% penetration items and black cleaver need reworked.

Hibeki··2 votes·901 views

Completely, there is no reason a % penetration item should increase your damage by 35% against armored champions and STILL have a nice chunk of offensive stats to K.O. a squishy.

They need reworked to have the offensive stat COMPLETELY removed, and granted % armor and magic resist (Respectively) to each upon damaging them. Flat penetration items can stay AS IS, with the exception of black cleaver, which will either be removed or reworked.

Having no offensive stats means this is no longer a staple item for carries, freeing them up to build something that will benefit them more. This also means it will be a pick on supporting and tank champions to reduce their defensive stats so their allies can hit harder.

Having it be something like 3000g, 5% BONUS resistance shredding, stacking over 4 seconds (up to 4 times for a total of 20% BONUS resistance shred)[This does not stack if multiple of these are purchased on a team, it will still be a 20% shred, but is easier to stack], then lingering for x seconds after achieving full stacks, coupled with some NONE OFFENSIVE STATS will make this a good pick for tanks or supports if you see the enemy is building heavy armor or magic resist against your bulk damage.

This also means the WHOLE TEAM has more damage, but you need to commit to this item.

I think this is a great idea, but has some nooks and crannies, though this is what riot's team is paid to figure it out.

20 Comments

Rebonack1 votes

Whisper builds out of Longsword and a massive combine cost, granting 10 AD and 50% BONUS Armor penetration.

Voidstaff builds out of Tome and a massive combine cost, granting 20 AP and 50% BONUS MR penetration.

There, now there's actually a choice involved in buying one. They would be nice for punching through hard targets, but they're highly cost inefficient against soft foes.

Hibeki1 votes

50% bonus armor penetration is too big, especially on one with already high base damage, or Yasuo.

Imagine a yasuo having 100% bonus armor penetration, critting you for near true damage.

I mean it's not exactly hard to have decent damage with only 4 item slots, I was trying to make a solution that would have damage from one target lowered, while not breaking the item, and possibly assist your allies as well.

Duke Anax1 votes

Bonus armor means, only armor from items, not the natural armor of the champ.

That would mean penetration does nothing to someone that hasn't build defenses. Thus actually making it a choice whether to build the item.

Right now the way defense it is set up, %pen, casues almost the same %damage increase on squishies as on full build tanks. And considering the amount of base armor of all high level champs, there is very few cases were flat penetration is actually higher than last whisper.

Hibeki1 votes

That still, limiting someone to their base armor almost only is just...not okay.

Duke Anax1 votes

Ah I think you missed a detail those kinda effects are almost always unique and definitely should be in this case.

So you wont be able to get 100%.

Also 50% bonus is actually weaker than 35% full untill the tank builds his third armor item.

Hibeki1 votes

Yes, but this means ANY armor you build is LESS efficient than it was before.

Base armor was negligable, as it wasn't something you had to prevent further damage, it was just your stat. Your champion takes X damage without building a resistance.

Any build path is now even WEAKER than it is before, base armor of 60-70 is absolutely none effectant.

I don't know, I just don't like that an enemy with LW was able to do deal MORE damage to you than if you had no armor built and he had no armor pen.

Duke Anax1 votes

Yes armor is less efficient, but only if the enemy has penetration, but that is the point of penetration. However with this change them having a LW would no longer gonna be certain, or even likely.

And base armor is actually huge, the lower the armor, the higher the effect per point. 100 armor gets you to 50% damage taken. 50 armor already gets you to 66%.

And it won't cause more damage, let me give you the values:

Champ with 100 AD: (200 AD would be everything times 2, etc)

no LW: 50 Base 0 Armor : 66 dmg 50 Base 50 Armor : 50 dmg 50 Base 100 Armor: 40 dmg 50 Base 200 Armor: 29 dmg

100 Base 0 Armor: 50 dmg 100 Base 100 Armor: 33 dmg 100 Base 200 Armor: 25 dmg 100 Base 300 armor: 20 dmg

current LW (-35% armor): 50 Base 0 Armor : 76 dmg (+10 dmg) (+15%) 50 Base 50 Armor : 60 dmg (+10 dmg) (+20%) 50 Base 100 Armor: 50 dmg (+10 dmg) (+25%) 50 Base 200 Armor: 38 dmg (+9 dmg) (+31%)

100 Base 0 Armor: 60 dmg (+10 dmg) (+20%) 100 Base 100 Armor: 43 dmg (+10 dmg) (+30%) 100 Base 200 Armor: 34 dmg (+10 dmg) (+36%) 100 Base 300 Armor: 28 dmg (+8 dmg) (+40%)

new LW (-50% bonus armor) 50 Base 0 Armor : 66 dmg (+0 dmg) (+0%) 50 Base 50 Armor : 57 dmg (+7 damage) (+14%) 50 Base 100 Armor: 50 dmg (+10 damage) (+25%) 50 Base 200 Armor: 40 dmg (+11 dmg) (+38%)

100 Base 0 Armor: 50 dmg (+0 dmg) (+0%) 100 Base 100 Armor: 40 dmg (+7 dmg) (+21%) 100 Base 200 Armor: 33 dmg (+8 dmg) (+32%) 100 Base 300 armor: 29 dmg (+9 dmg) (+45%)

Hibeki1 votes

Actually, the % reduction isn't accurate. It's deceiving.

What armor ACTUALLY does, is each point of armor is an ADDITIONAL point of physical damage to deal 100 damage to your HP. Having 1 armor means it takes 101 damage to deal 100 damage to your health, and so on and so forth. It's only halved in the perspective that it originally took 100, now it takes 200.

Duke Anax1 votes

Yes, and? whats your point there.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Well, at least we can delete League of Tanks. Anything for that.

Hibeki1 votes

No ideas?

FyshinaTux1 votes

I'm working (in my spare time) on a completely new item list (EVERYTHING will change (with my item list... I doubt Riot would implement it...)).

I'll be posting it to the boards once I'm finished (I suspect sometime just after new years) for the community's thoughts.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Silly you, squishies nowadays have insane mobility(Kalista, Ezreal, Vayne, Trist, LB, Ahri), and a lot of them also has CC/knockbacks to make them even more cancer to dive. If anything, they should die FASTER, so it actually makes a difference when you burst them down. What's the point of killing the AP after he or she uses a full rotation or two? His or her dmg is already dealt, the goal has been reached...

Hibeki1 votes

4 out of 6 of those you forgot to mention are ADC's, those are a completely other problem.

LB was and is unfair in the regards that she can be in 4 places at once, having insane safety.

AP's now a days can KO whole teams by themselves, and champions like Syndra and Ziggs have high AOE damage and Burst yet still have low cooldowns to fight back after a rotation

Epilogue of Life1 votes

If you kill a Syndra AFTER she ulted your ADC/stunned half your team, the accomplishment is so much less significant if you just blew her up before she could even cast a spell. The point is, killing carries need to be done fast to get the most, or actually anything, out of it.

Hibeki1 votes

Meanwhile other 4 teammates....

Epilogue of Life1 votes

The carry is the most threatening damage source, AKA the person that actually do the killing. Killing the carry before they do their jobs is similar to disarming a man before he stabs you with his knife.

Hibeki1 votes

No, It's similar to disarming one mans knife while the rest stab you while you are dealing with him

Epilogue of Life1 votes

The team SHOULD work as a whole, if everyone on the enemy team feels like an entire team already, I suggest you surrender because you can't fking win...

Phife1 votes

stfu

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