It's a shame I can't do that anymore. My choices are:
Queue as jungle/support, and get support 100% of the time, and be unable to get back to plat because I'm not a support main.
Queue as jungle/mid, and be unable to get back to plat because mid isn't actually the secondary role I've been playing for 3 years.
New champion select has completely removed the fun from the game for me.
Moonshade21 votesIf it makes your feel better when the Taric update comes out you'll have about a week where u will be able to get jungle
Duke Anax1 votesWhich is especially fun when you are the Taric Jungle, "sorry sup"
Supreme Senpai691 votesBut then you see top has first pick and their pick intent is Taric.
Duke Anax4 votesThen the enemy bans Taric.
That's whn you realize what "rework" really means.
Erockandroll8 votesUltimately, there is two problems. And riot can't fix one without compounding the other.
reducing Q waiting.
getting the role you want.
Potentially with the old system. Getting the position you wanted was determined by the pick order. (Negotiation never seemed to be the usual. Not in my elo anyways.) Though the Q waiting was fantastic.
And yet, people wanted a Teambuilder for ranked play, pretty much since Team builder's conception. and yet. Teambuilder had it's own problems, namely with the wait times for a support to join.
Dynamic Q tries to meet a middle ground by giving you two choices, and say, "You will get one of those two" Allowing for more flexibility, while reducing the amount of time waiting for a support.
The only way to really eliminate both problems is to get more people interested in playing support to begin with. And that is a much bigger challenge. (namely with the stigma that supports can never carry the game.)
Jesus is Savior11 votesThe only way to really eliminate both problems is to get more people interested in playing support to begin with. And that is a much bigger challenge. (namely with the stigma that supports can never carry the game.)
Guaranteeing primary role for X number of games would also fix the problem.
Even if it was just fucking 50%, that would cause a lot of "support as a backup role" players to start playing the role again, and queue times would actually go DOWN.
Dr Poro3 votesAgreed that the system should respect the primary vs secondary more. The primary should be given at least 50% of the time. I think this is true for all situations except when you pick support as secondary. Currently, the system is like "boys, we've got a support!" and immediately puts you as that role. I personally pick fill most of the time because I don't mind supporting, but right now I'm support 80% of the time and starting to get tired of it.
NichtHurz2 votesYup, I hate this if I'm just playing a normal and want to try a new champ/build, but I just can't do it because I'm put into my secondary role after 3secs of queue for like 4 times in a row.
Erockandroll1 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-04-05T20:43:11.000+0000)
Guaranteeing primary role for X number of games would also fix the problem.
Even if it was just fucking 50%, that would cause a lot of "support as a backup role" players to start playing the role again, and queue times would actually go DOWN.
I'm pretty sure that won't be good enough. I think you over estimate how many people are in the "Won't go Support secondary, because I'll end up playing in 99% of the time" camp. And underestimate how many people are needed to play support.
The results would look similar to the old teambuilder, only with a slightly open flood gate.
And dynamic Q wasn't even suppose to work with Guaranteed percentages, it was designed to guareantee you one of two choices. Like if a friend goes into an Ice cream shop, and you ask him, "Can you get me A, or B if they don't have A"
Jesus is Savior5 votesAnd dynamic Q wasn't even suppose to work with Guaranteed percentages, it was designed to guareantee you one of two choices. Like if a friend goes into an Ice cream shop, and you ask him, "Can you get me A, or B if they don't have A"
Except he comes back and says "sorry dude, I know you wanted chocolate, and yes they had chocolate.... But man they had 10 tubs of vanilla so I got you vanilla. There was just so much of it."
Duke Anax4 votesWhich every decend Support main will tell you is bollocks.
If you are 3/2/30 in a 40 kill game, there is no doupt who carried that one.
I think the reason why high elo has no problem with lack of supports is becasue all of the good ones climb out of low elo. and the bad ones are like "muh can't carry, mid or feed"
Viperjcs19856 votesThey need to change how Primary / Secondary works. It needs to place you in Primary queue only for the first 5min. After 5min has passed it can place you in secondary queue as well. I'm honestly not sure why it is able to give you your secondary role within 5-10 seconds when it is super obvious it did not even TRY to give you primary role.
Xonra4 votesThey need to change how Primary / Secondary works. It needs to place you in Primary queue only for the first 5min. After 5min has passed it can place you in secondary queue as well. I'm honestly not sure why it is able to give you your secondary role within 5-10 seconds when it is super obvious it did not even TRY to give you primary role.
The thing is, I'm fairly certain it even saying "primary" or "secondary" is the equivalent of a placebo, as it is nothing more than "pick two roles you like". It very clearly weighs them equally, as if a team needs your secondary, it ignores the primary.
I could be wrong, but I've seen no evidence that shows me I am.
Viperjcs19852 votesThe thing is, I'm fairly certain it even saying "primary" or "secondary" is the equivalent of a placebo, as it is nothing more than "pick two roles you like". It very clearly weighs them equally, as if a team needs your secondary, it ignores the primary.
I could be wrong, but I've seen no evidence that shows me I am.
I fully believe your theory is correct. I haven't seen evidence otherwise either.
CarameI Frappe5 votesI'm in the same boat as you OP .... I can't get Jungle if I do Support second.
[zombie-nunu-bummed]
Frikgeek4 votesHow the fuck is getting your secondary role 100% of the time so much worse than getting your primary or secondary 40% of the time and being forced into the other 3 roles 60% of the time?
Jesus is Savior12 votesHow the fuck is getting your secondary role 100% of the time so much worse than getting your primary or secondary 40% of the time and being forced into the other 3 roles 60% of the time?
Normally in old draft you could negotiate and that wouldn't happen. I'm not joking when I say I probably got jungle 90-95% of the time last season.
Plus dodging is a thing. If I didn't get jungle or support I could dodge. But that's not even viable this season because of how often dynamic queue shafts you. You'd be waiting 10-20 minutes for a game and dodging almost half of them with 30 minute dodge timers.
Only Play Darius4 votesYou wouldn't get far as a jg main this season, at least not solo. I had to quit jg this season, you're lucky if the 3-4 man premade doesn't ruin your leash with lvl1 invade and kick you out of your jg, rest of the game they make it their mission to hunt you down and kill you in your own jg as if you f*cked their girlfriends or something......
Jesus is Savior1 votes[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-04-05T23:28:53.927+0000)
You wouldn't get far as a jg main this season, at least not solo. I had to quit jg this season, you're lucky if the 3-4 man premade doesn't ruin your leash with lvl1 invade and kick you out of your jg, rest of the game they make it their mission to hunt you down and kill you in your own jg as if you f*cked their girlfriends or something......
The worse problem is I have boosted bot lanes leash me with AoE and take the small monster then leave. How do you main bot and not know how to leash?
Supreme Senpai691 votesI had a singed refuse to leash me because he had to proxy farm. I was like "well this sucks, but you clearly know what you're doing, so okay. I can deal."
Around 25 seconds later he gave first blood. Like... c'mon mang.
Jesus is Savior2 votes[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2016-04-06T10:22:11.134+0000)
I had a singed refuse to leash me because he had to proxy farm. I was like "well this sucks, but you clearly know what you're doing, so okay. I can deal."
Around 25 seconds later he gave first blood. Like... c'mon mang.
No leash is fine.
Stealing my exp so I have to do my 2nd camp with half hp and I'm still level 1... THAT is not fine.
Doctor Dyment3 votesSorry about this man. My main roles are ones that are generally so asked for that they cancel each other out, namely top lane, mid lane, or the jungle. No matter what happens I get what I want, because so many people also want these lanes. Sorry that this isn't working out for you man. I understand that Dynamic Que and this new season isn't easy on supports, or people who use it as a secondary role.
GaleWinUnleashed3 votes1-5 second queue for us support mains is kinda nice, though =P
gottrjr3 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-05T15:24:43.310+0000)
It's a shame I can't do that anymore. My choices are:
Queue as jungle/support, and get support 100% of the time, and be unable to get back to plat because I'm not a support main.
Queue as jungle/mid, and be unable to get back to plat because mid isn't actually the secondary role I've been playing for 3 years.
New champion select has completely removed the fun from the game for me.
This is exactly my problem. You cannot put support as your secondary or else you get support. I want the option to have support some times and jungle other times but it isn't possible with dynamic doo.
The other problem I have is fill. I don't mind playing any role once in a while but fill = support which takes the fun out of choosing fill.
What I want to know is how the FUCK did this make it out of PBE...
FantasySniper3 votesI've got the same problem. Though I main support, when I'm literally getting it 10 times (technically it's 10.25) more often than jungle, there's something wrong here.
Zerglinglol3 votesI think you just need to learn mid or top as second role. I agree it's shitty that a jungle/support main(I'm one too) is now forced out of their two roles due to a crappy system, but the best way to deal with it is learn a new role.
PiVoRx4 votesWhat if someone doesent enjoy any other role? It was fine in previous champ select, if you couldnt go your main you asked for supp and people mostly agreed. Here you are basicly stuck with what you got unless you are happy with swapping for some other role you dont enjoy cause if you got off role, for sure person that got your main its his primiary.
Emperor Time2 votesI used to default to support when I couldn't get jungle, so now I'm forced to get good and play mid so I can get my role. At least the good side of this it will make me a better player in the end and I can learn to carry from mid.
PiVoRx5 votesAnd this is the loop that makes thing even worse. Players who played supp from time to time now do everything to not play it at all and queues becomes even longer.
Zedex2 votesSorry to say the millions of other people who can embrace change and work with it are perfectly happy. Its only the unhappy minority that has mass shit posts on these boards complaining about the new queue. If you were anything but selfish you'd realize its a way better system than it used to be. You just need to accept it.
LiveYiOrDieHard4 votesSorry to say the millions of other people who can embrace change and work with it are perfectly happy. Its only the unhappy minority that has mass shit posts on these boards complaining about the new queue. If you were anything but selfish you'd realize its a way better system than it used to be. You just need to accept it.
Selfish? Lol. That's funny because the system is noticeably worse for people who were willing to fill for their team to flesh out the team comp. It's also worse for anybody who liked to strategically pick less-counterable roles when they were an early pick, rather than first picking Singed top or something and then going 0/15 just because the enemy team grabbed Darius. It's only really better for people who were incapable of working with their team in champ select and reverted to "NO NOOB IM FIRST PICK U GO SUPPORT OR I REPORT YOU" and then wondered why their teammates started trolling them. I could count on one hand the number of legitimate trolls I got last season.
And that's not to mention the fact that queue times have skyrocketed. It used to take 5 minutes tops to get into a game for most of the ranked playerbase. Now you'll be sitting in queue for 5+ minutes, probably have to sit through several queue dodges, likely sitting in queue again after said dodges, and then finally getting into a game.
5512021 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-05T15:24:43.310+0000)
New champion select has completely removed the fun from the game for me.
For u only, the new champ select is the best thing ever released because for the 1st time in league u get the ROLE U WANT TO PLAY AND NOT WHAT LEFT.
PiVoRx5 votesI want to jungle, if i pick 2nd supp i wont get jungle so i have to put jungle/mid, i get mid that i dont want to play. Where is your logic now?
Imperial Japan1 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-05T15:24:43.310+0000)
It's a shame I can't do that anymore. My choices are:
Queue as jungle/support, and get support 100% of the time, and be unable to get back to plat because I'm not a support main.
Queue as jungle/mid, and be unable to get back to plat because mid isn't actually the secondary role I've been playing for 3 years.
New champion select has completely removed the fun from the game for me.
Maybe you could try que'ing as Jungle Primary then Mid secondary. I do get that there may be support mains who won't give up their roles but if you get mid you may be able to ask to switch with your support*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*
Jesus is Savior3 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 Kitty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2016-04-06T03:42:20.440+0000)
Maybe you could try que'ing as Jungle Primary then Mid secondary. I do get that there may be support mains who won't give up their roles but if you get mid you may be able to ask to switch with your support*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*
I've gotten mid and then switched with my jungler a few times. They get salty as fuck as soon as I make my first mistake, say "I should have jungled" and then start intentionally feeding. Switching roles in the new queue is not enjoyable. There's a psychology behind it now that makes people act like assholes because I "took" their role.
In old draft they would suck it up and tryhard still.
Imperial Japan1 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2016-04-06T07:41:10.215+0000)
I've gotten mid and then switched with my jungler a few times. They get salty as fuck as soon as I make my first mistake, say "I should have jungled" and then start intentionally feeding. Switching roles in the new queue is not enjoyable. There's a psychology behind it now that makes people act like assholes because I "took" their role.
In old draft they would suck it up and tryhard still.
Just mute them. If they go on and troll (which I doubt they'll do) just report after the game
Jesus is Savior1 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 Kitty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=001300000000,timestamp=2016-04-06T10:08:56.215+0000)
Just mute them. If they go on and troll (which I doubt they'll do) just report after the game
Reporting them won't get me my LP back.
Imperial Japan1 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=0013000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-06T10:13:14.044+0000)
Reporting them won't get me my LP back.
Okay? But if you're a jungle main and you'd say you would win more than lose in JG then you'd just get more wins either way
Jesus is Savior2 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 Kitty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=00130000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-06T10:47:24.382+0000)
Okay? But if you're a jungle main and you'd say you would win more than lose in JG then you'd just get more wins either way
Not if my teammates tilt and troll because I took their role, no.
They start diving into unwinnable fights and spamming /ff. It happens quite frequently.
I even had one dude all-in at level 1 and die and then blame me for the rest of the game.
You "doubt" they will troll. I know from experience they will.
Imperial Japan1 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=001300000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-06T11:10:48.329+0000)
Not if my teammates tilt and troll because I took their role, no.
They start diving into unwinnable fights and spamming /ff. It happens quite frequently.
I even had one dude all-in at level 1 and die and then blame me for the rest of the game.
You "doubt" they will troll. I know from experience they will.
Let's be real here. 9/10 games you won't get someone who tilts and trolls because you took their role. I speak out of experience (No I don't force someone out of their role but I use the trick I told you sometimes)
Yes on the rare case that they do troll or dive in recklessly you will probably lose due to that but no IT DOES NOT HAPPEN FREQUENTLY. Iv'e played the game too, I know what i'm talking about.
Great, you have one case to prove it
Jesus is Savior1 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 Kitty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=0013000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-07T01:13:26.352+0000)
Let's be real here. 9/10 games you won't get someone who tilts and trolls because you took their role. I speak out of experience (No I don't force someone out of their role but I use the trick I told you sometimes)
Yes on the rare case that they do troll or dive in recklessly you will probably lose due to that but no IT DOES NOT HAPPEN FREQUENTLY. Iv'e played the game too, I know what i'm talking about.
Great, you have one case to prove it
I'd say it happens around 50% of the time. Some games it's more "intentional" than others. (Sometimes they'll just be spamming /ff and tilting the team saying "its over" when the score is like..... 9/10)
Imperial Japan1 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=00130000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-07T08:43:00.828+0000)
I'd say it happens around 50% of the time. Some games it's more "intentional" than others. (Sometimes they'll just be spamming /ff and tilting the team saying "its over" when the score is like..... 9/10)
Sure, Sure thing what ever floats your boat
Jesus is Savior1 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 Kitty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=001300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-07T10:15:10.848+0000)
Sure, Sure thing what ever floats your boat
You know behavior changes based on ELO too, right? What you see in silver/bronze games won't be the same as what I see in gold/plat games.
Imperial Japan1 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=0013000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-07T10:28:33.004+0000)
You know behavior changes based on ELO too, right? What you see in silver/bronze games won't be the same as what I see in gold/plat games.
You do realize that bronze and silver games generally are a lot more toxic and has a lot more trolls and the such?
Jesus is Savior1 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 Kitty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=00130000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-07T10:30:26.973+0000)
You do realize that bronze and silver games generally are a lot more toxic and has a lot more trolls and the such?
High gold/low plat is the ELO where people will actually start giving up when there's a 4v5. Like if someone doesn't connect by 5:00 everyone will just go to the base and open mid and let the game end at 8:00. I NEVER saw that happen before high gold. Not once.
Bronze and silver is the "never give up, never surrender" ELO. As such, people won't actually give up and throw. They will be toxic, yes, but they won't think a game is over at 5:00 and legitimately try to end it. They will just call u a scrub and get banned for language.
I was bronze 5 in season 3. I have been in all the divisions from bronze 5 to plat 5. The behavior is different. The kind of "toxic" (game throwing) that you get in higher ELO is different than the kind of toxic you get in lower ELO.
Imperial Japan1 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=001300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-07T10:37:18.861+0000)
High gold/low plat is the ELO where people will actually start giving up when there's a 4v5. Like if someone doesn't connect by 5:00 everyone will just go to the base and open mid and let the game end at 8:00. I NEVER saw that happen before high gold. Not once.
Bronze and silver is the "never give up, never surrender" ELO. As such, people won't actually give up and throw. They will be toxic, yes, but they won't think a game is over at 5:00 and legitimately try to end it. They will just call u a scrub and get banned for language.
I was bronze 5 in season 3. I have been in all the divisions from bronze 5 to plat 5. The behavior is different. The kind of "toxic" (game throwing) that you get in higher ELO is different than the kind of toxic you get in lower ELO.
Comparing my games to that of my brothers (haven't hit plat but is mid-high gold), I barely see people in his game give up and open mid but you have more experience so I can't really say anything
Jesus is Savior1 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 Kitty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=0013000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-07T10:46:46.529+0000)
Comparing my games to that of my brothers (haven't hit plat but is mid-high gold), I barely see people in his game give up and open mid but you have more experience so I can't really say anything
This one just happened.
Imperial Japan1 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21ZHdybI,comment-id=00130000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-19T04:50:12.156+0000)
This one just happened.
Well that took a while
DeloricVI1 votesWhy don't you try to play ADC? Supports know how ADC's work, so it would be reasonable to assume that you could ADC well with a bit of practice, and go either support or jungle at your own preference.
Jesus is Savior2 votesWhy don't you try to play ADC? Supports know how ADC's work, so it would be reasonable to assume that you could ADC well with a bit of practice, and go either support or jungle at your own preference.
ADC is my worst role.
Knowing how an ADC works doesn't magically make me able to play a mechanically intensive ranged AA champ when I'm used to playing melee caster champs.
