Mages are a plague

Moody P·Jan 3, 2019·27 votes·5,820 views

stranglehold on mid, very little class competition (despite how much they 'enjoy' diversifying other lanes); assassins suck
Singlehandedly render vast majority of juggernauts useless and out of meta despite being "bad" at handling durable target's
multiple occasions of completely ruining top lane by themselves; are almost solely the reason bruisers got power creeped into designs like new Irelia and Aatrox (more range, more CC, strong all in from a distance)
Have been shitting up support for years, starting with Annie in season 3; continue to be a massive pest
Are now competing with marksmen for their native role; of Riot fucks up the item changes expect to not see marksmen
Constantly bellyache about AP jingles indicating their desire to ruin that role too

Can we do something about the mage menace? I'm tired of every planned or incidental "meta shift" being a mage leaving mid to utterly annihilate competition somewhere else.

87 Comments

NyarlathοtepJan 3, 201910 votes

<Removed by Moderation>

stranglehold on mid, very little class competition (despite how much they 'enjoy' diversifying other lanes); assassins suck

According to opgg the top 10 in mid champs based on how good they are are, galio, cass, kassadin, lissandra, zoe, ahri, yasuo, malz, aatrox, and ekko. Galio does build like a mage and does have the dmg and more cc than a mage. However his range doesnt really make him one. His literally an ap juggernaut with cc. Cass, lissandra, zoe and malz are mages. Kassadin is an assassin. Ahri and ekko are difficult to categorize. Ahri definitely leans being a mage. However her situational mobility along with her burst makes her more akin to a ranged assassin. Likewise ekko does have high burst and mobility. However he performs mostly as a skirmisher. And then there is a single juggernaut aatrox. I dont know about you but personally im seeing diversity.

Singlehandedly render vast majority of juggernauts useless and out of meta despite being "bad" at handling durable target's

Its almost as if juggernauts are made to be prone to kiting. And they are bad at killing durable targets. Here send a xerath lux or swain to kill a properly durable champ like nautilus or urgot. Record the time it takes to kill them and then bring an ad based carry and record their time. Dont worry i will be here.

multiple occasions of completely ruining top lane by themselves; are almost solely the reason bruisers got power creeped into designs like new Irelia and Aatrox

Not all mages. The ones that are known to go top are, kennen, lissandra, karthus at one point (if im correct), rumble, swain and vlad. And they go there because they happen to counter a good chunk of the usual top lane roaster. And no, you can argue that mages have their role in forcing champs like irelia to get powercreeped. But they arent the only reason. Adc have their fair share of blame alongside well, pretty much everyone.

Have been shitting up support for years, starting with Annie in season 3; continue to be a massive pest

Well blame riot not the players. Riot is stubborn enough to not reduce base dmg on their spells in exchange for better ratios. Then there are the plethora of assassins and the usual yasuo that make the matchup a living nightmare for the mage player. What do you really expect? People play lol to have fun. Not to deal with chore-like yasuo or zed.

Are now competing with marksmen for their native role; of Riot fucks up the item changes expect to not see marksmen

Mages tend to be good at poking. Riot has nerfed enhancers champs that tend to help against poke. Wtf are you expecting?

Constantly bellyache about AP jingles indicating their desire to ruin that role too

Well i cant speak about that since i havent seen a post about ap junglers.

ModJikkerJan 4, 20191 votes

Hey,

I've removed an unnecessary insult from your comment. There is no reason to call out another poster in that way and imply they have an invalid or wrong opinion constantly. That can be seen as harassment and adds nothing productive to the discussion. In the future, leave such comments out and remember to be respectful of others even if you disagree with them and their opinions.

[poppy-wink]

NyarlathοtepJan 4, 2019

Can you show me what exactly i said? I dont exactly remember.

ModJikkerJan 4, 20191 votes

I can't post removed content here since it was removed for a reason. The general message implied that a certain poster is always wrong and says nothing but rubbish.

DuskDaUmbreonJan 3, 20199 votes

100% of the cancerous champions in the game are mages:

Fiddlesticks mage Heimerdinger mage Zed shadow mage Leblanc mage DrMundo muscle mage Vladimir blood mage Draven axe mage

...On a more serious note, please, Riot. Remove mages from support.

LhuhzJan 3, 20192 votes

From supp? I dont care about mage supps, I care about the 55% winrate Cassio bot and tier S on pro play.

AlzonJan 4, 20191 votes

https://youtu.be/qNzHY8k00sk

SolicitudeJan 3, 20198 votes

AD Carries are a plague.

stranglehold on ~~mid~~ bot, very little class competition (despite how much they 'enjoy' diversifying other lanes); bruisers bot suck
Singlehandedly render vast majority of ~~juggernauts~~ champions useless and out of meta despite ~~being "bad" at handling durable target's~~ supposedly not having high burst damage ~~though they can crit a tank for 1k damage from miles away~~
multiple occasions of completely ruining ~~top~~ every lane by themselves; are almost solely the reason bruisers got power creeped into designs like new Irelia and Aatrox (more range, more CC, strong all in from a distance) and also the only class capable of abusing a lot of items intended for other classes ~~hello there Lucian, Vayne top, hello Corki, Varus, Lucian and a bunch of others mid~~
Have been shitting up ~~support~~ every other role for years, ~~starting with Annie in season 3~~ (I legit dont know where to start and where to end); continue to be a massive pest
~~Are now competing with marksmen for their native role; of Riot fucks up the item changes expect to not see marksmen~~ Have been competing for top, mid and jungle for years (bot lane is 100% theirs' and not let anyone say its not); no matter the item Riot makes/reworks, they always find a way to abuse and fuck it up.
~~Constantly bellyache about AP jingles indicating their desire to ruin that role too~~ Can you explain this????

Can we do something about the ~~mage~~ AD Carries menace? I'm tired of every planned or incidental "meta shift" being an ~~mage~~ ADCerry leaving ~~mid~~ bot to utterly annihilate competition ~~somewhere~~ everywhere else abusing every single item in the game.

p.s.1. I can do the same thing for every other role in the game, But for some reason you look to me like an ADCarry main. p.s.2. Unless you fight like an idiot lvl1 against an early game champion, there is no champion that has a kill potential lvl1. Some have starting lvl3, but again its your fault 90% of times if you cant play against an enemy having kill pressure. p.s.3. If you were playing at the time when LeBroken, Kassadin and Talon had silence, you would never think of making such a "joke".

Moody PJan 3, 20192 votes

I can do the same thing for every other role

No you can't. No other class has come 1/10 as close to oppressive as mages. Ever.

I look like an ADC main? LOL. Alright mate.

Sir SaltarinJan 3, 20192 votes

You are a dirty Volibear adc main and you know it.

AlzonJan 4, 20191 votes

A b s o l u t e l y d i s g u s t i n g

Serika ZeroJan 3, 20198 votes

Ahri - mage. Has stronghold on mid and stops other picks from happening? no. Makes juggernauts useless? no. Is played top? no. Support? no. Adc? no (maybe sometimes, Ahri adc is fun). Anivia - mage. Has stronghold on mid and stops other picks from happening? no. Makes juggernauts useless? kinda (with good walls). Is played top? no. Support? no. Adc? no. Annie - mage. Has stronghold on mid and stops other picks from happening? no. Makes juggernauts useless? no. Is played top? no. Support? yes. Adc? no. AurelionSol - mage. Has stronghold on mid and stops other picks from happening? no. Makes juggernauts useless? no. Is played top? no. Support? no. Adc? no. Azir - mage. Has stronghold on mid and stops other picks from happening? yes. Makes juggernauts useless? kinda (with good walls). Is played top? no. Support? no. Adc? no. - mage. Has stronghold on mid and stops other picks from happening? no. Makes juggernauts useless? no. Is played top? no. Support? yes. Adc? no.

And I won't even bother going further. This is just the first line of mages when you click to see the champion's faces. And the majority of them do not fit your profile in more than 1 section. And actually quite a few don't fit it at all. You hate mages, you are biased against them and you can't make objective decisions!!

SaltyCauseBadJan 3, 20197 votes

Ryze has fucked up toplane countless number of times and is unbearably boring to play against Cassiopeia has fucked up toplane countless number of times and is unbearably boring to play against Malzahar has fucked up toplane and is unbearably boring to play against Vladimir has fucked up toplane and is unbearably boring to play against Karma has fucked up toplane and is countless unbearably boring to play against (Tank variation) Viktor has fucked up toplane is unbearably boring to play against (Tank variation)

Also why is it some mages can build tank, out damage me, out tank me and still have more mobility / CC than me Viktor Karma but yes balanced class

Sewer SideJan 3, 20197 votes

The last time you lot tried to force a class to migrate (8.11), it failed miserably.

So how about no?

Pretty sure high elos are still playing Irelia and Aatrox mid too.

Moody PJan 3, 20197 votes

The two bruisers who specifically designed to dump on ranged champs in lane and got laning power to contest a mage can go in lanes where mages exist?

Well, that solves everything. Just stop playing the rest of the fighters, 2 of them can go mid

Sewer SideJan 3, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1qE5yxUc,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-01-03T13:35:47.062+0000)

The two bruisers who specifically designed to dump on ranged champs in lane and got laning power to contest a mage can go in lanes where mages exist?

Well, that solves everything. Just stop playing the rest of the fighters, 2 of them can go mid

And ignore the first part of my post. Wholesale nerfing classes does nothing in the larger scheme of balancing. All you do is force a class to feel like shit and not be picked until Riot is forced by the community to hard buff them again.

You’re better off slowly chipping away at champions and the strong to get weak enough to be countered, then they counters become strong but they’re weak to a different set.

Basically - nerf Cass, Galio, and other out of line mages rather than advocating the wholesale nerfs of champions who don’t need them.

Moody PJan 3, 20196 votes

But sewer Chan, all mages need nerfs, and their items too

AirKingNeoJan 3, 20191 votes

42% winrate irelia omegalul

Sewer SideJan 4, 20194 votes

{quoted}

42% winrate irelia omegalul

Actually it’s more like 46% and her pick rate is still over 15% so yeah...

charge attackJan 3, 20197 votes

Well mages are actually in a worse spot than they’ve been in a while. Iirc earlier this season and last season, mages pretty much ruled mid lane, and also overflowed into top/support.

Right now, most mages that are good mid (competitively) are counters to assassins (Galio, Liss, aftershock Ryze).

Otherwise you have bruisers and assassins (Leblanc, Aatrox, Irelia, Akali).

Mages are taking over bot lane/top lane because they’re actually kind of weak mid lane right now - but ADCs are even more garbage therefore easy to bully. And top laners often don’t have the same kill pressure that mid laners have on them (letting them scale for free).

The mage class is just far too diverse for them all to be bad the same time (unlike most bruisers/ADCs/tanks).

D357R0Y3RJan 3, 20192 votes

karthus is a hard counter to assassins?

hahaha

charge attackJan 3, 20191 votes

Karthus isn’t really being played mid in pro (only tournament we’ve had is kespa and demacia)

Hahahaha

LhuhzJan 3, 20193 votes

Ryze isn't played Mid (on pro play) because he counters assasins, he's played because his kit is beyond broken for coordinated play and has been for years, it's nothing new.

charge attackJan 3, 20191 votes

He was in kespa. Aftershock Ryze was used to counter Leblanc.

He wasn’t doing so hot in worlds. He’s been nerfed a lot even for pro play he’s medicore at best.

AirKingNeoJan 3, 20193 votes

Irelia isn't even a strong mid laner anymore.

If we look at the top midlaners, most of them are mages or build strictly mage items.

Exin0Jan 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Irelia isn't even a strong mid laner anymore.

If we look at the top midlaners, most of them are mages or build strictly mage items.

top midlaners are assassins and ap assasins only staple mage here is lux and recently after buffs Lissandra and Galio

chipndip1Jan 3, 20192 votes

{quoted}

top midlaners are assassins and ap assasins only staple mage here is lux and recently after buffs Lissandra and Galio

...Lux?

Exin0Jan 3, 20192 votes

{quoted}

...Lux?

10.th most picked mid with 5.8% PR and 51.7% WR

Death by GlamourJan 3, 20195 votes

I mentioned this in another thread with you

the fact that every mage has the potential to 100 - 0 someone despite some having massive aoe damage is insane Orianna for instance.

like you mentioned, im fed up of seeing all the "weak" reject mages from midlane transitioning to bot

iDarkWindJan 3, 20195 votes

You're trashtalking (exposing facts) mages on LoL Boards? Get ready to be downvoted to oblivion lol

Jinzo best cardJan 3, 20194 votes

Yes very stranglehold, not that there are like 5 bruisers who can flex top-mid anyway, it was Coki/Talon/Pyke lane of dominance some time ago. LB and Kassa do AP damage so they're mages for you, right?

Insane! Ranged champs with CC make melee champs with no mobility harder to play. You already make every tank unviable top lane except for one or two and you want CC to be reduced by 95% if it comes from a ranged champ if you play Darius or something too?

If bruisers like Irelia and Aatrox were powercreeped to combat ranged champs (and not because Riot just wants to release flashy champs) then Azir and Kalista were released to combat powercreeped melee champs.

Uh uh. Ardent meta? Meta where Braum Alistar and Tahm were best supports? Now that it's their turns with high damage meta they're ruining bot lane?

LMAO 1.5% pickrate 20% banrate Karthus competes vs 32% pickrate and 45% banrate Lucian anyday, hahaha BOT LANE STRANGLEHOLDING IS IN DANGER! nice hypocrisy man hahaha

I have no idea what you're saying (Eve and Elise are Assassins but they buy AP so I guess they're mages for you)? Or you're counting people that want Mid Taliyah to show up on stat sites again after it got assblasted with nerfs the moment it saw play in jungle (and it's now 1% pickrate 49% WR in jng)?

Thanks for the entertrainment value! I might check board daily if you keep it up! [vlad-salute]

Moody PJan 3, 20192 votes

<Removed by Moderation>

there's 2 bruisers that flex mid and one of them has been well-nerfed to pretty much only be a top laner in good elos now (she's also pretty countered by all the aftershock mid laners now)

bruisers don't make tanks irrelevant and never did until Conqueror arrived. defense being so broken in LOL that riot deemed conqueror a necessary solution isn't Darius's fault and if anything you were saying were true then Darius would get picked in high elo/pro to counter tanks when they're strong. (he doesn't btw)

no they weren't. melees have been playing catchup vs ranged cancer since day 1

Mages weren't even bad in the tank supp meta, they sucked in ardent but ardent was cancer for everyone that wasn't a marksman or an enchanter.

karthus permabanned in kespa cup btw

<Removed by Moderation>

TegashJan 3, 20193 votes

"I can't believe my role has counterplay. I should just be able to stomp every matchup by pressing R."

FTFY

LhuhzJan 3, 20193 votes

You are talking about Heimer, Cassio and Karthus right?

LTK KoRoJan 3, 20193 votes

-Every Oriannas main after being wrecked by assassin, probably

Albus RumbledoreJan 3, 20192 votes

Would love to see your main and how you abusing these OP mages in every lane, while I'm sure you are having 70% win rate with Jax, Rene, Panth, Riven even Poppy on top. Lb, Ahri, GALIO, Kass on mid. Luc, Ez, Draven, Mf and even Cait on bot. Yeah mages are THE worst.

Moody PJan 3, 20194 votes

I can't understand this word salad

InfernapeJan 3, 20191 votes

Did you try turning it off and on.

LhuhzJan 3, 20191 votes

Caitlyn still has sub bar winrate so idk

RevertCritOrAFKJan 3, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Caitlyn still has sub bar winrate so idk

Any Crit adc has sub par winrate besides the ones that synergize with stormrazor more than the others, besides for like twitch. Jinx Jhin Kaisa But that does not make them better than other crit adcs really they're still equally weak.

Exin0Jan 3, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1qE5yxUc,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-03T12:33:52.675+0000)

stranglehold on mid, very little class competition (despite how much they 'enjoy' diversifying other lanes); assassins suck

Singlehandedly render vast majority of juggernauts useless and out of meta despite being "bad" at handling durable target's

multiple occasions of completely ruining top lane by themselves; are almost solely the reason bruisers got power creeped into designs like new Irelia and Aatrox (more range, more CC, strong all in from a distance)

Have been shitting up support for years, starting with Annie in season 3; continue to be a massive pest

Are now competing with marksmen for their native role; of Riot fucks up the item changes expect to not see marksmen

Constantly bellyache about AP jingles indicating their desire to ruin that role too

Can we do something about the mage menace? I'm tired of every planned or incidental "meta shift" being a mage leaving mid to utterly annihilate competition somewhere else.

exaggerating much, mages are completely ruining top lane because bacause range is good against melee? what about times when marksmens shit on top laners? you just get counterpicked go switch with your midlaner and you go against assassin

RevertCritOrAFKJan 3, 20194 votes

{quoted}

exaggerating much, mages are completely ruining top lane because bacause range is good against melee? what about times when marksmens shit on top laners? you just get counterpicked go switch with your midlaner and you go against assassin

Oh you mean for the one week or two? that they were allowed to work in a different lane? while viktor gets to stay there for months and laughs as if hes teemo but 10x better, because riot doenst want to make him unviable. but hey mages get to play any lane they want because rito bias. [sg-lux-2]

Exin0Jan 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Oh you mean for the one week or two? that they were allowed to work in a different lane? while viktor gets to stay there for months and laughs as if hes teemo but 10x better, because riot doenst want to make him unviable. but hey mages get to play any lane they want because rito bias. [sg-lux-2]

vayne on top was thin for more than week or two. Viktor on top was just product of buff and item abuse which make him very hard to kill. But this is problem of one champ not whole class, you dont see velkoz, lux or ziggs play on top. Moreover top 5 picks on top is like over 50% pickrate so what mage and how is completely ruining top? you make just blank statment about whole class please be more specific. On mid are mages doing better but still assassins and assasin like champ are picked more so you have some mages used as support like brand because they have hard time on mid other viable mage picks are morgana,lux and zyra aka stun bots and thats it.

GayFluffyUnicornJan 4, 20192 votes

Mages have destroyed toplane way harder for way longer than anything else. Ryze, lissandra, kennen the unholy trinity of bullshit on top.

Cassiopeia has always been flexed top for freelo.

So? Viktor is broken for MONTHS and doesn't get touched. Gets a bit base dmg off here and let'S give him better scaling, fixed forever. No you dumpster what makes him strong and then you revaluate how to make him better mid. But riot has ALWAYS been very careful with nerfing mages. Just look at how they continously buff kassa to be broken but ohhh he's an assassin right? Pure coincidence he builds the same item every mage builds. He doesn't go assassin builds like morello, lich bane first no he goes the same mage items everyone goes because THEY ARE SO BROKEN. They give EVERYTHING any AP champ would want. And mage players turn around and be like "yeah but but but its an assassin so it's okay".

Remember zed building titanic hydra? Hydra got dumpstered not zed. Noone said "oh well it's not the item since its a bruiser item not assassin item and zed is an assassin so zed is the problem".

PlsBuffMyMainJan 3, 20192 votes

No, bruisers are.

ZardoJan 3, 20192 votes

stranglehold on mid, very little class competition (despite how much they 'enjoy' diversifying other lanes); assassins suck

Mid lane pickrate + winrate, sorted by highest picked in plat+ kr. source here

I don't get what you're trying to get at here. There have been points where mages were pretty much the only champions picked mid(S7 after lethality was nerfed), but now is not that point.

Are now competing with marksmen for their native role; of Riot fucks up the item changes expect to not see marksmen

But they are not even anywhere remotely being the most picked champions bot, and marksman are considered complete garbage right now. source here

I agree that they need to be looked at in top. The ones picked top will most likely be seeing changes once riot gets off of their vacation.

Warlord RhinarkJan 3, 20191 votes

Well, what are your suggestions on how to fix them, then?

Moody PJan 3, 20194 votes

delete morello and give every assassin a silence that scales with enemy's AP

solved

Warlord RhinarkJan 3, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1qE5yxUc,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-01-03T14:50:23.000+0000)

delete morello and give every assassin a silence that scales with enemy's AP

solved

Ehhh I wouldn't really delete Morello, I would just remove the flat Magic Pen and reduce the AP to 75.

As for giving every Assassin a silence... don't they already have Hexdrinker and Amplifying Orb?