why does his Q get almost the same power from lvl 1 to 5? the bonus damage doesn't crit, so his Q literally just get +80 damage by putting 5 lvl into it, this is bullshit.
what if the knock up duration scalled with lvl? 0.5/0.625/0.75/0.875/1 second instead of 1/1/1/1/1?
Marshbouy7 votesHe is punished. He loses out on damage on his Q that he would normally get from maxing his Q, but it just so happens that his E is a better max during the laning phase. Can we punish pantheon for maxing Q in lane? Can we make his stun scale with level too?
MohawkBird37 votes[deleted]
Marshbouy2 votesIt's the same way that Pantheon gets more damage by maxing his Q than his W.
Yasuo is still losing out on tornado damage if he maxes E first.
Unpaladin13 votesYou mean the tornados he doesn't miss in situations he isn't going in with it anyway? What's that in a laning phase, like 3-4 tornadoes? And the Q damage is only flat, which isn't anything special unless you want to poke the shit out of your laner and even then dash cheese is still about as good if not better in most scenarios.
Keep in mind that while his Q cooldown will be lower after he goes back and gets Daggers, that's around the point the E max starts to kick in making him the most flexible melee champion in the game. His engage potential and damage mitigation with that one ability and passive is so fucking good that it allows him to beat a large portion of the top lane roster without investing into his DPS ability at all
Ahristocats11 votesCan we punish pantheon for maxing Q in lane? Can we make his stun scale with level too?
it used to, from 0.5 to 2 seconds then riot did a mini rework to pantheon and made his W 1.5 sec at all rank, then nerfed it to 1 sec using pantheon is also awful since his kit is toxic and should be reworked
and Yasuo isn't punished by maxing E, he loses damage on Q but overall he gains more damage, not talking about his mobility and his knock up duration is the same at all ranks
Blackstone015 votesBut the only way to argue Yasuo doesn't have an overbearing or toxic kit is by using examples from overbearing or toxic kits.
DunkinNoobs5 votesHis Q CD used to go down with rank 5/4.75/4.5/4.25/4. This forced Yasuo to max Q first in most situations. However, after all the nerfs Yasuo got during season 4, his early game was left far too weak, so Riot changed his Q CD to 4 seconds at all ranks, allowing Yasuo to max E first instead. At the time, this was an extremely necessary buff; Yasuo could barely survive lane even against champs he was supposed to counter and top lane Yasuo was basically unplayable. Since then, Yasuo has received both an early game shield buff as well as a number of indirect buffs from item and mastery changes. At this point, Yasuo's early game is perhaps a bit too strong, and could stand to be nerfed a tad.
I actually have a few ideas on the matter:
First off, they could just trim some power off the shield. 100 shield at lvl 1 is an awful lot in a world where Warlords exists. Nerfing to 80 at lvl 1 seems like a reasonable reduction. Second, we could increase the E stacks back to 4 but reduce the base damage so you now need 4 stacks to do the same damage as you currently so with 2 stacks. This would require Yasuo to stack his E more in lane to do meaningful damage, giving the enemy more time to prepare and forcing Yasuo to push more if he wants to trade aggressively in lane. A third idea is to make his tornado duration scale with Q rank. Instead of lasting 10 seconds at all ranks, make it 6/7/8/9/10 scaling with Q rank. This makes Yasuos zoning with tornado charged weaker during the laning phase.
Ahristocats2 votesthat seems good but isn't 6 seconds still a lot for his tornado?
ps: 80 hp shield instead of 100 would be a massive nerf considering yasuo base stats
DunkinNoobs3 votesIt's a hell of a lot less than 10. 6 seconds instead of 10 until lvl 8 will make a pretty big difference during his laning phase.
As for the shield nerf, it's not as significant as you might think. It used to be only 60 shield at lvl 1, and given it's short duration, the 40 extra shield is rarely applicable against most champions. 20 less shield would make even less of a difference, but it would make him less oppressive early against melee champions in top lane.
Nøstalgia1 votesOh man i love these ideas,would be so nice if they actually do it even if they probs wont The E change would also force people to think more about what they do early on,i like that
japan hate acc5 votesJust putting it out there, Yasuo's SUPPOSED TO MAX E
NiceTryVi24 votesOP knows that, he wants riot to make it so that Yas doesn't get the mobility from E and extra damage on E, while Q gets only a minor damage increase at each rank. In other words, make Q not good at rank 1, so Yasuo's have to level it for it to be good, instead of keeping it at rank 1 because it is just as effective.
WhatAGeinius4 votesWow gee it's almost like literally every champion in the game has a skill like that.
NiceTryVi6 votesWow gee it's almost like literally every champion in the game has a skill like that.
Name 10 that do. Almost every single champ in the game has better level scaling on their abilities than only 20 base dmg per rank. Q does not lower CD or increase knockup time, all it does is add a bit of flat damage with each rank.
SpecterVonBaren3 votesSkarner..... fuck that rework...
Spaceman5pff1 votesMany champions have a "one point wonder spell".
Thing is, they pretty much all have just one of those. Yasuo has 2 of them, Q and W. Camille has 2, Q and W.
Having a single one pointer is perfectly ok.
Shroud
hawkshot
moonfall
Riposte
Condemn
lantern.
Safeguard.
Pool.
Smokescreen.
Pillar.
Gravity Field.
Parkour.
Am I listing abilities champs max last? Yes. Are they one pointers ONLY because they are maxed last? No. They are maxed last BECAUSE they are one point wonders.
They don't scale super well with levels, and do their job just fine at level 1. Notice a trend? The one point wonders are not tools for directly dealing damage. Some may deal a bit of damage, yeah, but the idea when casting them is not "oooh this will do a fuckton of damage"
Q damage scales with champion level making it a one point wonder damage spell allowing her to max her mobility first, giving her excessive chasing and gapclosing power. Her W slow is plenty powerful at rank 1 and doesn't need to be maxed. If any spell in her kit should be the one point wonder, it should be this or E. Not Q.
Q gets everything it wants from one point, explained in this thread. W does its job very well at rank 1, yes it scales nicely with levels by widening, but it is plenty powerful at rank 1 making it a 1 point wonder.
zu3CynhWtj1 votesMany champions have a "one point wonder spell".
Thing is, they pretty much all have just one of those. Yasuo has 2 of them, Q and W. Camille has 2, Q and W.
Having a single one pointer is perfectly ok.
Am I listing abilities champs max last? Yes. Are they one pointers ONLY because they are maxed last? No. They are maxed last BECAUSE they are one point wonders.
They don't scale super well with levels, and do their job just fine at level 1. Notice a trend? The one point wonders are not tools for directly dealing damage. Some may deal a bit of damage, yeah, but the idea when casting them is not "oooh this will do a fuckton of damage"
yas q is dmg, not a utility
Spaceman5pff1 votesCorrect, and in healthy champions, one point wonder spells are utility, not damage.
Yasuo and Camille have the same problem which is that they have damage spells that function fine at rank 1, allowing them to max utility spells while still having their damage scale fine.
zu3CynhWtj1 votesCorrect, and in healthy champions, one point wonder spells are utility, not damage.
Yasuo and Camille have the same problem which is that they have damage spells that function fine at rank 1, allowing them to max utility spells while still having their damage scale fine.
yas e is both
Spaceman5pff1 votesYou mean to tell me that an ability which is designed to have little use as a damage tool, is designed to be a damage tool?
The internal cooldown on each target is a blatant effort to keep it from being a damage tool.
zu3CynhWtj1 votesYou mean to tell me that an ability which is designed to have little use as a damage tool, is designed to be a damage tool?
The internal cooldown on each target is a blatant effort to keep it from being a damage tool.
and yet it's yasuos primary dmg in lane
Spaceman5pff1 votesSo what you mean to tell me, is that around when yasuo hits level 6, Camille will get a magic damage shield by hitting him? Because when you say that is his PRIMARY DAMAGE, that is what I am getting out of it.
What you are telling me is that, to itemize vs Yasuo I should rush 
rather than 
?
Because telling me he primarily deals magic damage indicates I should be doing that.
Because I was under the impression that Yasuo got most of his damage from hitting you with auto attacks and Q.
http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo
Oh wait, he does about 90% physical damage.
zu3CynhWtj1 votesSo what you mean to tell me, is that around when yasuo hits level 6, Camille will get a magic damage shield by hitting him? Because when you say that is his PRIMARY DAMAGE, that is what I am getting out of it.
What you are telling me is that, to itemize vs Yasuo I should rush
Because I was under the impression that Yasuo got most of his damage from hitting you with auto attacks and Q.
http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo
Oh wait, he does about 90% physical damage.
bronze af
Spaceman5pff1 votesGosh isn't it such a good thing I don't listen to stupid people like you?
zu3CynhWtj1 votesGosh isn't it such a good thing I don't listen to stupid people like you?
this is why i quit lol because of people like you
DarkSunSovereign2 votesSwain E gets 30 dmg period. Oh, and an increased mana cost. Yay. Can we give Yasuo mana?
unicorngirl13 votesHow would u punish him tho? Do u mean in the terms of dmg or literally?
Ahristocats12 votesright now maxing E gives yasuo more damage+mobility
Q utility is the same at all rank and he doesn't lose anything since E gives more damage
Breaku5 votesRight now maxing E gives more damage and more utility.
OP wants to switch it so you have to pick between damage (Q) and utility (E).
Bultz3 votes[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=23i4LUwP,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-23T19:20:44.615+0000)
why does his Q get almost the same power from lvl 1 to 5? the bonus damage doesn't crit, so his Q literally just get +80 damage by putting 5 lvl into it, this is bullshit.
what if the knock up duration scalled with lvl? 0.5/0.625/0.75/0.875/1 second instead of 1/1/1/1/1?
You want to punish a champion for leveling a skill. Seriously stupid posts everyday which are based on no logic ughh
Looknook3 votesHe wants him to be punished for not leveling the ability. His suggestion was that the utility from Q be less if Yasou doesn't level it to tone down his laning phase and to make Yasou have a choice. More damage and mobility or more utility? That is the choice that he was getting at. There would be no punishment for leveling Q in his senario.
Bultz2 votesHe wants him to be punished for not leveling the ability. His suggestion was that the utility from Q be less if Yasou doesn't level it to tone down his laning phase and to make Yasou have a choice. More damage and mobility or more utility? That is the choice that he was getting at. There would be no punishment for leveling Q in his senario.
So you want to force the player into a pre determined play style? Again no.
BeatzBoyFTW5 votesWe have people going either AD or AP Rengar.
We have people playing Nasus by maxing either Q for the stackings, or E for the lane pressure & waveclear.
We have people playing AD or AP Shaco.
We have people playing Teemo by maxing either Q for the longer Blind duration, or E for doing better DoTs.
But God forbid to have Yasuo be getting any ability weakness at all if he were to max E instead of Q.
Bultz1 votesWe have people going either AD or AP Rengar.
This is in no way related to forcing a champion who can one hit others to build ad or ap, even though he can freely build both.
We have people playing Nasus by maxing either Q for the stackings, or E for the lane pressure & waveclear.
Nasus always builds q wtf the only time anyone with a brain would build e is when Nasus is ap and that is rarely.
We have people playing AD or AP Shaco.
again focing a champion to build ap or ad is not related.
We have people playing Teemo by maxing either Q for the longer Blind duration, or E for doing better DoTs.
teemo choosing between one doesn't take away from he other.
But God forbid to have Yasuo be getting any ability weakness at all if he were to max E instead of Q.
E does no damage and would cripple his play style if he were forced to play it against q. Unless you want his dashes to do as much damage as his q late game I suggest you drop it. His q begins at 20 damage with one level, meaning he does near no damage with it, meanwhile champions like leblanc and Ahri do near 200+ damage with one level of any skill. SO unless you want to force Yasuo to build e and give him equal damage in it to compensate for him not doing any damage at all early game, I suggest you stop bsing.
BeatzBoyFTW4 votesNasus always builds q wtf the only time anyone with a brain would build e is when Nasus is ap and that is rarely.
I suggest you do a bit of research & more Nasus games, as the Max E Nasus is a tad common even in Normals now (thanks to Quas).
teemo choosing between one doesn't take away from he other.
If he maxes Q, he'll do some burst from that ability itself while his E does minimal damage. If he maxes E, his Q does pathetic damage & has such a low Blind duration. That's the trade he has to do.
E does no damage and would cripple his play style if he were forced to play it against q. Unless you want his dashes to do as much damage as his q late game I suggest you drop it. His q begins at 20 damage with one level, meaning he does near no damage with it, meanwhile champions like leblanc and Ahri do near 200+ damage with one level of any skill. SO unless you want to force Yasuo to build e and give him equal damage in it to compensate for him not doing any damage at all early game, I suggest you stop bsing.
Maxing E is mainly due to having his cooldown reduced so he would be continuously dashing with no tiny halt, making him highly mobile while being annoying in-lane at early game, especially against champions like Sion.
Putting Q at one point does not change the utility it provides, such as his knock-up plus the already low CD it has. Yasuo players would typically still have the same mentality of attempting to double minions, and then awaits to EQ onto the enemy laner, and while the enemy's knocked up, the same knock-up duration of point 1-5 would give Yasuo plenty of time to AA on him. This is what I hate seeing the most, and is where I would usually support this change:
Knock-up duration changed to 0.5/0.625/0.75/0.875/1 second instead of 1/1/1/1/1.
Max Q for the damage & utility? Or max E for the mobility?
Bultz1 votesI suggest you do a bit of research & more Nasus games, as the Max E Nasus is a tad common even in Normals now (thanks to Quas).
Common or not it is a stupid move and will only end badly. Maxing anything before Q leaves you easily shot down and easy to kill. Nasus is meant to farm under tower until mid game, doing anything else just leaves you exposed in lane and gets you kill.
If he maxes Q, he'll do some burst from that ability itself while his E does minimal damage. If he maxes E, his Q does pathetic damage & has such a low Blind duration. That's the trade he has to do.
Teemo also does a ton of free damage with poison. As for building blind before damage in a lane where he is solo, that is always a stupid idea. Same with nasus, the trade off for a few seconds in lane over a ton of damage is stupid. Anyone building blind over burst damage will lose lane to an agro player.
Maxing E is mainly due to having his cooldown reduced so he would be continuously dashing with no tiny halt, making him highly mobile while being annoying in-lane at early game, especially against champions like Sion.
Yeah By no means will they give Yasuo's e a cooldown reduction. That would by far be the dumbest idea. He is a mobile champion and you people need to realize his kit is one of the smoothest in game, if not in any game. Clunking it up like that would be stupid thing to do on riots part because Yasuo's popularity is huge for one thing and would kill his entire early game, along with his kit. As for being effective against Sion, any Sion with skill will crush Yasuo. Sion's durability and damage easily outweigh Mobility.
Putting Q at one point does not change the utility it provides, such as his knock-up plus the already low CD it has. Yasuo players would typically still have the same mentality of attempting to double minions, and then awaits to EQ onto the enemy laner, and while the enemy's knocked up, the same knock-up duration of point 1-5 would give Yasuo plenty of time to AA on him. This is what I hate seeing the most, and is where I would usually support this change:
Listen you clearly have no clue how Yasuo or the game works. Nerfing Yasuo simply because people find him annoying is not going to happen, ever. At a 48% win rate, 16th bets mid laner, flawless kit which is none oppressive, having plenty of counters, a champion based purely on player skill, Yasuo is by no means in for nerfs. Or kit changes.
Max Q for the damage & utility? Or max E for the mobility?
Again you clearly don't understand Yasuo, and this isn't going to happen.
intra5 votes[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesOkay that one sentence. Holy. You do realize E max nasus is prefered by high dia+ ? Those players don't have a brain? Take a break pls.
Bultz1 votesOkay that one sentence. Holy. You do realize E max nasus is prefered by high dia+ ? Those players don't have a brain? Take a break pls.
Listen you clearly have no fuckign clue how to play son. Judging from you match history, you don't even play nasus so please stop giiving me stupid answers. Anyone building e first has no clue how to nasus, it'll give you lane control over anyone with no dash or mobility, but other than that it is a stupid choice.
Zedex3 votesI max Q and win my lane 90% of the time. You guys would just complain about that instead of it was popular.
Teridax683 votesConsidering how Yasuo's meant to scale primarily through items and not levels, perhaps it might be better to just switch his E damage to something like 100% AD physical damage at all ranks, and remove its ramping damage, which carries no real relevance outside of the laning phase. Yasuo would lose his mixed damage, and would have the power of his E shifted a bit more towards the late game, and away from the laning phase.
Hèntaî 1 votesI feel like that would make people tilt even harder then they already do when it comes to yas. Im all for it though
Hayaishi22 votesWhy the hell should he be punished for maxing E?
Does Varus get punished for maxing Q? Or Ezreal?
Gods boars can be so retarded.
Ahristocats2 votesDoes Varus get punished for maxing Q? Or Ezreal?
they do? If you max Q as varus you lose a lot of cooldown on E and %slow on E Ezreal loses attack speed on allies on W, and cooldown on E
Yasuo's steel tempest strength is the same at all ranks unlike their spells
Anubhav Rocks2 votesand then you realize that his dashes are so VERY slow, like 0.8 cd until he levels up E. really dude
Irelia Bot2 votesSuggest that his double crit passive be put on Q or W as a passive and be 20/40/60/80/100% increased crit chance and people lose their mind since it would hurt Yasuo's play style. Even though it does not removie a part of his kit but instead make it have limitations on getting it.
Actually it would not hurt his play style but would hurt his early to mid game damage and make Yasuo consider items other then phantom dancer first.
Suspicious Xebra1 votes[deleted]
Ahristocats7 votesyou didn't read the thread then
if you did, tell me where u see more power
