Second Wind v. Overgrowth

RookPusher·Dec 18, 2017·4 votes·7,927 views

I've been playing top a lot where (imo) health regen makes a huge difference during the laning phase. I'm increasingly underwhelmed by Overgrowth and I wonder how SW operates and if its worth taking?

28 Comments

omnicron007Dec 18, 20174 votes

second win is better than overgrowth in every situation unless you're playing some blatantly broken tank like maokai or cho'gath.

RookPusherDec 18, 20171 votes

Maokai is broken? Also, he benefits from a larger health pool so I get that but broken?

omnicron007Dec 18, 20177 votes

{quoted}

Maokai is broken? Also, he benefits from a larger health pool so I get that but broken?

in my opinion yes. I think his early game is too oppressive with his cc, dmg, and passive healing

KazekibaDec 18, 20173 votes

Overgrowth seems weird, it barely gives ~120-200 gold worth of HP, not even a full Ruby crystal, by late game. Even with Cinderhulk. infinitely scaling HP seems nice but its not so much "infinitely scaling" and more "one extra level worth of HP"

HibekiDec 18, 20171 votes

Overgrowth Grasp sion is great since all that adds up lol

SpoofghoulDec 18, 20171 votes

for sure, new grasp is going to be even better ^^

DuskDaUmbreonDec 18, 20171 votes

It gives a percentage of health. The same as Cinderhulk does.

It's good if you're someone who already stacks a lot of flat health, and you want more health (Sion and Cho'gath in particular). If you have it at +5%, it turns an extra 100hp into an extra 105hp. Doesn't seem like much. But it gives that scaling, and can translate to a huge amount in stalled games. Especially if you're Cho'gath or Sion.

Also, it does make a noticeable difference on champions that have a lot of armor and mr, but don't necessarily stack a lot of health directly. Shyvana and Morde come to mind from this.

BobaFlautistDec 18, 20173 votes

The problem with overgrowth is that by the time it has a big enough value to be meaningful, any amount of health <~1k is basically meaningless. The number of situations where you died with 4k hp and would loved with 4.5k hp is tiny, and it gets worse as hp values get higher - anything that can shred through 5k or 6k or 7k hp isn't gonna care about another 500. Second Wind is incredibly good in touch lane matchups where you get poked, it's like a free doran's passive.

woodvsmurphDec 18, 20172 votes

If you plan on ending game by probably 30 min or less and/or you have a tough matchup 2nd wind is just better. If you plan on a very long game or you have a really easy matchup, overgrowth makes you more durable for mid/late game. That's basically what it comes down to. More durable early/laning phase vs 30+ min scaling durability. Another way to look at it... you get maybe 300cs in a game if it's longer match as the toplaner. 300/8=37.5 "stacks". Each stack gives 0.2% max hp. So assume you have 4k hp tank or bruiser. 0.2% of 4k hp is 8hp. 37.5*8= 300hp. That's approximately what you'd have by the END of a long game.

WeedbroDec 18, 20172 votes

overgrowth is so bad, don't take it

M00ndanc3Dec 18, 20171 votes

its good late game on champs who work well with hp and want to opt for more resistance efficiant items since on cho it winds up giving around a bonus 200-400 hp at 20-25 min as long as you were able to stay in lane

Sire HippingtonDec 18, 20172 votes

Overgrowth sadly is rather bad, even on champs that tend to get lots of hp for the %scaleing, games simply don't last long enough for it to be really usefull. If you find your self in a 40min+ game on any champ that tneds to get 3k+ hp, then it can be strong, but that is a rarther rare thing these days.

SasogwaDec 19, 20172 votes

Second wind is better in laning, overgrowth scales better.

Apparently NoobDec 19, 20171 votes

I disagree, most tanks do better with Second Win even later on, because the in-combat healing of second wind is incredibly valuable.

You can't counter in-combat healing with percent true damage, it's hard to account for (hidden healing) and it straight up heals more than you get hp with Overgrowth, even later on.

It's only a contest in situations where you have an HP scaling (like on Sion, Cho'gath, etc.) and even then I would get Second Wind. Because hidden power is best power.

SasogwaDec 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Apparently Noob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1puVy53b,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2017-12-19T01:25:21.404+0000)

I disagree, most tanks do better with Second Win even later on, because the in-combat healing of second wind is incredibly valuable.

You can't counter in-combat healing with percent true damage, it's hard to account for (hidden healing) and it straight up heals more than you get hp with Overgrowth, even later on.

It's only a contest in situations where you have an HP scaling (like on Sion, Cho'gath, etc.) and even then I would get Second Wind. Because hidden power is best power.

Honestly I don't think 0.4% max health / second healing is that efficient in fights. Or at least they gotta last pretty long.

One other thing to get overgrowth is if your champion uses % max health scalings (Mundo, Cho for instance) or titanic hydra

Apparently NoobDec 19, 20171 votes

That's literally what I just said bro

BirboniusDec 18, 20171 votes

I play more bruisers than tanks,and still i find myself preferring second wind in most matches,that's because matchups that can win by poking or fatigue you are not that rare,and i prefer being safe with that extra regen (especially if it's a teemo,that+ item 1054 + item 3211 is some regen you wouldn't imagine) instead of hoping to stay near enough minions to be tanky enough for teamfights where my enemies will be most likely fed because they dove me too many times.

So,i recommend Overgrowth over Second wind only if you're sure that your lane will be passive AF

AwesomeGuyDjDec 18, 20171 votes

Second wind+doran shield gives alot of regen. IF you REALLY need it, you can get a refillable to. Throw in specters cowl if they're ap and upgrade to spirit for maximum meme.

M00ndanc3Dec 18, 20171 votes

my personal fav is to go for glacial augment with resolve secondary for second wind on tahm kench that way not only do you have good all in since they cant run away with you having two slows but now everytime they try to harrass you they have to deal with the regen from item 1054 item 3211 item 2031

SkorchDec 18, 20171 votes

In my experience i like SW if im someone who wants to non-stop win lane. Renekton Urgot Yorick . And Overgrowth if i want to just be REALLY tanky late: Ornn Chogath Maokai Sion

KlydeFrogDec 18, 20171 votes

Second wind for poke and always get dorans shield. Overgrowth every other time.

Meep ManDec 19, 20171 votes

I find Second Win better is better in most cases unless you are someone who builds absolute tons of health, like Cho'Gath.

FalconPawwwwnchDec 19, 20171 votes

Second Wind is almost broken and overgrowth is trash

V The Support VDec 19, 20171 votes

Over growth goes nicely with Demolish

kaironenDec 19, 20171 votes

Second wind > Overgrowth at top lane. Overgrowth > Second wind in the jungle. The only time you would even consider Overgrowth at top lane is if you are playing versus against someone like nasus since they poke less. However Overgrowth in general is only good for its scaling which happens more often in lower elo (games last longer). Higher elo games, Overgrowth will generally be weaker.