Dealing hybrid damage in 2015 is more of a crutch than a plus

Kingsgrave·Mar 31, 2015·8 votes·2,094 views

"but they can just itemize against you!"

Everyone itemizes against someone who is fed, so that argument is pointless

The main thing people should be focusing on is that you also can't itemize your damage when playing that character

Look at Shyvana's W. Full AD scaling but deals Magic Damage. She can't build Warrior or Youmuu's and get a good power spike out of it, so she is forced to do fuck all and just build full tank.

25 Comments

JustMyBassCannonMar 31, 20159 votes

For a second, I thought I might agree with you. Then you go and pick Shyvana, a champion whose hybrid DPS is highly optimized.

None of her magic DPS scales on AP, so she doesn't need to bother with AP-based items.
All of her AD scaling is strong enough that AD is useful, but not strong enough that lacking it is a huge detriment.

She scales stronger with AS than AD or AP. As a bruiser, she doesn't scale very well with Crit, so if you aren't going AS/Crit, you're most likely going AS/tank, because that's how it works, people.

On top of that, she's the kind of bruiser that can take only one offense item and focus on defense for the rest of her build.

Saying that a bruiser is suffering because they can't build a purely offensive item is like complaining that a mage can't afford to build a full tank item.

Lumus AvatarMar 31, 20157 votes

But full tank Shyvana with a Wit's End and Ravenous Hydra is a pretty tough competitor

VecuuMar 31, 20151 votes

My friend recently discovered that a Shyv with Devourer, Hydra, and a couple tank items can solo Baron fairly easily.

killd0zerMar 31, 20155 votes

It's definitely an advantage early game at least.

KingsgraveMar 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's definitely an advantage early game at least.

I suppose, but Shyvana already has a lot of magic damage on her autos. Its odd that she can't itemize her main scaling damage source.

67chromeMar 31, 20153 votes

The main thing people should be focusing on is that you also can't itemize your damage when playing that character

Most hybrid champions do stupid amounts of damage without items though, there general build plan is build full tank, get damage for free (where marksman, mages, and assassins build full damage and get mobility and/or range for free).

Hybrid damage is essentially a Last Whisper or Void Staff for free for early/mid game, which can make a lot of tanky DPS a serious threat early/mid.

Also - it's important to consider a lot of champions that do a ton of damage with Whipser or Void do peanuts for damage without itemizing for damage, which would be an awful thing to do to a tanky DPS champion like Shyvana.

Better that she's hybrid with a lot of damage up front kept in check by a lack of scaling potential so she's a tanky DPS when she builds tanky, over giving her the option to be tanky Or deal damage.

CrettMar 31, 20152 votes

Here's how you do Shyvana. item 3718 item 3068 item 3143 item 3009 item 3065 item 3110 Sunfire cape and W gives you massive aura AoE damage, Q does physical and magical damage AND % health damage from E. You're tanky enough to do whatever you want, no one can run from you and the only person who can survive you is Trundle

Late game, sell Sunfire for a Warmog's or Banshee's

KingsgraveMar 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Here's how you do Shyvana. Sunfire cape and W gives you massive aura AoE damage, Q does physical and magical damage AND % health damage from E. You're tanky enough to do whatever you want and the only person who can survive you is Trundle

Why pick her over everyone else who can do that build?

CrettMar 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Why pick her over everyone else who can do that build?

Because she synergizes very well with the build. Her kit favors attack speed with all her abilities, making Devourer a natural pick. Her scaling isn't very high, but her potential damage with devourer and her bases (especially on her E) makes her a complete raid-boss late-game with how tanky she can build on top of it

Try it Boots of Swiftness are actually important with her I've found. You become just about unkitable (unless you're fighting kalista)

KazaashiMar 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Why pick her over everyone else who can do that build?

Because that is who you used in your example.

Think about it this way:

I'm Kayle mid and I just scored a double kill. The enemy, realizing that Kayle usually goes AP, buys MR to combat this. I, as a smart player, note their item builds and go AD as Kayle scales just as hard of AD items as AP items. The MR is now useless.

That is what they mean by it is hard to itemize against mixed dmg champions.

KingsgraveMar 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Because that is who you used in your example.

Think about it this way:

I'm Kayle mid and I just scored a double kill. The enemy, realizing that Kayle usually goes AP, buys MR to combat this. I, as a smart player, note their item builds and go AD as Kayle scales just as hard of AD items as AP items. The MR is now useless.

That is what they mean by it is hard to itemize against mixed dmg champions.

Kayle has hybrid pen as a passive.

KazaashiMar 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Kayle has hybrid pen as a passive.

Right, but I am talking about the flexibility in builds that it offers. Teemo falls into a similar category.

DragoonRuinMar 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Because that is who you used in your example.

Think about it this way:

I'm Kayle mid and I just scored a double kill. The enemy, realizing that Kayle usually goes AP, buys MR to combat this. I, as a smart player, note their item builds and go AD as Kayle scales just as hard of AD items as AP items. The MR is now useless.

That is what they mean by it is hard to itemize against mixed dmg champions.

Your right in saying Kayle has Hybrid Pen as a passive.

You are completely wrong saying she scales as well with AD as she does with AP. Every single one of her abilities scales with AP, Not one of them scales with AD, so you'd be left with nothing but a short ranged Auto Attacker who's Q did no damage, W healed for nothing, and her E would deal next to no splash damage.

It's obviously NOT scaling nearly as well.

lB2kGRlc8yApr 1, 20151 votes

Her Q scales on (1.0) of her AD, so damage wise, AD and AP Kayle are fairly evenly matched. The only thing AD Kayle doesn't get is the increased effect of her heal, which isn't crippling, but still inconvenient.

Titanium70Mar 31, 20152 votes

Same with Kayle , her Kit screams:

item 3078 item 3124 item 3146 (Hybrid scalings/ Hybrid Pen passive /AA steroid that scales with AP and while having an AD AOE effect)

What do you build instead: A) item 3710 item 3085 item 3091 item 3115 or B) item 3089 item 3100 item 3135 or even C) item 3031 item 3046 item 3035

You either ignore her sclaings completely or you barely use half of her Passive, thats horrible!

PerishSoftlyApr 1, 20152 votes

Her passive feels like more of a "buy BC and Wit's and resist shred the entire enemy team"

NorthernDruidApr 1, 20152 votes

The problem with hybrid builds is that while item 3078 is a nice pick, it's not really a hybrid pick, it's a light AD+AS boost on top of some fantastic burst, and you get some extra Health, Mana, AP and crit along the ride.

Trinity force is a solid item for most champs who would consider a hybrid build though.

The real problem lies with the other AD+AP items.

item 3146 Is kinda great on the champs who can use it, even better after it was upgraded to 80 AP. The only real problem (aside from how few characters really benefit well from the spellvamp) is that if you benefit from the Lifesteal, you'd probably rather build BotRK out of your cutlass.

item 3124 Is fantastic, but situational, it takes time to stack up and doesn't really give all that much interesting benefits until you can proc the unique passive.

If you want AP and AS, with a boost to your Autoattacks then you've got Nashor's Tooth to do the job more stably, and with better scaling.

If you want AP, AD, Lifesteal and Spellvamp then Gunblade gives you a nice active to go along with stably availible sustain.

In general, when building hybrid, it doesn't always feel like you're getting enough out of it, except for Triforce, which gives you everything and then some extra bonus stuff you don't really need.

GloriousKaiserMar 31, 20151 votes

Darius

KingsgraveMar 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If his passive did physical damage it would scale super hard with his E passive and he could fully shred someone with Black Cleaver

GloriousKaiserMar 31, 20151 votes

And for Darius, this is good. The passive is minimal and has to be stacked. Darius likes sustained fights. The magic damage was to ensure that he wouldn't do exactly what you said. Do you want Darius to be able to crush armor builders even more? The E passive is so he can have somewhat of an acceptable lategame. Besides, I would hate how his passive would basically give free blood stacks.

LissamaMar 31, 20151 votes

It is not hard to fix.

Sire HippingtonMar 31, 20151 votes

depends on the champ. most bruisers/offtanks can't really afort %pen, so they go better with hybrid damage, but damage focused champs are usually better if not hybrid, atleast lategame. Early to mid they actually have an advantage, and depending on your teamcomp it can be quite helpfull aswell,

KazaashiMar 31, 20151 votes

AA's scale 1.0-2.0 depending on Crit (1-2.5 if you have IE). That is pretty beast scaling.

If Kayle builds AD. Your team has basically two adcs. Kayle also has a Slow, speed up, and a 3 sec invulnerability. You will have increased pushing power and still have amazing dmg.

TheI3igDaddyApr 1, 20151 votes

Skarner disagrees.

You grab devourer and IBG, then go full tank, and you can outdamage a LOT of people with just those items. Imagine if you add Rageblade into the mix.

Kitten of EvilApr 1, 20151 votes

Why did you pick Shyv? You should have picked Varus or MF as examples -- both do a mix of magic and physical (MF more so, and her scalings are weird -- magic damage on-hit scales with AD, ult physical damage scales with AP?)