"you're insane, why do you want a tank meta!!!!!"

Ahristocats·Feb 18, 2017·155 votes·10,162 views

hahaha yeah, i'm insane, let's see what happens when we have a tank meta

teamfight lasts for 20 sec, damage is low and cc are dangerous making people thinking twice every single 0.00001 second instead of killing any target in 1 sec

crit adc becomes viable, they have peel and the duration of the teamfight allows them to be the only hyper carry in their team which should be the case and not who doesn't fall off in late game because he uses 4 spells+his team burst and the fight is over before adc have the time to use their DPS for a lot of seconds same for

you mean i can finally teamfight for real? like having the entire duration of my W and ult applied? you mean i don't die when the teamfight begins? and i have people bringing cc????! ^ ^ ^

finally able to use my 60% cdr in a long teamfight? finally able to heal?

tank meta? i'm in finally people play us instead of ~~cancer~~ mage supports oh no, teamfights no longer end in 5 sec, what are we going to do

we have returned in lcs, i heard we needed us to kill tanks

332 Comments

NursingFeb 18, 201776 votes

I can't wait to not be able to damage DrMundo Sion Shen Sejuani while they freely get into the backline and murder us because they have high damage stats already + item 3075 :)

AhristocatsFeb 18, 201738 votes

thornmail is getting nerfed/removed

and mundo isn't a tank, sejuani+shen+sion can't kill the backline

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 18, 201721 votes

how is mundo not a tank?

just curious

EndlessSorcererFeb 18, 201753 votes

Tanks are valued for their CC and utility while providing high durability. Examples include Sejuani, Gragas, Nautilus, Maokai and Braum.

Juggernauts are valued for the damage while providing high durability. Examples include Nasus, Volibear, Olaf and Darius.

Mundo has high innate damage, high durability and lacks utility.

He is a juggernaut.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 18, 20174 votes

hmm ok but considering he don't build damage at all, has cc with his Q that provides a slow... and a sustain tank who heals like crazy and aoe damage

I mean I get how nasus isn't and so on... to me mundo is an HP tank similar to sion they that get tanky by HP but that's my thought on it... I get it he is more of a "fighter" but he don't build damage he just stacks hp and tank stats

EndlessSorcererFeb 18, 201730 votes

hmm ok but considering he don't build damage at all,

Builds don't particularly matter for class designation (with obvious exceptions like Tank vs Full AP Malphite).

While Mundo doesn't build any offensive items, that doesn't change the fact that he only offers damage to his team.

has cc with his Q that provides a slow

Darius is one of the quintessential Juggernauts and his pull is significantly stronger utility than a single-target skillshot slow.

While items wouldn't normally be considered, Darius was designed to synergize with Black Cleaver. Combined with his passive, this item lets him reduce the armor of everyone he hits by a significant amount.

and a sustain tank who heals like crazy and aoe damage

Raw durability isn't exclusive to tanks.

Garen's W provides percentage damage reduction for 2-6s
Nasus' ultimate provides bonus health and resistances for the duration
Darius' Q heals him for a significant amount of his missing health
Volibear's passive heals him for a significant amount of his total health
Mordekaiser's passive can mitigate a significant amount of damage while his W and ultimate provide heals
Trundle's ultimate steals health and resistances from a target while making him exceptionally durable

It is a rather common trait for juggernauts to help compensate for their low utility and immobility.

to me mundo is an HP tank similar to sion they that get tanky by HP

Sion is considered a tank due to the sheer amount of utility his kit provides.

His Q is an AOE slow or knock-up
His E slows and reduces the armor of anyone it hits
His ultimate is an AOE stun

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 18, 20173 votes

so you would agree that maokai is a tank?

he does a good amount of damage with his kit and has cc , sustain and typically builds only tank ( except for me I play him with ROA, ICEBORN , SUNFIRE , SPIRIT VISAGE, and 5th item depending )

but maokai usually builds pure hp and tank stats and can still do damage by his base damage alone...

seems mundo kinda does the same thing even though they are different designs.

EndlessSorcererFeb 18, 201721 votes

Tanks typically need decent base damages to trade in lane and/or clear the jungle.

While their damage falls off rather quickly when opponents begin building resistances, they are quite capable of killing squishy carries who build pure damage.

Maokai is a tank. He provides a massive amount of utility for his team (AoE knock-up/slow, snare, vision, damage reduction aura) and has high durability.

Personally, I wouldn't bother building Rod of Ages of Maokai. I prefer prioritizing resistances and CDR, so my core builds is: item 3068 item 3110 item 3065

If I decide I want to build more damage, I find Abyssal Scepter or Liandry's Torment are the better options.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 18, 20171 votes

well like I stated most build him pure tank... and I stated I don't... I have mained and played him for the last 3 years. have hundreds of games on him...

I have a lot of games where I can out damage my entire team... and be a tank. as maokai due to my build path. and I don't really give up a lot on the tank stats. and you say ROA not worth on him but it actually it is... the passives from catalyst give him mana, and hp back. and that helps sustain him... and the stacks of ROA increases his mana pool, his hp and provides him with enough ap to be a threat to kill something . and the passive of catalyst where it heals is increased by spirit visage ... which also in turns increases his passive for healing...

frozen heart is ok ... if you are facing a lot of as/auto attack based champs... but ice born provides aoe slow... helps with his wave clear, gives him cdr, armor , mana and the sheen procs on all of his abilities... and he has high base ad so his autos after a sheen proc actually hurt. liandry's is so good on him cuz it also procs on his q w e but mainly the synergy with his W and with ROA you can do 22-25% magic damage based on targets maximum hp . which makes maokai able to win a lot of trades. plus the magic pen you get from it helps with all of his abilities and sunfire cape .

Spaceman5pffFeb 18, 20175 votes

I don't know why you would build anything other than sunfire to help with waveclear.

Maokai can clear a wave with E+Q+ a few sunfire ticks in almost no time at all.

The Yetii RiderFeb 18, 20179 votes

Mundo doesn't build damage because he doesn't need to.

His Q doesn't scale off AD or AP. It deals lots of damage regardless of Mundo's stats.

His E gives him 100 AD by pressing a button. That's half of Darius's Noxian Might at level 18, if you can hit 5 stacks on one target.

Mundo deals a large amount of AOE magic damage with W and Sunfire. His damage is based solely on how long he can survive, not stats.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 18, 20172 votes

so he would be a tank ?

http://imgur.com/a/uOK8Z

EndlessSorcererFeb 18, 201712 votes

You realize they stopped using those classifications a long time ago, right?

Recommended Reading: Classes and Subclasses Champion Subclass List

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 18, 20173 votes

lol apparently not if its still listed ...

he is a tank... always has been a tank its ok ...

RalanrFeb 18, 201711 votes

Just because Riot hasn't actually updated the class listings on the Client doesn't mean that they aren't using the new class system. Otherwise it wouldn't be a "Vanguard" update but a general tank update.

As explained, Mundo just provides damage and his own sustain. He doesn't really offer what tanks are needed for. Mundo offers what juggernauts do.

Now that being said, Mundo probably was considered a tank in the past back when classes and champions were much more simple. Things change though.

AhristocatsFeb 18, 201716 votes

mundo doesn't bring tankiness, he has tankiness from items and that's it he gets destroyed in late game by kitting unless his team helps him to cc the enemy team and help him to do damage

his tankiness comes from sustain like every juggernaut, and can be shat down by GW

EndlessSorcererFeb 18, 201711 votes

item 3033

The anti-Mundo.

FawkseaFeb 18, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2bJp1GHX,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-18T14:31:50.146+0000)

how is mundo not a tank?

just curious

he's a juggernaut in all cases, he's thrives in regening damage and he does a good amount of damage with his basic spells so if he can stick to adcs he can kill them while regening all his hp back also tanks usually have cc, mundo has a slow

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 18, 20171 votes

so a slow isn't cc ?

FawkseaFeb 18, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2bJp1GHX,comment-id=00000000000000020000,timestamp=2017-02-18T16:17:51.200+0000)

so a slow isn't cc ?

not viable cc no, especially since if mundo wants to get in range of an adc and their support/tank is tanking those cleavers, he's not gonna get in range, he can be easily kited if you can dodge 1-2 cleavers, he's supposed to be in the frontline doing some damage like a tank, but without the proper cc to do it, even darius has considerably more cc than mundo, since he has a slow on his W+a pull.

AMYS GRAVEFeb 18, 201710 votes

Tanks have hard cc, a slow isn't considered in that category.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 18, 20171 votes

http://imgur.com/a/uOK8Z

AMYS GRAVEFeb 18, 201710 votes

I mean, that page is half a decade old. We have learned a lot about champion classifications in the past two years alone, and the game changed a lot since mundo's release.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 18, 20171 votes

its still current on the client... i didnt go back 5 yrs and make it

AMYS GRAVEFeb 18, 201712 votes

You didn't make it but you're citing outdated information.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 18, 20171 votes

you say its out dated but it is currently on the client

AMYS GRAVEFeb 18, 201711 votes

There is lots of information that is outdated, especially in the legacy client which that picture is from. Being able to discern the current validity of sources is an important skill which you should develop.

Over this year we’ll touch on a few of those changes, but today we wanted to address our more modern (you might say functional) view of ‘Champion Classes’ and how they exist in League of Legends.

The old classifications were not functional, and so they evolved and improved.

PB4UAMEFeb 19, 20174 votes

Cause he's a juggernaut, and has nothing a Warden or Vanguard requires, like, oh, any reason to focus him at all, or any real CC? What does Mundo bring? Q -> Damage, W -> damage, and E? Guess what? More damage. He also has some sustain on his passive and ult, is predominantly melee range. Hmm, sure as fuck sounds like a tank right?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 19, 20171 votes

hmm what damage items is core on him ?

PB4UAMEFeb 19, 20174 votes

Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension. I did not talk about itemization at any point in my comment.

That entirely aside, build has very little if anything to do with a champion's role, as that is determined by factors such as utility, hard CC, mobility (specifically in the form of dashes and blinks), range, threat generation, scaling, and steroids that are either mostly non-existent from items, runes and masteries, entirely non-existent from those sources, or only works to any efficient degree by scaling pre-existing values, such that, say sure you could buy Mikael's and Redemption to heal, and get Windspeaker's to increase the healing amount. . . but that will never compare to Sona's, Soraka's, or even Taric's healing potential.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 19, 20171 votes

i never stated you did... my reading comprehension is fine... no need to be an ass. i asked a question that you refused to answer and go off on some tangent regarding soraka n tarics healing powers

if mundo is meant to do damage what damage items are core in his build?

oh wait he builds all tank items

PB4UAMEFeb 20, 20174 votes

Itemization does not a role make, you seriously do need to work on that reading comprehension after all.

That entirely aside, build has very little if anything to do with a champion's role, as that is determined by factors such as utility, hard CC, mobility (specifically in the form of dashes and blinks), range, threat generation, scaling, and steroids that are either mostly non-existent from items, runes and masteries, entirely non-existent from those sources, or only works to any efficient degree by scaling pre-existing values

Notice how you completely failed to grasp this part, and are still continuing with the irrelevant point of itemization?

Do you even know how the sub-classes are defined, because it has--literally-- nothing to do with build, and everything to do with kits.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 20, 20171 votes

mundo is a tank ... he tanks damage ... he builds nothing but tank... that is what he does he is a fukin meat shield that soaks damage

PB4UAMEFeb 20, 20173 votes

To be a tank, you are more than a meat shield, in fact, three different sub-classes are designed to be meat shields, but only 2 of those three are tank classes.

Juggernauts are meat shields, but they are slow meat shields that will kill you if you stay in their range, while they also have more sustain than a tank, at the cost of next to no team utility, CC, especially hard CC, and mobility.

Vanguards are meat shields that will start a fight, lock you down with hard CC, then stay alive until their team can join them amidst their enemies ranks.

Wardens are the truest form of meat shield, they will stand in front of their team and become a meat wall that is equal parts tankiness and sheer peel-- Braum is the quintessential example of a Warden as he outright redirects damage from others to himself, gives allies armor and magic resist, has a fantastic hard cc ultimate for disrupting divers/assassins/skirmishers/juggeranuts and, with the help of his team, he can stun anyone who gets too close.

NGNL AsianFeb 21, 20173 votes

{quoted}

To be a tank, you are more than a meat shield, in fact, three different sub-classes are designed to be meat shields, but only 2 of those three are tank classes.

Juggernauts are meat shields, but they are slow meat shields that will kill you if you stay in their range, while they also have more sustain than a tank, at the cost of next to no team utility, CC, especially hard CC, and mobility.

Vanguards are meat shields that will start a fight, lock you down with hard CC, then stay alive until their team can join them amidst their enemies ranks.

Wardens are the truest form of meat shield, they will stand in front of their team and become a meat wall that is equal parts tankiness and sheer peel-- Braum is the quintessential example of a Warden as he outright redirects damage from others to himself, gives allies armor and magic resist, has a fantastic hard cc ultimate for disrupting divers/assassins/skirmishers/juggeranuts and, with the help of his team, he can stun anyone who gets too close.

Thank you for explaining this. A lot of the people just define tanks as vanguards and juggernauts which really paranoids me

LankPantsFeb 18, 201721 votes

and mundo isn't a tank, sejuani+shen+sion can't kill the backline

Not 100% about Sion, but Shen and Sej certainly can kill a backline.

There's a point Sej specifically gets to where her W alone is dealing upwards of 1k damage. She struggles right now because every ADC in existence gets EoN and will build QSS into her, which is a lot of MR for her to get through but she certainly has the raw damage to kill a squishy champ.

Shen's most common build is Titanic rush, if you let him get his hits off onto an ADC he will down them. He's probably the 'tank' who's actually the most specialised at quickly dispatching an ADC without offering them specifically great options. Their team can normally stop him, but if you just ignore a Shen in the backline he'll down a carry fast.

AhristocatsFeb 18, 201724 votes

{quoted}

There's a point Sej specifically gets to where her W alone is dealing upwards of 1k damage.

sejuani transforms hp into damage, but it's not instant which will let in late game hyper carries lifestealing back her W does 160+12% of her hp at level 5 for total damage which means she needs 10k hp to do 1k damage

stop the manipulation please

{quoted} Shen's most common build is Titanic rush,

https://i.gyazo.com/8b62735e744e4d96eb450f30438e5816.png https://i.gyazo.com/5f162753a4242c42142f9ee8567f5584.png

last 2 shen that were in my master tier game didn't build it it makes him too squishy, his base stats are trash

LankPantsFeb 18, 201710 votes

sejuani transforms hp into damage, but it's not instant which will let in late game hyper carries lifestealing back

You can't lifesteal when CCed

her W does 160+12% of her hp at level 5 for total damage which means she needs 10k hp to do 1k damage

Firstly, your maths is BS, 10000x0.12=1200 already. With extra damage from bases and W hit that looks like around 1.5K damage, maybe even a little more.

Secondly her W has 2 parts, VS a 2k HP target her first hit deals 120 damage, plus whatever the AA deals if you use it as a reset. I find as late game Sej I have around 150 AD, so that's already 270ish damage on the first hit. That means before you account for the HP ratio you have 430 damage, so you need 570 damage. To get 570 damage you need 4750 HP, a more achievable number and one I almost always hit as late game Sej.

stop the manipulation please

I main Sej, I have no need to manipulate. I just know my damage, and I know it's quite high.

last 2 shen that were in my master tier game didn't build it it makes him too squishy, his base stats are trash

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Shen

When you ignore Hyliasang playing support Shen (I respect that though) almost every Shen is going Sunfire>Titanic or just Titanic rush. Sure you're a little squishy but it makes you a strong duelist and splitpusher, which is valuable for Shen.

AhristocatsFeb 18, 20178 votes

you don't get cc'ed for 6 seconds, nice try though

{quoted}

j I have around 150 AD

she has 119 base AD, no fucking clue where you get your 150 ad

she has no armor pen, which gets reduced to nearly 50 or 60 damage

LankPantsFeb 18, 20176 votes

you don't get cc'ed for 6 seconds, nice try though

You accuse me of manipulation and then say this.

I understand my champ. Sej has enough CC to make it so an ADC can't just stand and tank you. You don't need to keep them locked down the entire duration of your damage, just long enough to lay on damage without them vamping the entire time. If you Q on them and R them that's 2.75 seconds where they can't attack you, if you pay attention to attack patterns you can also break AA animations with Q since it's a knock up and that makes it more like 3.25 seconds. Sej's damage takes about 4.25 seconds to come out, so you can lock an ADC down for most of that, I have no idea where you pulled 6 from.

she has 119 base AD, no fucking clue where you get your 150 ad

Runes, masteries, possibly Infernal drakes. That's around my average end game AD, some games I get 3 Infs and it's way over, when I have Baron it's over, if I don't have Infs it's under. That's how averages work.

nop, 270

That's counting the 160 base damage on W's DoT to isolate just the HP damage, 270 from the W hit+160 from DoT before=430 damage.

she has no armor pen, which gets reduced to nearly 50 or 60 damage

I used an important word in my first post, raw. I don't actually expect to deal 1k damage to a carry with W, rather I expect to put 1k damage into them before resists. That is enough to kill them when combined with other sources like Sunfire, Thornmail (if I build it anyway), Red Buff (if I get it), AAs, my other spells and sometimes a last item Titanic, if you're stacking HP it's far from the worst item you can buy.

Papa AndreiFeb 18, 20175 votes

You keep saying all this as if getting to backline involves you freely whackinng the adc for 8-10 seconds while adc wanks it off ti Brazillian Fart Porn and the rest if the team does nothing.

EndlessSorcererFeb 18, 20177 votes

Sejuani's main issue is the current jungle meta.

Every meta jungler out-duels her, out-farms her and out-pressures her due to her slow early clears and weak early-game.

PennsFeb 18, 20172 votes

Implying that doesnt already happen lel

AhristocatsFeb 18, 20178 votes

ikr, must explain why everyone listed above except shen aren't played in my games

rito pls nerf i don't want to get gud

PennsFeb 18, 20175 votes

And Fizz or Akali are played? Tank metas are cancer because you have those unkillable tanks that can easily kill your backline, 1v2 bot with 2 items,...

doublelift fgFeb 18, 20179 votes

if you're playing heimerdinger then sure,

if i'm twitch i'm the one reaping them, unless i'm in an 1v9 game tanks are the one who bring the least amount of damage in late game

in mid game their damage is high, but in late game at best they can remove 30% of your hp in a matter of a second, before you kill them in 2 sec and lifesteal

fuck it

PennsFeb 18, 20171 votes

Id love to see a Twitch with like item 3085 item 3006 item 3031 do damage to a tank with item 3068 item 3047 item 3065 or item 1413 item 3075 lol

LankPantsFeb 18, 201713 votes

item 3035 , If you're VS a tank, just build it. Especially when 7.4 rolls around. In 7.4 it's a 1.3k gold item which knocks 1.3k gold worth of stats off of a tank at 65 bonus armour. They'll never be a reason not to just slot in a LW early if you're VS a tank after 7.4.