The only information vision score provides you with is who to flame for not warding, and that can wait/ was already accessible after the game. It's far more pertinent to know how many charges your allies have. Why was this changed?
Warlord Rhinark9 votesSupport players didn't feel they got enough appreciation so now they feel validated when they can constantly ping their vision score
[sg-miss-fortune]
koshkyra4 votesbc the game needs more reasons to flame your teammates
i just had a jinx troll me because my vision score was only 36 at 20 mins and "supp should have 50 score at 20 mins, 80 at 30"
Ok sure but why3 votesAnd if you're a support that uses lots of wards in the jungle every time you go out to a contestable area, ward, recall, and repeat, the wards that you replace before they expire don't even count towards your ward score
[zombie-brand-mindblown] so it's just sad
DorkunedAuras1 votesHow is that relevant?
The Ecdysiast1 votesTo be fair, he's pointing out the fact that even despite ward count being replaced with vision score, we don't even get a correctly functioning vision score.
So yeah, he was right. It makes the whole issue even sadder that the unneeded vision score doesn't even function properly.
Ok sure but why2 votesAh, a fellow man of culture
SociopathFriend3 votesBecause vision exists beyond wards placed. Teemo for example gets plenty of vision with shrooms- not wards. Ashe gets a ton of vision with hawkshot- not wards.
koshkyra2 votesOkay yeah but why is that relevant to the topic?
Tonyvision1 votes{quoted}Okay yeah but why is that relevant to the topic?
the entire point of wanting to be able to see who has ward charges is so the team knows who can ward at any given moment—which is counteracted by vision-giving abilities such as Ashe hawkshot, Teemo shrooms, Lux lucent singularity, etc., as they're also another form of vision outside of wards.
it's relevant to the topic because, as said above, the main need for visible ward charges is so that the team knows who can grant vision, however there are other ways outside of wards that can give vision.
Rins Thigh Socks1 votesYou can still left click on your teammate to see their ward count iirc
The Ecdysiast14 votesBut you gotta do that for each ally. And still, vision score provides no usable information.
Automated Riven1 votesWhy does how many wards they have available matter?
ShadowGlaive2136 votesIf supports have their trinket on CD and there's no vision in the river during laning you can look to see if your bot laner has a charge on their trinket and ping it and the river to request vision or vice versa. If they see they don't have a charge either you can take that as a cue to play more defensively. There are other less frequent situations like jungle invades and contesting dragons which if you could see how many charges your teammates have it would save a lot of pinging your trinket is on cd and waiting for them to ping that their trinket is also on cd.
The Ecdysiast3 votesExactly what the other guy said. If your support has no charges to ward an objective, it's very pertinent to figure out who does.
JonneeG1 votes[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2BgFwoFE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-14T23:21:43.235+0000)
Why does how many wards they have available matter?
Because then you know if you can can ask your ally to ward, if their wards are not on cd, was especially useful for botlane in laning phase.
BLACK REALM GOD1 votes[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2BgFwoFE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-14T11:05:44.886+0000)
But you gotta do that for each ally. And still, vision score provides no usable information.
you could say the same thing about creep score...
Daffodi13 votesyou could say that, but you'd be mistaken. cs is helpful when calculating gold differentials and overall team gold.
BLACK REALM GOD1 votesyou could say that, but you'd be mistaken. cs is helpful when calculating gold differentials and overall team gold.
which doesnt need to be calculated because every item is shown if you have vision of an opponent and can be easily calculated from that alone. in fact i'd argue that gold lead is less important than power lead.
not to mention you cant calculate jungle camps the same as minions. nor is every minion the same value. someone who has 30 siege minions has more gold than someone who has 30 caster or 30 melee minions. so that number is just as arbitrary.
The Ecdysiast1 votesYou can average it out, and tell by the opponent's current items and creep score whether or not they're going to come back to lane much stronger than before-- allowing you to judge whether or not it's more worth it to recall before they return or stay and go for a bit more farm.
Point being, there is an actual use for creep score.
Conversely, vision score provides no usable information whatsoever-- aside from providing evidence to flame or think lesser of your allies, as I said. And I'll admit that thinking lesser of your allies might help in the event you need to decide between trusting them or saving yourself, but ward score doesn't actually tell you anything about their ability to press R as Soraka.
BLACK REALM GOD1 votes[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2BgFwoFE,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-15T07:42:23.032+0000)
You can average it out, and tell by the opponent's current items and creep score whether or not they're going to come back to lane much stronger than before-- allowing you to judge whether or not it's more worth it to recall before they return or stay and go for a bit more farm.
Point being, there is an actual use for creep score.
Conversely, vision score provides no usable information whatsoever-- aside from providing evidence to flame or think lesser of your allies, as I said. And I'll admit that thinking lesser of your allies might help in the event you need to decide between trusting them or saving yourself, but ward score doesn't actually tell you anything about their ability to press R as Soraka.
ward score allows you to see who's placing wards, but it also allows you to see where the opponents are frequenting on the map. ward score will barely increase from placing a ward, but increases dramatically if you place a ward and it spots an opponent or several opponents. and that's only if it's a sight trinket or eye.
if it's a lense then you can see where wards are being placed through early game and each ward removed is worth 10-30 gold. which adds to that value of gold.
then there are abilities that also grant vision and vision score. had a zyra in one of my games get over 50 vision score thanks to her plants.
the information is there to make people feel like warding is important. and while it's not necessarily brilliant deduction nor is it great sportsmanship to berate an ally who sucks at warding, it is an opportunity to give them a tip on where to ward in the future as well as for them to learn on their own.
but for the most part it was added as a sort of pick me up for the supports since they're mostly in charge of warding now. as a sort of "your warding does matter"
i'll be honest it could be better represented, but so could a lot of things.
the point you addressed is that ward score doesnt provide any information other than to flame an ally. i've already proven that to be false with the few examples i've given. it provides some information. whether or not you think that information is useful or worth using is mostly an opinion.
your point of creep score showing you how much gold an opponent has is still not valid. it doesnt help predict the gold difference. it can help you estimate, but not much else. just as kills no longer provide adequate information about gold and xp thanks to the new bounty system. for example if a jungler goes to raptors then krugs and prefers that side of the map they're going to have higher creep score than someone who's going for gromp and skuttles. same thing with being in lane. if your opponent has 80 creep score they could have anywhere between 1500 and 7200 gold depending on what minions/camps they've farmed and how far along the game has progressed. 80 early game farm is not the same as 80 late game farm since minions and camps increase in gold value. baron, drake, dragon, and herald also all count as creep score and whoever kills that unit gets a hefty gold chunk. it might not always be the jungler that does so. when relic shield, loaded dice, or parley gets involved it gets even more dicey to try and guess gold based on creep score. super minions are also a factor.
the only exception to this rule is if they've never missed a single creep the entire game and have literally only been in 1 lane the entire game with no one else coming into their lane to smite or last hit a creep. then you can say with 100% certainty that they have a certain amount of gold. but that's never going to happen because it only takes 30 seconds for a wave to arrive and it takes longer than that to recall and teleport back if you're buying items.
now - this information because of the certainty that high creep score means victory is more likely is CONSTANTLY used to berate teammates. im sure you've heard a few of the common insults. "this bot cant last hit" "wtf 32 cs at 10 minutes?" "stop stealing my CS!" "this jungle only has 15 cs" etc.
if it were me... the only thing you could see about a player would be the player's health, mana/energy/etc., and level.
because everything else is used to flame allies.
items - flamed for not building correctly wards - flamed for not warding summoner spells - flamed for not saving allies ultimate - flamed for not using it to full effect creep score - flamed for not last hitting k/d/a - flamed for "feeding" "kill stealing" "not assisting"
so i mean... it's all pertinent information, but it's also tools for flaming. that's not a problem with the game, but a problem with the players.
Modl Ryden l1 votesFINALLY a thread worth reading!