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@Meddler If you're going to nerf MF, can you please not gut her AP playstyle?

Koechophe··14 votes·1,824 views

On the PBE, Make it Rain is being reduced to 80/115/150/185/220 from 90/145/200/225/310. Now, I don't want to talk about whether AD MF needs nerfs. That's not the issue. I just want to point out the fact that in her rework, riot specifically mentioned that they took pains to make sure that AP was preserved. I know it doesn't seem like much, but the AP playstyle is fun and rewarding. If you don't believe me, try it; it feels very different from AD MF, and is extremely fun to play. This nerf absolutely slaughters the AP playstyle, hurting it WAY more than it hurts the AD playstyle. There are an infinite number of ways you could avoid this (Nerf Love Tap instead, nerf the AD ratio on her ult, increase the AP ratio on her Q and E to compensate, nerf her attack speed on her W instead, etc). Please, give at least a smidgen of thought to the AP playstyle before you gut it in a nerf that's barely going to affact AD miss fortune (people will just level W first instead, E damage was pretty negligable by end game anyway).

*Edit: Wow, the community is feeling toxic tonight.

31 Comments

SaltyKracka16 votes

Guess who has two thumbs and doesn't give a shit about AP MF?

Most of the playerbase.

A Miss Fortune3 votes

Though there are a lot of dedicated AP Miss Fortune players. This won't even really effect AD Miss Fortune, max'ing MF's Q has been and still has always been better than max'ing her E and most of the reason people do it is because of the slow scaling with rank.

D357R0Y3R8 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2LBHfjwP,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-01-07T11:12:47.570+0000)

Though there are a lot of dedicated AP Miss Fortune players. This won't even really effect AD Miss Fortune, max'ing MF's Q has been and still has always been better than max'ing her E and most of the reason people do it is because of the slow scaling with rank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fPoe2IFCtQ

must explain why the top 1 korea challenger who has 89% win rate with mf is maxing E

Jorencice1 votes

Don't compare solo q Koreans to solo q anywhere else.

Especially the best player in the world.

He could Probly max W first and still have the same win rate....

Ahristocats2 votes

{quoted}

Don't compare solo q Koreans to solo q anywhere else.

Especially the best player in the world.

** He could Probly max W first and still have the same win rate**....

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2LBHfjwP,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2016-01-07T15:42:32.897+0000)

just to make it clear

maxed make it rain:

-does around 400 damage because it applies thunderlord -slows nearly as much as thresh's the box in reality -has x1000 more range than her Q -has a static mana cost. -is aoe

Jorencice1 votes

Cool.

That has nothing to do with saying the best person does this so I have too as well.

Also 400 damage is pathetic is that late game? And for the ENTIRE duration?

Hmmm. I don't even think mfs need nerfs. I destroy them on my 2 favorite supports janna and tahm kench.

Best princess EU1 votes

{quoted}

Cool.

That has nothing to do with saying the best person does this so I have too as well.

Also 400 damage is pathetic is that late game? And for the ENTIRE duration?

Hmmm. I don't even think mfs need nerfs. I destroy them on my 2 favorite supports janna and tahm kench.

you're stupid, he isn't saying in late game, in fact pro players max it FIRST, so it's in early game not late game

is also has a long range, mf should be low ranged

Jorencice1 votes

Why should she be low ranged?

I mean she has 3 long range spells so riot obviously want her long range.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

Why should she be low ranged?

I mean she has 3 long range spells so riot obviously want her long range.

because someone who has a lot of damage combined to a lot of range= imbalanced

old Graves, also miss fortune's Q is low range, and her ulti deals less damage if you are far

Jorencice1 votes

Does she really do that much damage though? I thought she was the wombo combo adc.

Without her ult end game she's pretty much worthless.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

The overall difference is minimum but there's so many reasons to max her Q over her E.

You really only max E if you're playing vs an immobile ADC or if you're focusing all of Miss Fortune's power into her ultimate since her Q isn't really useful in that case.

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2LBHfjwP,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-01-07T11:12:47.570+0000)

Though there are a lot of dedicated AP Miss Fortune players. This won't even really effect AD Miss Fortune, max'ing MF's Q has been and still has always been better than max'ing her E and most of the reason people do it is because of the slow scaling with rank.

past diamond everyone maxes make it rain,

Ahristocats4 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2LBHfjwP,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-01-07T11:12:47.570+0000)

Though there are a lot of dedicated AP Miss Fortune players. This won't even really effect AD Miss Fortune, max'ing MF's Q has been and still has always been better than max'ing her E and most of the reason people do it is because of the slow scaling with rank.

just to make it clear

maxed make it rain:

-does around 400 damage because it applies thunderlord -slows nearly as much as thresh's the box in reality -has x1000 more range than her Q -has a static mana cost. -is aoe

XIII Vanitas1 votes

Yep, it's a nightmare when you play an immobile adc. I was playing Ashe in a normal game and had to fight against MF and Zyra (my support was Thresh). I was winning the laning phase, outrading both my enemies, when they hit level 6. Even though I was hugging my tower, MF hit me with her E + Thunderlord, followed by Zyra's combo and MF ult. Instakilled. MF probably didn't hit me with a single aa or Q during the whole laning phase, but they were still able to burst me down every single time my flash was on cd. Couldn't even stun MF to stop her ults, because Zyra was smart and was always standing in front of her.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Her Q is stronger because

-Lower cooldown -Instant damage -Lower mana cost -Resets her autos if you use it right (this may be a glitch though) -Stronger poke -Works with armor penetration

The only reason you ever max her E is because the enemy for some reason picked an immobile ADC vs MF, otherwise any ADCs with any form of mobility can just totally ignore the entire ability as you need to take the full duration. I'm sorry but I can't see the point in max'ing her E, the difference isn't that big at all but I'd much rather be able to do 60% of the enemy ADC's heal in one Q instantly rather than do 20% of their health because they forgot my E does damage.

Krys Star4 votes

Honestly, I think the nerf is in the wrong direction. Miss Fortune needs a nerf, yes, but... She needs the range on Make It Rain reduced back to 800 (they buffed it to 1000 when preseason started)

That, and they need to revert the windup reduction they gave Bullet Time. Currently it casts instantly, which was healthy before when Bullet Time wasn't that powerful to begin with. Now, it's a catastrophe to enemy teams. The damage is devastating, the length, the width, which is all fine because it's a 3 second channel that cannot be redirected, can be interrupted and dodged. But, with the windup time basically gone, enemy teams have minimal time to react to it, especially when a long ranged Make It Rain is dropped on the enemy team.

TL;DR - Revert the buff to Make It Rain's range, and revert the buff to the significant reduction of Bullet Time's windup time, making it cast immediately.

Superior Current1 votes

I agree that they shouldn't nerf the damage. Maybe back to 900 range will be okay for Make it rain. It was buffed because it was hard to pull off a good E+R combo. But now it lacks counterplay if you're AP MF or even AD if you max it first. An alternative is to increase the mana cost of Make it rain to 100, which will force MF's to think twice before they use it.

As for the ultimate, a wind time for a 3 second long channel is unnecessary IMO, just try to step out of it or end the channel. Perhaps a slight reduction of the AD ratio will be fine.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Nerfing her ultimate will do nothing benefitial for Miss Fortune. The only reason Miss Fortune is even a good champion outside of the laning phase is because of her ultimate. Her base AD is garbage and she has to switch targets to make any relevant use of her Passive and W. Her E barely does any damage and certainly won't do much next patch with the recent nerf.

Ahristocats1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2LBHfjwP,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-01-07T11:14:56.966+0000)

Nerfing her ultimate will do nothing benefitial for Miss Fortune. The only reason Miss Fortune is even a good champion outside of the laning phase is because of her ultimate. Her base AD is garbage and she has to switch targets to make any relevant use of her Passive and W. Her E barely does any damage and certainly won't do much next patch with the recent nerf.

thought i hate mf, this is right, but make it rain is broken

Sightless663 votes

There's nothing wrong with keeping side builds viable, but that is much less important than properly balancing the champion around their main role, and this is definitely one of the best options for balancing AD MF. Right now, she's maxing E in lane, and getting very favorable trades with instant thunderlord's procs on an ability that is extremely easy to hit. She's not making any major use of the Q bounce, which is what Riot really, really wanted to design her around (at least for lane). That's a problem, and it has to be addressed. This is the best way to address it.

None of the nerfs you suggest address the problem anywhere near as well as this nerf, and it's not worth messing up the main balance of the champion to preserve a much, much rarer side build.

The one suggestion that has potential is the AP ratio increases. That might be an option worth pursing, and there is probably no harm in looking into it. Then again, I can't honestly say that I really care one way or the other if Riot does or doesn't help her, so good luck with that I guess.

2yordles1cupcake2 votes

Nope gut the freelo http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/9y17EvR3-so-we-cant-have-ap-poppy-but-we-can-have-ap-mf http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/rMMM3asL-holy-f-when-is-riot-going-to-nerf-mf-again

Cant b giving mf special treatment simply because she has more sex appeal, If poppy and sion can no longer be ap the same logic should apply to mf.

MasterSomething3 votes

Riot tries to go for diversity, so when they do actually salvage it, people want it gone? What the fuck is wrong with this community? I feel so sorry for Riot.

2yordles1cupcake1 votes

{quoted}

Riot tries to go for diversity, so when they do actually salvage it, people want it gone? What the fuck is wrong with this community? I feel so sorry for Riot.

It's all fair treatment, get in the back of the line, if I cant play my main with an ap build then why should mf mains? How is that fair for other xchamp ap mains that riot has gutted because of "muh balance?"

MasterSomething2 votes

You really think that? You really think you are so self entitled to your AP build, and if you can't play AP nobody can? It's not "fair" to remove something totally fine, but it is "fair" to remove toxic stuff that had little to no counterplay. Honestly, half the champs don't even have mixed ratios. Let the diversity be, alright?

Koechophe5 votes
  1. Poppy and Sion were completely remade. MF was hardly changed at all.
  2. In what way, shape or form is AP MF freelo?
  3. AP Sion was toxic: Point click stun + shield combo with huge burst, and that was it. Incredibly annoying to play against while also highly ineffective. Bad playstyle.
  4. AP poppy didn't differ whatsoever from AD poppy in playstyle. The only diversity was in build. All of her spells were used for exactly the same purpose, AP/AD regardless, and she still used both skills and autos in both positions.

AP MF is way different from AD. Her E becomes a nuke that takes precision to use, and she focuses heavily on waveclear and burst. Her Ult becomes a much large focus, and her W becomes a skill used primarily for recharging the passive. The playstyle and paradigm shift are unique, non-toxic, and there is no reason to gut it just because of laziness.

Veraska2 votes

What's the actual difference between ap and ad mf? They're both aoe damage champions? Except ap is generally worse at it?

Like I've never played against a good ap mf, and whenever I have one on my team they seem to do nothing in teamfights, like they have waveclear, and there damage always seems really high in the post game graphs, it's just really gradual and doesn't really have the punch ad mf

What's the appeal? I hope it's not "it's different" cuz it doesn't seem different, just worse

Superior Current1 votes

Yup, kinda sucks to see it nerfed without ANY compensation. A good way for a power shift would be to increase the ap ratio to 100% so she could have the same and even more damage later, while preventing her cheesing immobile champions early game.

Leu071 votes

RIP Ap Mf

BobbyCarHaterX1 votes

Ap MF is the reason why they nerf her e dmg.

Lately you were able to play her mid and support with ap since she can 'oneshot' carries from fog of war.

Bard in a Diaper1 votes

Welcome to your champion being nerfed due to a mastery, enjoy your stay! Swain will keep you company.

forresto1 votes

AP trist? kill it. AP sion? who cares? AP MF? great pains to preserve. sry but theyve already killed 2 of my favorite ap champs, so welcome to my world.

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