Gargoyle's Stoneplate does not perform as described / needs more clarity

ValyrianBlade··57 votes·4,637 views

Gargoyle's Stoneplate: UNIQUE – METALLICIZE: Increases health by 40% and increases champion size, but reduces the damage you deal by 60% for 4 seconds. If STONE SKIN is active, instead increases maximum health by 100% (90 second cooldown).

I just tested this. It does NOT give health equal to 40% of your maximum health. It increases your maximum health by 40% and gives bonus health equal to 40% of your remaining health.

Now, the description in game is 'okay' for this. It isn't entirely clear (given how most other items operate, one may expect to get 40% of max health when using the active) but it could be MUCH clearer. Increases health by 40% of current health. There, done.

The issue is very compounded by the fact that nearly every website has the wrong description of the active and therefore makes it seem like you should get 40% of max health when using the active (this greatly changes how you would use the item, since it would encourage baiting by waiting until low health then gaining a massive increase, while maintaining your damage as much as possible. The existing use encourages activating it right when you're about to take a lot of damage (like Zhonya's, except with a massive 60% damage penalty afterwards). Gaining max health would make the item strong (possibly even busted) whereas gaining current health seems to make the item quite weak...

Item's active description on other websites (most of these specify increasing maximum health by 40% [which it does, it just doesn't give you that current health, as any other max health increase {like leveling up} would], however one even explicitly says it increases current health): http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Gargoyle_Stoneplate UNIQUE – METALLICIZE: Increases maximum health by 40% and increases champion size, but reduces the damage you deal by 60% for 4 seconds. If STONE SKIN is active, instead increases maximum health by 100% (90 second cooldown).

http://lol.gamepedia.com/Gargoyle_Stoneplate UNIQUE: For 4 seconds, grow in size and gain bonus health equal to 40% of your maximum health, but reduce damage dealt by 60%. If Stone Skin is active, the health increase becomes 100% instead.

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/item/gargoyle-stoneplate-338 UNIQUE Active: Metallicize: Increases maximum health by 40% and increases champion size, but reduces the damage you deal by 60% for 4 seconds. If Stone Skin is active, instead increases maximum health by 100% (90 second cooldown).

http://www.lolking.net/news/buying-time-with-gargoyle-stoneplate UNIQUE Active - Metallicize: Increases maximum health by 40% and increases champion size, but reduces the damage you deal by 60% for 4 seconds. If Stone Skin is active, instead increases maximum health by 100% (90 second cooldown). (this link actually describes this difference)

The last link is worth reading I think. It pretty much explains that the active really doesn't increase health, but is effectively damage reduction that also reduces true damage (via the health increases work-around). When the active wears off, you actually lose health even if your max health capacity is high enough to keep it (again, unlike any other health increase in the game). This is really weird for an item - which is fine if it's strong enough and has it's uses, but please make it more clear exactly what the item does. No where in the item description does it say I'll lose health when the active wears off. No where does it say the health I'm gaining is based on current health (although this could be assumed, why make us assume it).

58 Comments

Looknook19 votes

Bought this item for the first time the other day when I got low on health I popped it. I felt rather cheated by the pathetic amount of health I got.

ValyrianBlade5 votes

{quoted}

Bought this item for the first time the other day when I got low on health I popped it. I felt rather cheated by the pathetic amount of health I got.

Yea that's what happened to me, lol. Popped it at low-ish health and felt like it did nothing. The size increase isn't very noticeable and your % hp stays constant so when I first used it I thought it didn't even do anything. Needed to go to replay to see that my health actually increased.

DeusVult1 votes

But that isnt what its for

Its for tanks who are initiating and know that they are going to take a shit-ton of damage in the first 1-3 seconds. They go in, pop the active and essentially double their health, meaning that they can survive the teamfight. Great for the like of Alistar Amumu Malphite Maokai Nautilus Volibear Zac

what it isnt meant for is a "I'm low, let me get all of my original health back (whether that is for the 3 second active, or as you talk about it, forever, in the same way that you dont loose health once lulu ult falls off you.) so that I can cock-block this Darius/Syndra/Veigar/Lee with their kill button.

If the item worked in anyway other than what it does atm, it would be incredibly broken, as getting a 3 second shield of your total health or healing back to full with an active would be broke AF

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

I mean that's what I thought it was going to let me do. Tested in practice tool first though and was severely disappointed in how it actually worked.

Predàtor1 votes

well you would be mistaken then [slayer-jinx-wink]

Durzaka8 votes

Thats irrelevant though.

He didnt saying it should be changed. Just that it doesnt do what it says it does and is misleading, so the wording should be changed.

Predàtor1 votes

it says exactly what it does, it says it increases health by 40% and 100% it doesnt say anything about Max health, if you have 1000 health, 40% of that is an additional 400 only, it does exactly what it says it does

Itsbeghdev1 votes

It's easy to expect maximum health where current isn't specified.

Blade of Justic6 votes

I'd also like to know when I'm technically surrounded by 3 people.

Like a stack indicator or something.

ValyrianBlade4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1uQ7wwnO,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-05-29T00:49:40.771+0000)

I'd also like to know when I'm technically surrounded by 3 people.

Like a stack indicator or something.

Me too.

Predàtor2 votes

i mean the area for the passive is pretty massive

http://imgur.com/xumluYa

My Heartshaker5 votes

You're supposed to engage for your team then pop this immediately.

Gorantharon2 votes

And that's fine, it's just that the description isn't clear on that.

The Yetii Rider3 votes

You don't want to wait until you're super low anyway, that might end up with three of the enemy team dead and then you're not getting the full benefit.

It's definitely better for a tank to absorb more damage, so using it from the start of the fight is probably intended.

ValyrianBlade4 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1uQ7wwnO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-05-28T19:21:46.689+0000)

You don't want to wait until you're super low anyway, that might end up with three of the enemy team dead and then you're not getting the full benefit.

It's definitely better for a tank to absorb more damage, so using it from the start of the fight is probably intended.

Depends who you're playing. Maokai or Sej? Sure, you're absolutely right.

Jarvan? Absolutely not. You want to go in, use your combo, trap as many of them in your ult as possible, then use stoneplate followed by W (since W scales with your health). If it gave percent max health, you'd want as many full damage auto attacks as possible to finish off the enemy carry before reducing your own damage for your team to follow up though (theoretically stoneplate giving percent max health would allow a tanky Jarvan to do an awesome engage 1v5 and then survive the enemy team blowing all their cooldowns on him).

Same argument would apply to any other champion that likes to engage and does a reasonable amount of damage too. You're not locking people down for ages, you're starting a fight, applying damage, then waiting on your cooldowns.

The Yetii Rider3 votes

Jarvan isn't a tank.

"Any champion that likes to engage and does a reasonable amount of damage too" - These champions are not supposed to use the item. The item should suck on these champions. The entire point of the tank update is to benefit TANKS. Champions who prefer to absorb a large amount of damage and use crowd control to help their team win fights. Champions who deal a low amount of damage as part of their balance. Not Jarvan or Darius or Illaoi.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1uQ7wwnO,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-05-28T20:24:40.851+0000)

Jarvan isn't a tank.

"Any champion that likes to engage and does a reasonable amount of damage too" - These champions are not supposed to use the item. The item should suck on these champions. The entire point of the tank update is to benefit TANKS. Champions who prefer to absorb a large amount of damage and use crowd control to help their team win fights. Champions who deal a low amount of damage as part of their balance. Not Jarvan or Darius or Illaoi.

No, but you see, Jarvan, Vi, Hecarim, these divers do 90% of their damage as burst. Popping Stoneplate right after deleting a carry is a great way for them to survive their dive.

It's a diver item.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1uQ7wwnO,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-28T23:08:23.594+0000)

No, but you see, Jarvan, Vi, Hecarim, these divers do 90% of their damage as burst. Popping Stoneplate right after deleting a carry is a great way for them to survive their dive.

It's a diver item.

No it's not. It's a vanguard item. That's why it's better to use when you have full health.

Divers should be less tanky after the update, not more. The only reason they would be more tanky is if they were poaching items designed to be used by tanks, and if they are, then Riot should respond appropriately. Probably by making Stoneplate not only reduce your damage but also slow you by 60% for 5 seconds as well, so divers who use it will die instantly.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

No, its Vangard Item (the ones who engage for team).

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1uQ7wwnO,comment-id=00020000000000000001,timestamp=2017-05-29T00:13:17.644+0000)

No, its Vangard Item (the ones who engage for team).

Oh, I thought it was so divers could survive after oneshotting. Huh. I mean, I can just imagine Vi oneshotting the ADC, popping stoneplate, and tanking shit.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

U can using it after killing a squishy... But if u don't have many hp its useless. Its was to prevent abuse case IMO, as assassin just buying this item : OS then becoming "tanky". But in late game it isn't a bad item for VI, cause usualy she haven't enough damage to OS adc with item 3072 item 3153. I think it could be a good item on JIV if u build him tankier with some comp.

But i wouldn't make it core for JIV in most case.

Predàtor1 votes

it doesnt do %max health, nowhere in the item does it say %max health

http://imgur.com/xumluYa

Vectros3 votes

...This explains why I'll pop it once they start focusing me and 40% of my HP was already gone-and I feel like it didn't do much.

I don't think it's even worth picking up now...

Predàtor2 votes

its meant to be used as a buffer once you engage, engage the team, and activate it to give you the survivability you need so your team has time to follow you up

SzGamer2273 votes

"Like Zhonya's, but with a massive 60% damage penalty afterwards"

But like

Zhonya's has a 100% damage penalty afterwards

and a 100% movement reduction too

:V

ValyrianBlade3 votes

{quoted}

"Like Zhonya's, but with a massive 60% damage penalty afterwards"

But like

Zhonya's has a 100% damage penalty afterwards

and a 100% movement reduction too

:V

Zhonya's also prevents all damage and crowd control for the duration. What I meant was: When to use it is like Zhonya's (right as you're about to take damage) Except AFTER that damage has been applied / dodged, the Zhonya's user exits stasis fully capable of doing damage, while the stoneplate user has 4 seconds (less the 0.5 seconds the damage was incoming) where he deals 60% reduced damage.

The item's description is also a bit of a bait. If multiple enemies increases health by 100%. That's equivalent to 50% damage reduction. So even in the optimal case, you're reducing your outgoing damage by more than incoming damage. Which is fine (tanks don't mind this), but it's not very clear.

SzGamer2272 votes

Huh, I was under the impression that Zhonya's lasted longer than 2.5 seconds... carry on then. I see what you mean.

FutureCreator3 votes

{quoted} But like

Zhonya's has a 100% damage penalty afterwards

I didn't know deleting carries was a 100% damage reduction :# Fiddlesticks Kennen Heimerdinger

Done252 votes

How it works is that it increases health values by 40% or 100%. Max HP and current HP are seperately increased by that amount. I'm not sure if they would be able to word it better without making it overly descriptive.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

{quoted}

How it works is that it increases health values by 40% or 100%. Max HP and current HP are seperately increased by that amount. I'm not sure if they would be able to word it better without making it overly descriptive.

Yea I get that, but the description makes it easy to think you'll gain all the max health gained, and also says nothing to imply that you'll lose the extra health when it's over. It's very unique compared to anything else, so not telling us this leaves people feeling cheated when it doesn't work as expected.

JJI7441 votes

I also think it may reduce damage dealt while its on CD, although I'm not 100% on that. The item does not really perform to expectations, tooltip could definately use some clairity.

ValyrianBlade3 votes

{quoted}

I also think it may reduce damage dealt while its on CD, although I'm not 100% on that. The item does not really perform to expectations, tooltip could definately use some clairity.

if this is true that would be pretty awful...

Karn Bishop1 votes

I just think the items entire concept is poorly implemented, it is a trap item at its finest because outside maybe 2 champions who can use the item nobody else wants to or can afford to take that huge of a damage hit to their autos and skills.

I would rather they just mark the item as a failure and scrap it, then maybe replace it with a tank item that makes sense down the line.

Heck if the item did as the name implies i would expect the item to turn me into stone which grants a movement speed and attack speed penalty to the user that cannot be overridden by certain champion abilities MasterYi Olaf LeeSin ( disables ward hopping because i hate you and your mains) while it also applies a damage reduction buff/ armor that reduces damage dealt until ability ends or absorbs % of damage then shatters.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

its meant for supports who struggle to be tanky because of the lack of gold. so now Braum Leona Alistar Rakan dont get bursted down just because they dont have as much health late game as the big boy tanks like Sejuani Sion Rammus Malphite

Karn Bishop3 votes

... so your argument for it being a good item is that it can be used by that subset of champions who can't actually afford to buy it unless they are already winning hard enough to afford the luxury?

Literally those champions pretty much never build stoneplate and those who do only do so 2% of the time or less and are already winning games hard but you never see it as a purchase when your struggling to win a game which is supposed to be the items main strong point?

yeahhh going to say i dont understand the logic here.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

i like stone plate on them gives me armor and its the only other hybrid resist item outside of item 3190 item 3512 the only reason i dont build it more often is its still a little too nitch for me the bonus health is so good for gold starved characters IMO i mean as a support tank i tend to need to build items like item 2049 item 3190 item 3109 item 3117 that i end up not getting much health doubling my total health lets me last extremely longer in team fights

General Esdeath 1 votes

It should say "current" health instead

Rhai Frostfang2 votes

Problem is it also increases max hp so it's honestly hard to word it.

General Esdeath 2 votes

"increases MAX hp by 40% of your current HP"

Rhai Frostfang1 votes

...What?

Lets say you currently have 1000 HP out of your max 2000. What your text would do upon activation is increases hp to 1400/2400 while it should be 1400/2800.

Predàtor1 votes

thats not what it does tho, it increases both your current health and max health by 40% hense why it says, increases Health by 40% it doesnt actually say max health anywhere on the item, if you have 2000 max health and you pop the item while at half health(1000) the item will change your health to 1400/2800, increasing your Health by 40%, the tooltip is 100% accurate

General Esdeath 2 votes

I'm talking about the max HP part of the increase. Your HP stays at the same % when health is added.

Predàtor1 votes

yes but that still means your health is increased accurately, id rather have 50% of 6000 than 50% of 3000

Predàtor1 votes

it says increases Health, it is worded properly in a way that implies it does both, by default it has to increase your maximum health to account for the extra health you would receive but as it says Increases Health by 40% that should be pretty straight forward that if you have 1000 health you would only be getting 400 from activating it

Predàtor1 votes

i would like to point out to people, the item does not say anything about Max Health, it only says Increases Health by 40% and 100% respectively, go read the item again, or just read it here

http://imgur.com/xumluYa

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

i would like to point out to people, the item does not say anything about Max Health, it only says Increases Health by 40% and 100% respectively, go read the item again, or just read it here

http://imgur.com/xumluYa

Yes, it says Health. Which could mean max health, which is why I asked for it to say current.

Also, the post addresses that many other websites have the description wrong. Obviously NOT Riot's fault, but it is still there. That's moreso evidence that the description is ambiguous (i.e. all these people also expected it to perform differently) and it should matter to Riot since many players rely on these sites.

Predàtor1 votes

but it doesnt exclusively do current health, it increases both current and max health by the two variables

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

but it doesnt exclusively do current health, it increases both current and max health by the two variables

Which probably lends to the confusion.

As stated in the original post, the active literally is equivalent to true damage reduction. It has nothing to do with health gain at all, the health gain is just a work-around to let it reduce true damage. This is non-sense, it causes a lot of confusion.

It would have been much easier and clearer to just say the item reduces damage taken by 28/50% and this also applies to true damage.

Venomar1 votes

I mean it DOES say it increases "health" not "maximum health" . "Current health" for clarity is fine but it does do what it says currently. The other sites just have the wrong Information, but that has nothing to do with riots own description or the item.

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