Bard is bad because he has downsides

doublelift fg·Apr 10, 2015·53 votes·4,385 views

Q only good if hits a wall W only good if you wait E can be used by enemies

He is bad because 3/4 of league champs don't have as much counterplay as him

58 Comments

Penguin EclipseApr 10, 201544 votes

He's bad because he doesn't have enough upsides.

doublelift fgApr 10, 20152 votes

a free zhonya for fiddle ulti the enemy let annie walk up and get a penta can give a portal to annie who lacks of mobility can give a portal to several champ his W isn't that good his Q is good if you baited the enemy with the portal

Baron of BreadApr 10, 20152 votes

If you only hit your Fiddle with your ult you are a Bard-God (unless by Zhonya's for Fiddle you meant you Zhonya's the enemy so Fiddle can ult without interference.

ZephyrDrakeApr 11, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=doublelift fg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Xw7ZgyH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-04-10T18:13:52.482+0000)

a free zhonya for fiddle ulti the enemy let annie walk up and get a penta can give a portal to annie who lacks of mobility can give a portal to several champ his W isn't that good his Q is good if you baited the enemy with the portal

he has a very situational ult that can easily backfire even without wanting to troll people his E can easily lead to his teams demise and needs very careful planning for it to not backfire horribly his Q can be useful... except it has stupid short range and wonky hitboxes (hits minions when not even aiming for them and sometimes the second hit hits a minion that's beside the first target other times not) no one likes to wait for his W to power up, about 90% of the people pick it up just as soon as you place it his W is only useful mid-late game for the speed boost which isn't even that great

khorneyApr 11, 20152 votes

His ult is great for baron and drag . stopping the enemy team

TheBostonTapApr 11, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=doublelift fg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Xw7ZgyH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-04-10T18:13:52.482+0000)

a free zhonya for fiddle ulti the enemy let annie walk up and get a penta can give a portal to annie who lacks of mobility can give a portal to several champ his W isn't that good his Q is good if you baited the enemy with the portal

A free Zhonya that also zhonya's the enemies within fiddle's ultimate, meaning they take no damage and Crowstorm's duration ends.

Don't have an argument for that one, as it is what the ultimate was suppose to be for, but the fact that it can hit teammates can turn a decent teamfight into a disaster.

The portal is slow, clunky and sometimes doesn't work the way its meant to. Your portal may only go 2 inches or it can travel half way down the lane just because you moved it over 1/8th of a Teemo to the left. Not to mention that it gives every enemy champ in range a huge sign of your location. A gap closer should be quick and instant or at least a quick burst (Vi Q, Hecarim and Rammus' abilities, etc etc) a giant portal is a bit of a dead give away.

IF being the key word there. You're not going to bait a champ through a wall every time and if the Q is only decent at that exact moment, then whats the point?

khorneyApr 11, 20151 votes

I think the portal should be used on both ends

TaoistMasterApr 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I think the portal should be used on both ends

the plays would be hilarious.

probably op

junglerboy16Apr 11, 20151 votes

URF Bard in a nutshell, just back and forth between 2 portals near indefinitely.

Rew711Apr 10, 201512 votes

Honestly, his Q does something.

His W should allow up to 5 placements.

His E is fine. (Don't really want to talk about it.)

His R is only good for turret initiations or to stop someone. It's not easy to use, but fun to master.

His passive is what makes him strong. Strong slow, powerful auto attacks, mana regen, speed boosts, and area effect. Just focus on his passive and you might see some difference. Leave behind all the heals you can before you leave and come back often.

Also, if you are comparing Bard to Braum, please note that Braum is somewhat a broken champion to all melee champions, some ranged, and some tanks.

Braum's AS needs a huge nerf.

doublelift fgApr 10, 20151 votes

his W is bad and needs more buff

Rew711Apr 10, 20151 votes

Well, I can see your point. I wish that it also didn't cost as much as it does. It doesn't heal like all of the others and isn't much of a ward.

doublelift fgApr 10, 20158 votes

yea, cost too much mana for what it does, also needs to wait 10 ses is it supposed to be bad in team fight?, then why has it so much mana??? so we can't use it in lane?

CubedJusticeApr 11, 20153 votes

If he needs more buff, just go to the Mundoverse gym.

Tis a nice dayApr 10, 20151 votes

Attack speed Braum too strong with that freezing passive.

khorneyApr 11, 20151 votes

Bards q needs a longer range and his ult needs to have 2 aoes . in the inner circle it does what it does now but the outer circle it slows you .

MrBuffingtonApr 11, 20151 votes

That's kind of been my impression; I just played a game against one (I was Janna). People talk about his weak laning, but it honestly wouldn't be that big an issue (Janna's lane isn't exactly the strongest either) if there was more he could contribute later in the game (like Janna, the queen of peel). Most if not all of his skills are very situational and have pretty narrow windows of use, so it's difficult to really make an impact. You'd think since he's supposed to roam that his ganks would be strong, but I feel like a lot of supports are just as strong if not stronger in ganks.

Kitten of EvilApr 11, 20152 votes

Wait shouldn't Soraka be the queen of peel? BANANANANANA.

MrBuffingtonApr 11, 20151 votes

lol got me there

The GoldmeisterApr 11, 20151 votes

I had in interesting idea the other day.

What if his E was made differently?

What if you click somewhere and a circle only visible to your team shows up then you click again somewhere else. On the second click it creates the portal and everyone that steps in it will fall from the sky to the first circle and damage and maybe slow or stun who ever is in there. I don't know much about the logistics or anything but i thought it was an interesting idea. This way it is still a "magical journey" but it is not as useless as his one now.

Personally i think if he is meant to be a 'roaming' champion he should be able to do a little bit more damage than a stun if he is caught in the jg. If his E or something did damage like i said it would be a different story i think.

PokladnicaZlaApr 10, 20158 votes

I don't understand why he doesn't have a 350 MS.It's makes sense gameplay vise and thematicly...

Tis a nice dayApr 10, 201517 votes

He probably skips leg day.

MrRazzleDazzleApr 11, 20153 votes

The problem with Bard is how overall useless he feels in the middle of a fight. His meeps are good for 2-3 autos, his Q is easily blocked in a minion wave and his heals just don't do enough when cast on somebody. He is fun to play, but I've never felt so useless to my team than when I play Bard. I don't feel like we are winning because of me, I feel like we are winning IN SPITE of me, and if we're losing, you can bet my teammates will make me aware of it.

I am absolutely fine with his Q and E. I think his Q could be a little more lenient and safe, but Riot is still fine tuning that, so I won't nitpick.

His heal.. sucks. It just does. I am fine with it as a laning tool, but once teamfighting breaks out and you can't afford to spend the mana, let alone set shrines and wait and hope the enemy brings the fight to them, it's just too much best case scenario. So obviously you want to use it as a quick heal and a chase for someone persuing. Except the quick heal does't help anyone. At best, you extend someone's life by a quarter of a second. There is no tide turning with his heal, it's just "I used this. My target still died though".

Then there is his ult. What if ithad an after effect like Morg's ult? Except instead of damage it provides a substantial buff/debuff to everyone who was hit by stasis. For allies, let's say a damage increase or armor/mr increase by 10/15/25% (debuff increased by ap ratio) and obviously the opposite for enemies. Enough for enemies to want to get out of the fight, which goes along with Bard's theme. I'm no balance tester so I know that needs to be toned down, but the biggest problem with Bard's ult is how much my team feels like sitting ducks during an ult. It needs something to make the teammates THANK the Bard for ulting. I've pulled some pretty clutch ults already, but there are plenty more times its feels like I had no impact since the enemy just dog piles immediately after it's over anyways.

SEKAIApr 10, 20152 votes

Yi.

Half the entire game is made to wipe his existence, yet people still QQ so yer.

If you're talking about individual skills instead of the champs as a while then yer you're prob right here. But still we talk about the entire champ.

Tis a nice dayApr 10, 20156 votes

His abilities don't exactly have super strong synergy with each other. At best your ult might allow you some time to get into position to throw a Q-stun down.

58738074DEL1Apr 10, 20153 votes

[deleted]

junglerboy16Apr 11, 20151 votes

This^ is his biggest problem. None of his abilities combo in any way but to help him singularly run away from a chasing opponent. Each of his abilities in isolation are really cool and have a lot of uses, but unlike most champions, his kit doesn't work with itself at all. Now look at somebody like Tristana . Her abilities in isolation are ok, but not great. However, putting them together gives her several very useful combos to pull off with relative ease, like EQAA-AA-AA-AAW, or EQAA-AA-AA-AAR, or any other set of place bomb, charge bomb, pick out target, nuke target, nuke target's team, etc. Bard's only combo is E>hope they follow you>Q into a wall>Stand there looking stupid because you can't do anything else.

Tis a nice dayApr 10, 20152 votes

And you didn't even have to mention his R. Bravo.

doublelift fgApr 10, 20151 votes

his R doesn't have downside except that it can screw your team if you do it wrongly and it has a time travel

The LexerApr 11, 20152 votes

Q is fine W needs larger base heal and larger wait heal E - is okish. I like the speed for allies. I think the enemies speed should be about 40% of allies speed though, just so Bard can get some advantage out of it.

ShinjusukeApr 11, 20152 votes

I disagree that he's bad for any of those reasons. I think he's bad because his kit does not fit his role.

If he was an effective jungler I believe Bard could be a swell champion. As a support, he's just not suited to the role, because the entire point of the role for the last couple seasons is "babysit an ADC that couldn't find their own ass even if you gave them a map".

Were we in a much more passive farm-focused meta he might be good. But we're not, and likely will not be for a long time, if ever (because it's boring as hell).

I think Riot should consider embracing him as a jungler. But that's just my opinion.

Yuumi or LoseApr 11, 20152 votes

I complain about Bard being useless when he came out and people told me "Oh you don't know anything he just came out you have to wait" and yet the champ still sucks.

Bard is getting buffs after buffs and STILL doesn't compete with high level competitive meta.

This is what riot needs to do.

Buff up q missile speed so you can actually land the thing instead of having to go melee form just to hit someone on top of another unit since it travels so god damn slow. Increase the amount of heals you can place OR/AND reduce the time it takes for the heal to fully charge at max. Reduce the speed on E for enemies even more so Bard can have a chance to escape because it's such a neutral spell. his ult I don't even know just leave it I guess.

But most importantly, buff the experience you gain from picking up chimes and make it so that you gain 3 or 5 gold for each chime you pick up so the champ can do what it is thematically suppose to do. "Oh but you shouldn't roam. You're suppose to roam when you get the chance or when laning phase is over" LIKE EVERY OTHER SUPPORT DOES? So much for the wanderer. And increase his aa range. This will definitely put him up there without making him op. I rather have a Thresh or even Nami than Bard. The enemy would have to throw or misplay so hard to lose.

FakeGravityApr 11, 20152 votes

wanna make bard W feel strong no matter what? make it heal for missing health porcentage or a base number (the higher of the two of them)

DengedenApr 10, 20151 votes

He's forced to roam, that's the problem. A conditional ability is in no way bad, especially if you get item 3117 Otherwise we might as well call projectiles useless because they're only useful if no minions are in the way

Stars ShaperApr 10, 20151 votes

I don't think so. I think that he is bad because even the best play of Bards keep being inconsistant unless his team fully exploit them. Meaning that any other support does it better even by screwing up.

Spacesuit SpiffApr 10, 20151 votes

I've seen Bards in diamond-level ranked games, and you can tell the player put a lot of time and energy into mastering the champ. And even when everything he does is absolutely spot-on, he didn't have a huge impact on the game.

doublelift fgApr 11, 20151 votes

even azir is op when it comes to synergie

Daedalus871Apr 11, 20151 votes

I'm confused why you would pick Bard when Sona exists. Pretty similar kits, but Sona doesn't have the downsides.

HavelDaRockApr 11, 20151 votes

There are just better support choices than bard, his e and his ult are his problem areas honestly.

The E: First of, it really needs a cursor like threshes lantern to just go through it. Second, there's really no incentive to use it. If it maybe gave teammates a move speed boost on the other side or slow for enemies that come through or something. It just needs more....

The Ult: Its sooooo situational to use it, the only time I've seen it used well is when some hits a team trying to drag or baron and can come to either clean up or steal. Its just, with his ult players would much rather have someone like Annie who stuns them, allowing them to be disabled and still hit. Bard just zhoynas everyone making the pause kinda useless. If you can split a team up sure it can be good, but people would rather just take Annie, Brand, Sona, Nami or just anyone with just "better" CC.

Sigma117Apr 11, 20151 votes

Q needs a range buff but that risks it becoming op, W needs to heal more but then he's risking becoming a better Soraka, E needs to slow enemies more but then it's a free teamwide escape. R...it'd be nice be able to opt in to that zhonya's effect /s

I think his chimes need more work. I played him once (Got harassed all game for it too) and found myself underlevelled because chimes were spawning stupidly and don't give enough exp. He's a roaming support yet his roaming pattern is dictated by rng.

JRobin31Apr 11, 20151 votes

Actually Bard is awesome! Q stun procs when there is a wall or enemy minions behind your target which happens all the freaking time when you are in lane with your adc. Luckily, meep collection encourages you to leave your adc to 1v2. You can leave multiple heals behind which your adc will use as soon as you put down even though you tell him to wait for them to charge up. You can use the heal on yourself instead to collect your meeps faster and get meeps that are farther away from your adc. You can go to other lanes with your speed boost and leave shrines for them which are not worth the time you spent to roam to their lane. Luckily, you have the ability to go through walls and collect more meeps, since there is no use for this ability when you are sitting in lane with your adc. Finally, your ult is the most awesome ability in the game because it duplicates the active of an item anyone can buy and that your enemies otherwise would've had to spend gold to get. Do not confuse Bard's ult with Lissandra's ult, because unlike Lissandra's ult, Bard's ult does no damage and prevents your allies from doing damage. Finally, let us not forget that Bard's passive makes Bard's late game OP, increasing the magic damage meeps deal by +20 every 5 chimes over 150 which should start to happen somewhere at 70+ minutes the dream (but only if you have been a diligent chime collector).

Jamatrix666Apr 11, 20151 votes

Coincidence or not, I created a thread about this 13 hours before this one. I invite everybody to read it and give their opinion :)

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/kxqEAOgs-bards-abilities-shouldnt-all-have-downsides

rekcebApr 11, 20151 votes

He needs to have longer range on Q or better health and armor stats.

Virgin RayApr 11, 20151 votes

Well at least he isn't one of those typical new champions that are crazy OP. Still he's really bad to play with. I agree.

TenSlashTenApr 11, 20151 votes

bard is bad mostly because his ult takes so long to do anything most people can walk out/not really get harmed by what it does. If it was instant on cast and had a set range without sight range. He might be decent. but he doesn't and I don't do "what if's" So he's balanced.

KaisadiIIaApr 11, 20152 votes

If it was instant on cast and had a set range without sight range. He might be decent.

It would be ridiculously OP. Just pick someone with strong initiation like Malphite, wait for them to be in range, insta-freeze them and just time an easy Malphite R with zero difficulty and zero counterplay.

Xela SyabApr 11, 20151 votes

Bard is "bad" because he lacks kill pressure. That's the main reason a support roams is to cc other lanes to guarantee kills but since Bard's cc is conditional like Poppy's he can't guarantee cc when he approaches another lane like an Annie/Janna/Blitz. His passive meeps need to do more cc even an auto random cc(silence, snare, stun, poly, charm) would be better than what he has. His magical journey is buggy and is frankly a bad skill even if it was just a linear gapclose put ANYWHERE it would still be a bad skill due to allies and enemies being effected by skills in the portal. I like the concept I hate the implementation and design that riot put forth on this champ, even in pbe people were saying he was weak and didn't understand how to play him.

DrukyulApr 11, 20151 votes

I think Bard just needs more buffs to base stats (the recent buffs are good, I'd wait and see how it pans out before more). You can get away with shitty abilities as a support just by getting enough actives and auras as long as you can actually stand up in a fight.