he pops. Or he casts it and it misses because it's X shaped.
Rexxiee2 votesWith no wave clear as a solo laner, no hp and in order to be immune to poke against any team with decent ward coverage has to zone himself from xp.
And let's not forget his ult that p much makes him hide in the background of fights because if he gets stunned once he pops. Or he casts it and it misses because it's X shaped.
Except if hes playing in a duo lane all those "weaknesses" dont exist.
His laning is taking a trade and pressing W to undo all damage you did to him, its so cancer.
AnAggravatedPimp3 votesExcept if hes playing in a duo lane all those "weaknesses" dont exist.
His laning is taking a trade and pressing W to undo all damage you did to him, its so cancer.
Early game he only stores 30% of damage taken, which isnt that much and his W ends if he takes any action meaning he vanishes, sits there or runs away, then reappears slightly healthier after using a skill that has a decently long cooldown
Kats Pajamas1 voteshis E has like 100% scale and is aoe, how does this not count as waveclear?
The 'pyke isn't a tank' meme is getting old. Maybe learn to compare base stats instead of basing your entire conclusion around him being banned from buying effective hp.
He has the single best, most single tanky, defensive base stats, of any charatcer in the game. "he cant buy HP!!!!" well, this is true, but he also has the 4th highest at level 18 hp, with the 1st highest armor and MR rating in the game. He finishes 4th most hp, with the most armor of any champion. All champions, even HP based ones, lack resistances, so the fact his effective hp is fine without being able to buy hp, because everyone has too much hp anyway.
lol you think his W is a minor effect or what?
Ralanr2 votes2400 HP at Max that can’t be higher due to items isn’t that tanky.
Rexxiee1 votes2400 HP at Max that can’t be higher due to items isn’t that tanky.
As if any other assassin or damage dealer that arent mages go any higher than that.
The champ literally has more hp than a black cleaver riven at lvl 18 for absolutely free.
Ralanr2 votes2300 my mistake.
I can’t say wether a lot of champions build HP higher than that. What I can say is that this is intended because he can’t increase his HP at all.
Are you saying that a champion that can’t increase his HP outside of leveling should have a shitty base HP despite other champions with lower pools having the option to build beyond it?
Vekkna1 votesAre you saying that the champ with highest non-tank base hp in the game (by a large margin) who can stack hp/resist items as AD items should be referred to as "squishy?"
Ralanr2 votesConsidering his health to AD ratio is actually supposed to be poor so that he should build AD to get most of his AD, I wouldn’t say that his full HP builds are super damaging.
I’m not saying he’s squishy but I don’t find him that tanky. There is such an in between isn’t there?
Vekkna1 votesThe beginning of this comment chain says "no hp scaling so forever squishy." You didn't say that, but it's the context.
My point is that Pyke can build resist items with damage effects and get AD from them. If Zed and Pyke build Randuin's, they both get the armor, active, and crit resist. They end the game with approximately the same hp. But Pyke gets AD from it.
Obviously, Pyke will be pretty trash if he does that in every slot. The reason it's significant is because the really strong tank items (Visage, Randuin's, Adaptive Helm) are sort of balanced by the offense sacrificed in that slot. But Pyke essentially gets the item's hp in his base hp, then gets some 20-25-ish AD from the item.
Most assassins will have 1 or 2 hybrid AD/resist items with Maw and/or GA. If Pyke uses one or two slots on Adaptive Helm + Randuin's (alongside, like...duskblade, ghostblade, and DD), he ends up being substantially tankier than a comparable assassin using AD/resist items or using Pyke's build.
Kats Pajamas1 votesgoogle how effective hp works, realize all hp is inflated, realize resistances are better, realize pyke has good resistances(the best actually) then realize he has the 4th highest base hp, so you MUST build hp to have more than him, then realize all the % hp damage in the game and how useless hp stack is, then realize the efficiency of hp verses armor...at what point is this champion not tanky just because you think hp=tank? You think his hp growth being comparable to galio is low? And to keep context this is the quote I responded to:
"no hp scaling"
Just flat out incorrect, here take a glance at this: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions/Health
As you can see, he is the 4th best scaling champion, thus why he is the 4th highest base hp.
Pyke is % damage reduction ability away from being a legitimate tank, this is why Aftershock is obviously a common rune choice for him, as a close replacement.
Ralanr1 votesI did not say he has no HP scaling, I said he cannot get HP from items. Of course he’s gonna get durable mainly from resistances (which makes aftershock better on him) but while resistances are effective, we have a lot of shred in the game. Outside of botlane, he can get shredded easier.
This means his stronger in lane. Which, given that he’s an assassin makes sense as most AD assassins are bullies.
Kats Pajamas1 votesWhat I am just trying to conjecture to you, is that the amount of gold you need to maximize effective hp for his base HP, makes the fact he cannot buy HP almost irrelevant for a long period of time. Like 30-40 minutes. He can frontline for the entire first half of the game, for free.
He may not have a 'tank move' but if he gets fed, he is more tanky than tanks normally are to burst damage(without conditional abilities etc.) (especially if it's against level advantage, in this meta it's huge for Pyke to have levels)
Because he cannot build hp, his largest weakness is true damage, but that's it- to magic and armor he is noticeably tankier.
Edit: Also, unless it's % shred, it's not countering armor. Armor counters flat pen types.- Armor also counters % damage. That is until they are multipled with % pen, so then it does counter armor, (but normally much later into the game) and (normally at a cost the player doesn't want to pay). As funny as it sounds, most carry mains hate voidstaff and last whisper, only cleaver champions really utilize % pen early. So all in all there is a lot of shred, but there is still plenty of space for Pyke for the first half hour to tank for free.
Ralanr1 votes“But if he gets fed, he is more tanky than tanks normally are to burst damage.”
I respectfully disagree. Pyke with 2300 health and lets say 200 resistances for both MR and Armor is not more durable than Poppy, Sion, Alistar, or Braum who while probably having equal resistances have more health to back it up.
Kats Pajamas1 votesaccording to math or what, effective hp 200 armor basically covers 2000 hp with the least curve of loss, you either need substantially more than 3000 hp, or you need 300+ armor, not 200. The entire point of hp tanks is they have methods available to them that allow them to gain more HP than you can itemize for resistance reasonably, not that they 'scale with hp well with abilities and such'. It's that you literally cannot itemize anymore armor at a certain point to match the HP, so you just stack HP after that. But Sion, with infinite hp scaling, is obviously better with resistances...with Adaptive Helm alone he shuts like 20 different mages down from it's completion. Stacking hp on Scion isn't bad either though, there are a lot of conditions, I'm just disagreeing that Sion would optimally even buy bonus HP in the first place.
The tldr is that you cannot afford those items, that fast, before Pyke could have reasonably ended the game, by the time it matters, his relevance has already fallen off. He basically gets 'medium' tanky better than anyone though, he feels twice as durable as vi without even having a shield at mid game.
AnAggravatedPimp1 voteshis E has like 100% scale and is aoe, how does this not count as waveclear?
The 'pyke isn't a tank' meme is getting old. Maybe learn to compare base stats instead of basing your entire conclusion around him being banned from buying effective hp.
He has the single best, most single tanky, defensive base stats, of any charatcer in the game. "he cant buy HP!!!!" well, this is true, but he also has the 4th highest at level 18 hp, with the 1st highest armor and MR rating in the game. He finishes 4th most hp, with the most armor of any champion. All champions, even HP based ones, lack resistances, so the fact his effective hp is fine without being able to buy hp, because everyone has too much hp anyway.
lol you think his W is a minor effect or what?
It 100% bonus AD, has a decent cooldown and why would Pyke want to ever use his stun/escape to clear a wave? Assuming solo lane Pyke, unless he dashed through minion to get to the enemy and wasted his stun, he's in a bad spot. It could only be viable waveclear as an escape and then it's a wasted stun, my dood.
I'm not only comparing base stats, I'm comparing kits in total compared to other tanks. The fact is that Pyke only has the best stat because he can't build HP effectively. A 4000 hp tank will still be tankier than Pyke because they'll get more health and resistances in the long run. They'll always hav a better build path as a tank than Pyke as a pseudo tank. If he didn't hav decent base stats he'd be garbage and need to be buffed ad infinium.
I said the W had a decently long cooldown because it does. Especially early where he will get poked and will hav to walk hella far back to heal against any team that knows how to ward.
Kats Pajamas1 votesThe entire reason he takes aftershock is because it puts him on par with tanks. Unless the tank directly has a armor/resistance ability too, they will not have more resistances than the person with the highest base.
Vekkna1 votesWith no wave clear as a solo laner
Idk, maybe buy a Tiamat like every other AD who can't spam skills?
in order to be immune to poke against any team with decent ward coverage has to zone himself from xp.
Or hit your W button. Or be blue side. Or have a control ward in lane brush.
AnAggravatedPimp1 votesIdk, maybe buy a Tiamat like every other AD who can't spam skills?
By that logic a nami with a Hurricane has great wave clear.
Or hit your W button. Or be blue side. Or have a control ward in lane brush.
So pop W and can't preform any action besides move without breaking stealth, followed by 15 seconds of not being able to do that again, or buy a ward that the enemy can destroy so you hav to back to buy another or walk back into the FoW, out of xp range
Vekkna1 votesSo pop W and can't preform any action besides move without breaking stealth, followed by 15 seconds of not being able to do that again, or buy a ward that the enemy can destroy so you hav to back to buy another or walk back into the FoW, out of xp range
Or be like every other champ not named Tahm Kench and have none of those options?
By that logic a nami with a Hurricane has great wave clear.
More like a Nami with a Luden's proc on a 1200g component. No, that would not be considered "no wave clear."
I guess you think Fiora, Camille, and Kled have "no wave clear" after building their Tiamats.
Kivolan3 votesMobility mobility mobility.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesPyke is garbage though?
Colgate Gator1 votesTBH, there's a glaring weakness I've seen regarding Pyke that people more often than not ignore.
The ADC gets left alone and died a LOT more, I've seen it in all games, Pykes are always scheming around in order to assassinate targets and such, but our ADC gets blasted up, compare that to the enemy one having a Lulu.