Why am i not surprised?
Lets nerf stormrazor so caitlyn/tristana becomes even worse, and nerf other stormrazor users that are balanced (like jinx).
Or we could, you know, nerf the issue, that iS JHIN, he is the problem, his passive is giving him too much mobility for someone whos supposed to not have it.
Rock MD19 votesWhy am i not surprised?
Lets nerf stormrazor so caitlyn/tristana becomes even worse
Tristana is one of the most contested ADCs in pro play, right next to Varus and Kai'sa, lmao
I do think Jhin needs to see individual nerfs if they're going to keep the item in the game but don't pretend they can't just compensate buff all the weak ADs because that item has been pretty silly since its inception
Rexxiee5 votes[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2cUjzvFP,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-23T22:10:07.704+0000)
Tristana is one of the most contested ADCs in pro play, right next to Varus and Kai'sa, lmao
I do think Jhin needs to see individual nerfs if they're going to keep the item in the game but don't pretend they can't just compensate buff all the weak ADs because that item has been pretty silly since its inception
I dont like stormrazor either, but with how hard they destroyed the crit itemization its the only thing that keeps crit adcs playable, IE is an terrible item now.
We could just revert all of the crit item nerfs then we could remove razor in an instant.
Thefrostyviking2 votesI dont like stormrazor either, but with how hard they destroyed the crit itemization its the only thing that keeps crit adcs playable, IE is an terrible item now.
We could just revert all of the crit item nerfs then we could remove razor in an instant.
This isnt really a viable solution, former crit itemization was just as bad or worse than current stormrazor.
But removing stormrazor, reverting essence reaver and cutting down on lifesteal costs a bit would probably make things better for now, it would keep down burst, keep crit powerspike to midgame and give marksmen some earlygame survival with lifesteal.
Yago8 votesWhy am i not surprised?
Lets nerf stormrazor so caitlyn/tristana becomes even worse, and nerf other stormrazor users that are balanced (like jinx).
Or we could, you know, nerf the issue, that iS JHIN, he is the problem, his passive is giving him too much mobility for someone whos supposed to not have it.
Because the problem is Hail of Blades/Lethal Tempo + Stormrazor?
It has absolutely nothing to do with Jhin. He was largely garbage before that combo.
Stormrazor is also a pretty poor item design in general. It grants burst damage, target access and pseudo-mobility, raw AD, and attack speed. If the item had lifesteal, it would have literally every single thing that an AD champion wants.
Ragnaveil3 votesidk why people downvoted this. I mean sure, Jhin has a fault in this because of his AS scaling, but the fact HoB has no ranged modifier is mindblowing. As for Storm, it grants 20% MS just for criting, and that's not even adding in any other ms bonuses from zeal items and boots. If they nerfed it to 15% or back to the original 10%, things would be less out of hand. Storm just lets ADs do a tank's job without having to do the job, they can peel themselves with this pseudo speed boost instead of needing a burly frontliner, or they'd be even harder to get if their support just denies access to backline (Ali, Braum, Rakan, etc).
Mogarl5 votesIdk I think a final fix for things like this is needed. Super fast Jhin is rather infuriating to deal with. Even if Stormrazor does still get nerfed he needs something so that this doesn't happen the next time a combo like this is possible. Just cap the bonus ms before it gets excessive. If it is Stormrazor's fault and it gets nerfed then Jhin wouldn't get double nerfed since you just added the cap.
Thefrostyviking7 votesBecause the problem is Hail of Blades/Lethal Tempo + Stormrazor?
It has absolutely nothing to do with Jhin. He was largely garbage before that combo.
Stormrazor is also a pretty poor item design in general. It grants burst damage, target access and pseudo-mobility, raw AD, and attack speed. If the item had lifesteal, it would have literally every single thing that an AD champion wants.
The issue here is Jhin, because even if you put the same items and combo on another champ it wont be a problem.
But because jhin has his passive and it stacks with stormrazor we have a fat arse of a issue, and the only way to solve it is to hit jhin with something, be it a nerf or making it so that the speedup passive from stormrazor is disabled on him much like Ashe cant really use the crit passive.
LordStegosaurus7 votesI want him to be nerfed, I want to be able to play my main whenever I want, I don't really care if he's trash tier or not
Spank the Fox4 votesStormrazor is a problem though.
Sex With Annie4 voteslove how you sneaked the (like jinx) in there for a champ that literally has a higher wr than jhin himself. I play jinx just as much as jhin and I can confidently say its easier to carry and get a lead when you have on demand area denial and fuckhuge sustained dps apposed to burst damage with some movespeed inbetween. It seems the boards have forgotten that crowd controls and slows exist.
Critmaster Garen4 votesthe item shouldnt even be in the game.
the entire goal of the crit nerfs was to nerf fronloaded marksmen burst, so they dont just run around 2 shotting other squishies in the fist second of a fight, and push them back into the role of lategame sustained damage. adding an item that gives them frontloaded burst, in the same patch, is bipolar.
why is riot making assassin items for adc? like what the fuck XD
are all obviously fucking retarded with guaranteed crits to open a fight and basically just try to outburst assassins.
even assassins loved the item, and were combining it with duskblade. just delete the goddamn thing.
M00ndanc33 votesJhin isn't the problem, its the free AS from hail of blades and the combination of his passive movespeed on crit working with stormrazors free crits and movespeed on crit. Jhin himself though tends to be weak unless either: A: ADCs are weak and he plays around his ult (Jhin/Varus/Ashe meta when ADC in 2k17 was a meme) or B: there is an item/ rune that synergizes well with his passive ( Old IE increasing the bonus on his crit %missing hp damage , rageblade, storm razor, fleet of foot work, hail of blades (previously lethal tempo (would take a little bit of time but by the time you got to 4th shot it was ready)))
Infernape3 votesBecause Jhin was not a problem until Stormrazor and Hail of Blades became a thing. They are what broke Jhin not Jhin's numbers being too high.
Thefrostyviking3 votesBecause Jhin was not a problem until Stormrazor and Hail of Blades became a thing. They are what broke Jhin not Jhin's numbers being too high.
But now they are here and dont seem like they are about to be removed so the only options left are to either nerf jhin somehow, either by cutting his number or disabling the stormrazor movespeed passive for him.
Infernape1 votesIIRC they were going to nerf Hail of blades directly because he was really its only user.
If anything they should reduce the AS to MS conversion to a low enough number so that once Jhin has stormrazor his MS once he crits would be what it was prior to Stormrazor's addition to the game.
saltran1 votesIf anything they should reduce the AS to MS conversion to a low enough number so that once Jhin has stormrazor his MS once he crits would be what it was prior to Stormrazor's addition to the game.
So, tweaking Jhin passive because it was made when StormR didn't existed.
That's what this thread is about.
Thefrostyviking1 votesIIRC they were going to nerf Hail of blades directly because he was really its only user.
If anything they should reduce the AS to MS conversion to a low enough number so that once Jhin has stormrazor his MS once he crits would be what it was prior to Stormrazor's addition to the game.
As off now there are nothing on the PBE i could find in regards to neither jhin nor stormrazor or HoB.
And doing the change you suggest isnt something i personally think is a good idea, it only enforces that Jhin must go for stomrazor 100% of the time to get anything out of his passive pretty much, at least early.
To put it simply, it would completely kill his item diversity......well not that he has much with stormrazor being around and being so much stronger than the competition.
420 grams2 votesI'd rather have him be like this tbh. It's much easier to catch him than other adcs that have stuff stealthed dashes with incredibly high dps and strong cc 
Pika Fox2 votesOR we could nerf NEITHER. Seriously, neither are an issue.
Thefrostyviking1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2cUjzvFP,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-09-24T01:46:46.082+0000)
OR we could nerf NEITHER. Seriously, neither are an issue.
Except the insane movespeed he gets is an issue.
Him having his damage is fine, having his range is also fine as are his abilities.
But when he gets yi ulti levels of movespeed for auto attacking with no real downtime we have a problem.
Pika Fox1 votesIts literally not an issue. The movespeed isnt all that amazing, its short duration, and its uptime is fairly low, given his long auto animation and limited access to autos. It also requires him to actually auto something, which doesnt help him much if hes being engaged on. Its best use is after shot 4, so he can reposition while reloading.
Kalista is far worse of an offender with in combat mobility than jhin is.
Rαy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2cUjzvFP,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-09-24T01:46:46.082+0000)
OR we could nerf NEITHER. Seriously, neither are an issue.
What in the actual fuck? XD
saltran2 votesI mean, Jhin looks stupid with that high speed and trust me that I hate him also but when you look at his winrate-pickrate is worse on everything than Lucian for example.
Where is the daily Lucian thread crying about him?
SugeMinPikk2 votesOr we could just revert both crit item changes and crit item users' compensation buffs. Literally nothing changed in the long run other than Yasuo getting a bigger spike at PD
hhaavviikk2 votesor just remove storm razor ''we don't like ADC's having front loaded burst so we're nerfing static shiv'' ''also here's a item that gives front loaded burst to ADC's''
Daddy Ants2 votesIf Jhin and Kai'Sa are over performing with Stormrazor then Jhin and Kai'Sa should be nerfed.
Remember preseason when Vayne was over performing with Targon's and Fleet? Remember when Sona was over performing with Kleptomancy and Aery? Remember when Ezreal was over performing with Kleptomancy? Remember when Gangplank was over performing with Kleptomancy?
Yeah... they all received direct nerfs.
The nerfs should go to Jhin and Kai'Sa directly not to the item.
Some ADC's are barely holding on viability wise due to Stormrazor (Caitlyn, Tristana, Xayah)
Miss Fortune's over performing with Dark Harvest, she could do with a power down as well.
Slim Gragas2 votesStormrazor is completely broken im not sure where you've been, if you think that Tristana and Jinx are unplayable without it then ask for a buff on them instead of trying to keep a broken ass item.
ClevelandlBhKl1 votesI dont think cait/triss can get worse, youre trolling when you lock in a crit champ tbh
Somebody Love Me1 votesTristana is actually decent right now, but very hard to pull off vs the meta adcs
Warlord Rhinark1 votesThey're both problems right now.
Stormrazor is a mess that doesn't even fit an ADC item since it does absolutely nothing to promote sustained DPS like ADCs are supposed to do and is destined to never be a balanced item.
And Jhin's Attack Speed to Movement Speed conversion is a stupid 0.4% because Riot think they're so clever.
Remove Stormrazor, reduce Jhin's AS to MS conversion to 0.25% and give individual buffs to ADCs that somehow can't function without being ranged pseudo-Assassins, critting for 1000 damage every 3 seconds.
BobaFlautist1 votesEasy fix to stormrazor: make its crit apply to your second or third shot in 5s after not attacking for a bit instead of your first, then compensate for that by turning its guaranteed crit into crit chance after x amount of crit chance has already been purchased so yoou don't have time overspec into attack speed to max out crit chance.
LeftyRaydy1 votesWhy am i not surprised?
Lets nerf stormrazor so caitlyn/tristana becomes even worse, and nerf other stormrazor users that are balanced (like jinx).
Or we could, you know, nerf the issue, that iS JHIN, he is the problem, his passive is giving him too much mobility for someone whos supposed to not have it.
Look I hate Jhin running like Sonic out ehre on the rift, but I don't think he is the problem. I think Stormrazor itself is the problem and the item needs to be done away with and crit needs to be looked at and reworked again. Adding stormrazors was a terrible idea.
rtbf2216514121 votesYou know...
Nerf the items then we know what to Nerf on Jhin.
Or we could go the dumb route and hard nerf him without knowing why and then nerfing the items later
JohnnyNeverSins1 votesLook at Graves :) its the item,not the champion. Its was okay before, since riot released hail of blades and this cancerous cheap item jhins way too overpowered,so is graves... Im all for "nerf the champion" but you HAVE TO BE HONEST that they were okay before that shitty rune and item,actually before those shitty runes got introduced to the game... Nerf the item maybe and give some damage to the adcs that buy stormrazor..
AirKingNeo1 votes"Let's nerf Stormrazor..."
because Kai'sa uses it because it's more broken than her AP build.
because it turns Jhin into a speed demon, where his speed problems were otherwise minor before (also Hail of Blades).
because the item turns champions who should be shit like Tristana into good picks.
Emerald Fang1 votesStormrazor is a toxic item that, as you can see, is REQUIRED by all ADC's just to make them playable, but used most effectively by AD assassins that cheese extra damage out of it. Rengar with this shit is terrifying.
It needs to be changed into a non-crit item.
Bμbble Butt1 votesJhin isn't broken.
It's the forced Stormrazor, and the added Rune hail-of-blades.
Check my profile, not a Jhin main. Stormrazor is just a garbage item to cover garbage changes that a garbage company made.
LunanEclipse1 votesThey don't want to admit that Jhin is the exception of HoB and Stormrazor a decent item and rune at best. Not the fact that his passive gives both of these items too much synergy with him with out any downsides. On a champ where crits mean move speed and attack speed means ad these items are both broken.
Vargrjalmer1 votesThey don't want to admit that Jhin is the exception of HoB and Stormrazor a decent item and rune at best. Not the fact that his passive gives both of these items too much synergy with him with out any downsides. On a champ where crits mean move speed and attack speed means ad these items are both broken.
cough draven cough stormrazor cough
Vargrjalmer1 votesOld thread but stormrazor created the same problem gunblade did on old akali. It made draven into STORMRAZOR: THE CHAMPION The thing about jhin is he has to reload, adc's aren't "supposed" to have mobility, but vayne, kaisa, kalista, lucian, tristana lets just throw gnar on there because he "can" pull off the adc role and exploit anyone without mobility.
Runes reforged further exacerbates the issue of some champions being ridiculously strong based on what keystones got buffed/nerfed recently.
iiGazeii1 votesI remember the devs talking about gating Jhin's movement speed behind a different stat, so he has to sacrifice raw damage output for the safety of his mobility. I wonder what happened to that idea.
I think it'd be great if AP Jhin became a thing. AD/crit build for the damage, AP build for traps, CC, and mobility.