So why not create a separate client for high ELO?

Onotori·Apr 12, 2018·1 votes·780 views

Riot makes a lot of bullshit changes so that LC$ stays interesting, while the rest of the playerbase suffers.

So why not just make a separate client for high ELO (like diamond+) that you can opt into, and balance it individually of the standard client? If you're going to refuse to actually balance the game to keep tournaments profitable, then let the people who can even think about competing deal with it while everyone else gets a somewhat fair game.

6 Comments

comedybingbongsApr 12, 20182 votes

Why not just balance the game for people who have never played with it. Or better yet, people who don't have any internet access and have no idea what video games are

IP MasquerenaApr 12, 20181 votes

Let me ask you this: Do you want the game to be balanced for monkeys or for players who actually know how to play the game?

YOU and many other players who keep requesting such things and think you know the game oh so well and are good enough but you can't climb because of noobs in your team need to get a reality check and accept that you aren't as good as you think. Having the knowledge (as incomplete and maybe bad as it may be) is not enough since you aren't putting it at use.

The game is in a bad state because Riot keeps trying to balance the game for solo que as well, instead of straight up tell players to get good or get lost and balance only for the pro players, because they are good enough and know the game like the back of their hand.

You say that they balance for LCS to be more entertaining, but fail to realize why LCS is so boring right now, so let me give you the news flash: BECAUSE SOLO QUE PLAYERS WANTED SHORTER GAMES!. LCS is won by the team who makes the least mistakes, but when every mistake is so costly, why would they take risks? They have no reason to, because unlike the players who "30 min game is too long, we need shorter games", those guys play for a lot of money.

You people on the boards don't know what you want or are already in dumb places (some of you). If you are the losing team in a stomp you go with "the game goes too long, we need to make it shorter", but if you are the winning team in a stomp you go with "don't end yet".

Yes, I agree that Riot fucked up a good bunch of things, but the reason for that is because they try to balance for too many people at once, and even they acknowledged that it's too hard of a thing to do. They should balance only for pro play, then the game will have true balance. Yes, it will be a shit storm the first few patches, but after things clear up a bit, the game will have more balance, because you either learn and get good, or just leave, instead of crying to nerf something because you aren't good enough to play against it, or unwilling to learn to play against it.

But then again, for the majority of the population, if you can't counter something with more damage, it's broken, yet you cry that there is too much damage in the game....typical....

OnotoriApr 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Let me ask you this: Do you want the game to be balanced for monkeys or for players who actually know how to play the game?

I mean, watching LC$ games and high ELO players... they don't know how to play very well either; their macroplay is great, but individually they usually don't play very well (as evidenced by me beating plats three weeks after starting the game and jumping into ranked, and beating challengers in community events not long after). Not surprising that the most popular champs in higher ELO and LC$ are very simplistic.

You know what I'd prefer Riot do? I'd really like it if they looked at the playerbase at large, rather than the 0.1%, and look at champs that are over / underperforming in situations that don't have 100% coordination and practiced reactions. Then, talk to the best / most dedicated players at those champs (you know, people who have HUNDREDS of games), and figure out how to buff / nerf them meaningfully without totally throwing things out of whack.

Unfortunately, you wouldn't have things like Trist getting a penta in LC$, or Twitch being a gold mine in solo queue, so that won't happen. Just one of the many benefits of League being an F2P cash grab.

YOU and many other players who keep requesting such things and think you know the game oh so well and are good enough but you can't climb because of noobs in your team need to get a reality check and accept that you aren't as good as you think. Having the knowledge (as incomplete and maybe bad as it may be) is not enough since you aren't putting it at use.

When you have over 10,000 games played since season 5, I'm pretty sure you can claim to know the game. And, let's be honest here: You don't climb based on your individual skill. You climb based on how well you can manipulate the map -- microplay is not that important outside of lane phase. I've seen lots of low ELO players who can play amazing, but have no awareness, and I've also seen lots of high ELO players (even LC$ players) who have horrible microplay but god tier strategy / coordination.

So, when you're talking about balance, you're not talking macroplay. When you're balancing a champ, you want to do it from the perspective of microplay -- the lack of doing so is why balance is so complained about these days.

The game is in a bad state because Riot keeps trying to balance the game for solo que as well, instead of straight up tell players to get good or get lost and balance only for the pro players, because they are good enough and know the game like the back of their hand.

The game is in a bad state because Riot is trying to balance in terms of classes and their vague functions and comparisons to others in their class, rather than balancing each champ individually. But, I mean, why wouldn't they? It's a lot less work, and they don't have to pay their devs for as many hours.

Then we have random buffs / nerfs for pro play that make no sense whatsoever, but you wouldn't listen to that anyway, so I won't bother.

You say that they balance for LCS to be more entertaining, but fail to realize why LCS is so boring right now, so let me give you the news flash: BECAUSE SOLO QUE PLAYERS WANTED SHORTER GAMES!

Last I checked, solo queue players complain that the game progresses too fast and is too snowbally. In fact I've been hearing that for years. But LC$ games are getting stale and drawn out, so Riot is trying to fix that. Kind of funny how that sounds almost the opposite of what you're saying.

Yes, I agree that Riot fucked up a good bunch of things, but the reason for that is because they try to balance for too many people at once, and even they acknowledged that it's too hard of a thing to do.

That's a lie, and you know it. There are so many games out there that are very competitive but are balanced so much better, despite much more complex interactions and comps. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you though.

They should balance only for pro play

They should not. The amount of coordination in pro play is never going to happen in solo queue, nor even flex queue or Clash. Balancing entirely around that is just absurd -- but it's where Riot makes money so that's what we do.

Ellodere midApr 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I mean, watching LC$ games and high ELO players... they don't know how to play very well either; their macroplay is great, but individually they usually don't play very well (as evidenced by me beating plats three weeks after starting the game and jumping into ranked, and beating challengers in community events not long after). Not surprising that the most popular champs in higher ELO and LC$ are very simplistic.

What are you talking about? Challengers are nowhere near pro-players in terms of skill, that's not a good comparison. They are individually A LOT better at the game compared to their peers in general. Look at Viscizasci, he got KR Chall which is ABOVE every other region.

When you have over 10,000 games played since season 5, I'm pretty sure you can claim to know the game.

No you don't? There are people hardstuck in diamond 5 with 10k games, I wouldn't trust them with jackshit. You should only trust the highest skilled players who actually KNOW the game.

IP MasquerenaApr 13, 20181 votes

Dota 2 is one of the games that are better balanced than LoL and guess what, they balance only for pro play, but the balance is much better, almost all available heroes in the game were played in pro play, the games are much more fun to watch as well, I wonder why?

You don't understand something. I said that many have the knowledge (some more than others), but just having the knowledge won't help. If you watch a pro play and you notice his mistakes doesn't mean you are better or that you wouldn't do similar mistakes if you were in that spot. There is a reason why "watch your own replays to find your mistakes" is the best way to improve. You see things from a different perspective, and can notice things the one playing maybe wasn't noticing,because he had other things to focus on as well.

Solo que players are complaining now that games are too fast, but it wasn't always the case, and even now you see once in a while threads crying that games are too slow (mostly by those on the receiving end). If Riot slows down the game for solo que and allow more mistakes to be made, pro play will speed up and be much better to watch, because just like Dota pro play, they would have room for mistakes, they will experiment more and have better games, compared to the "play as safe as possible" that is now.

OleandervineApr 12, 20181 votes

By default, non-pro players VASTLY outnumber the pro players. Balancing a game based on the needs of a few, let's call them the 1%, versus the needs of the rest, let's call them the 99%, doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because people are playing the game as one of the 99% more than they are watching the games of the 1%.

I say let the LCS go insane and let the pros deal with massively OP champions in their tier. It's fun to watch slaughterfests like that, instead of what equates to golf for video game streamers. I honestly believe there's a plateau to eSports, and that League has hit it. They will never be able to drive away the mundanity and the boringness of pro-level games because pros will always crunch numbers, calculate to exhaustive levels, and have such intense strategy that it equates to waiting and biding more than it does to actually playing a fun game to watch. They should stop trying to balance for the pros as hard as they do, because the pro-scene will ALWAYS have this level of seriousness and defensive play that they try so hard to eliminate.