Hey Meddler, when are you guys gonna acknowledge Nasus is a shit champion and needs help?

HateDaddy·Sep 12, 2016·15 votes·1,369 views

His winrate has remained 47-48% for pretty much the entire season even though he has always typically kept a 51% winrate on average every other season. So he's not winning a lot of games, partly because games end quickly and mid game happens much earlier, which hurts his normal power spike (again Nasus is a mid game champion).

Nasus hasn't felt like he's had his late game fantasy probably since season 3, maybe even season 2. That was striped away from him with all the nerfs he received, all the nerfs his items have received and in exchange he's gotten one buff since then. He's hardly benefited from most of the changes this season and I'd suggest he has been hit harder by indirect changes than he's been helped by them.

I realize buffing him is probably something most rioters are kind of sketchy on but can we get something? This guy was the original juggernaut, one of the original league of legends "hyper carry" but the game has evolved and through his nerfs on combination with game evolution, he just can't keep up anymore. Please tell me you have some plans for him.

37 Comments

Sona x RubickSep 13, 20167 votes

since his all of this ranges nerf he was olafed in every aspect of the games and needs something

but hey let's downvote cause nasus is op in bronze

HateDaddySep 12, 20164 votes

Wow don't downvote me Marc Merrill

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 12, 20163 votes

Your title and first sentence together demand a downvote... its pretty bad.

HateDaddySep 12, 20163 votes

Click bait wins in these boards chief

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 12, 20162 votes

anyways, when nasus is strong a certain type of meta arises when he's weak it tends to be better.

If he's been strong every other meta and is weak in one riot isn't going to care much

But additionally Nasus's bad design, if any, isn't a matter of wins to losses. He's either designed well or he isn't. There's no helping him a little. The second you help him he warps the meta. What are you gonna do that wont bust him seriously... he needs a rework if anything. Unless you actually liked the nasus-is-strong meta.. then by all means buff

HateDaddySep 12, 20163 votes

{quoted}

anyways, when nasus is strong a certain type of meta arises when he's weak it tends to be better.

If he's been strong every other meta and is weak in one riot isn't going to care much

But additionally Nasus's bad design, if any, isn't a matter of wins to losses. He's either designed well or he isn't. There's no helping him a little. The second you help him he warps the meta. What are you gonna do that wont bust him seriously... he needs a rework if anything. Unless you actually liked the nasus-is-strong meta.. then by all means buff

I've stated numerous times I prefer a rework

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 12, 20161 votes

But you suggested that merely rebalancing is acceptable as a normal course of action. And for that you are a silly person.

SasogwaSep 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

anyways, when nasus is strong a certain type of meta arises when he's weak it tends to be better.

???

Nasus is not a meta defining champion in any means. Meta defining champions are strong laners or insane early bullies, great utility champions or monstruous hardcarries with somewhat safe laning. Nasus fills literally none of these niches and at best if after big buffs he did fit the hardcarry niche, he would still be counterable and/or completely fucked by laneswaps.

Also better it tends to be better in what way? Do you actually play this game or what? Last time Nasus was strong, he wasn't even toplane, he was jungle as an objective control/ carry denier with old wither. He had little play potential and was actually an average jungler that couldn't carry crap if his team lost. Maxing E, he also had little stacks so meh scaling.

Last time Nasus was strong in lategame was season 2. Arguably one of the most balanced seasons. Assassins had good burst but were weak against tanks, also they fell of as they should. ADC actually used real defensive items like GA or banshees and weren't so oppressive damage-wise, lanebullies were in the correct spot. Nasus was actually complete garbage in general in the metagame BUT he was strong in lategame. The thing is, there was rarely big lategame there, so he was basically in the absolute perfect niche. He was countered as he should be by early game bullies, that, as they should be, scaled poorly into lategame, and, as they should do, had to keep the upper hand before Nasus could come back, and usually did. And that was just.. normal. (he had around 45% winrate and was widely considered bad, there's also a video of scarra saying how bad nasus is and that he'd eat his hat if voyboy picked Nasus) Right now, half lane bullies are also for some reason mid/lategame carries or at least don't fall off at all ; keystones gives tons of damage to champions that shouldn't, the mobility and damage creep are absolutely ridiculous and it's stupid to the point you have to be at least mobile, have decent damage and have CC on top of that to be viable (all hail the overloaded kits). And you tell me it tends to be better? Well I don't know what you're on, but I want some too.

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 12, 20161 votes

Nasus was strong in the meta of either season 4 or 5 or both. I don't really care if it was top lane or not. He doesn't have to be literally meta defining. The unhealthy meta arose and it correlated with a strong nasus on multiple occasions. There has absolutely never been any meta in which the community was happy about nasus being strong. You can argue balance from sun up to sun down and its not going to fix toxicity.

Nasus is rarely strong in a realistic lategame, when he was he was feast or famine which is just another form of toxicity.

Everything about him is obsolete designwise.. as in regardless of viability. He needs to be redone but this wont happen before the assassin update I imagine.

DreadlocksSep 12, 20163 votes

Don't you think using winrate as part of ur argument is rather weak?

HateDaddySep 12, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Rengo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ktEIpJA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-09-12T23:03:53.135+0000)

Don't you think using winrate as part of ur argument is rather weak?

Yes but this board is convinced that winrate means everything. And quite frankly, I've spent a lot of time and effort on constructing more elaborate posts only for it to go ignored or be downvote bombed by lower Elo players who are convinced Nasus is the best champion in the game.

DreadlocksSep 12, 20162 votes

Nasus is definitely not the monster he use to be, but saying he's a shit champion is rather exaggerated. Especially with win-rate being part of your argument.

adidasSep 12, 20163 votes

Why dont you talk with some fuckin respect

HateDaddySep 12, 20168 votes

{quoted}

Why dont you talk with some fuckin respect

Ur name makes me want a churro

SchàdenfreudeSep 12, 20161 votes

LOL

Don't make fun of his name man, that's rude.

Swiftstrike4Sep 13, 20163 votes

Nasus does NOT need a rework. He just needs minor buffs and/or item buffs. He has been hit too hard with indirect nerfs from different items changing, the games moving a bit faster, and CC prevalent comps. I have 1.3 million mastery with him and I manage to get to Gold I maining him. But it was such a slog to get good enough with a subpar champion that I sometimes think I would have been better off learning another top laner.

TL;DR at the end. I also suggest you read the "What should be done section".

His win rate started to dip below 50% around the time of the mid season mage update (I believe).

Problems with Nasus:

Tenacity is just too low in the game at the moment. Slows from just from AAing and using abilities makes it very difficult to gap close with him. is a must build item for him, but even this offers too little tenacity. The resolve tree mastery Swiftness has to be taken for even this item to feel noticeable.
Armor items haven't really receive a buff recently (mostly nerfs) and are pretty costly. With at one point being too strong (an item that Nasus DOES NOT BUILD) and receiving some minor buffs. This is an item that Nasus typically builds later. is a terrible item at this point and a very very bad item for Nasus. I have no idea why it is in the recommended build page since Nasus has a tendency to gravitate towards non health items early such as and . The item is not effective for what it does, offers no health (which Nasus NEEDS) and you need several other pieces of armor for the passive to be effective. Just spend the Gold build or and build tank items that offer health and resistances. You need effective health and thornmail is an incomplete tank item that is completely situational. is a core early item for him and it is just in a terrible spot. It is a really cost inefficient item at this point: 1000 gold for 10% CDR, 25 armor and 250 mana. I might as well build first for the extra 50 gold, but I can't, because I can't risk an early death as Nasus. If I die after returning with sheen it can really screw up my laning phase because my base stats are not too good.
Several damage items that Nasus would sometimes build were also nerfed due to their prevalence on other champions and damage items that Nasus would sometimes build were nerfed.
Nasus did not benefit from really any keystone, while most other keystones helped other top laners a lot. Fervor is good for carry tops, Grasp helped with champions that lacked great sustain, and thunders helped burst champions down. What about ? The best keystone for him is Storm, but if I go into that tree I give up the tenacity from swiftness. If I run storm I basically hope to win lane and simply split-push the remainder of the game. Once I group I will be useless unless my team is ahead and even then. If my team is ahead other top lane champions would simply be better than Nasus at this point for grouping. Strength of the Ages is OK on him and I am beginning to use it a lot more than grasp, because I think it is the most effective keystone for him at this point. I stay in the resolve tree, get my Swiftness and I stack health. Nasus' health scaling compared to the other juggernauts is really poor and I think giving him a bit of a boost in his health will really up his win rate.
Damage items for ADC are in a good spot, but the early flat armor pen builds are mitigating Nasus' power spike, which is in the mid game. and builds are problematic items for Nasus early since he tends to build armor early and health later.

Changes that have helped Nasus:

buffs have both helped and harmed Nasus. Triforce buffed a lot of other champions besides Nasus making it more viable for him with the CDR and the removal of crit. The problem is that is also helped other champions that build triforce. So when you consider the absolute impact on Nasus it was a buff, but if you look at the relative gain it was probably negligible.
this is now a very good item for Nasus int he late game. He gets kited and dies easily, GA offers a second life so that he can tank for the team and then come back after all the CC and skills are blown on him. It offers magic resistance and armor. The cost of this item being lowered was a great help for him.
The changes to sated devourer and have helped Nasus, just because fewer top laners are building it.
nerfs. At first I thought this hurt Nasus, since he needs mobility to avoid getting kited. After playing for months with the nerfs I think this change helped Nasus just because it hurt several other champions.
buff have helped and harmed Nasus. It is now a viable purchase again for him, but it is also viable for all the tank assassins, making it more difficult to kill them. I still see it as a net gain at the moment.
Nerfs to helped with Nasus' laning phase.
Any nerf to has helped Nasus because of the tank ekko prevelance. Unless the Ekko was bad, they could always easily escape Nasus and still CC him in any team fight or deal damage to him. The stickiness of Ekko combine with his pre-nerf damage was highly problematic for laning and team fights. Just one Ekko could shut Nasus down in games.
Nerfs to : This champion's mobility, global ultimate, and damage posed a big problem for Nasus. could sit in lane, harass Nasus throughout laning and simply use his ultimate to teamfight. Didn't matter how many stacks Nasus had, the Gangplank slows, mobility, damage, ability to kit, wave clear, and his orange literally made this champion ALMOST impossible to kill. He also outscaled Nasus. GP nerfs helped everyone but this particular champion was highly problem and frequently picked into Nasus. GP's win rate is fallen, but I still think he is a problematic laning opponent.
Buffs to . This item syncs so well with Nasus it is essentially a must buy, even with low MR comps. It is probably a bit too strong at the moment, but the changes to this item really helped Nasus.
getting CDR and lower cost. Great item for Nasus. The problem is that the change helped a lot of other champions as well.
getting buffed. I know a lot of Nasus players run , but ghost with the lower cooldown and the scaling is better for Nasus. With Ghost up I can almost ALWAYS secure a kill, but with just flash there is no guarantee. Trading flashes in lane is a bad scenario for Nasus (who ultimately loses the trade because he loses his main escape and he has none). Ghost is just more viable on Nasus at this point because it offers him the gap close he needs, a lower cooldown, and a pretty good escape and teamfight summoner to dodge CC.

What should be done:

Nasus needs base stat buffs, particularly his hp scaling is extremely poor for a juggernaut.
Itemization changes. I honestly don't know what should be changed. I think overtuning armor would help too many other champions besides Nasus. I think buffing or even is a good place to begin when considering what items should be adjusted. These are both niche items and it would really help Nasus' out.
Grant tenacity from stacks. I think this should be a passive for Nasus. Something to the effect of 1% tenacity for every 100 stacks. Most games a good Nasus will get somewhere in the range of 500-600 stacks in a 30ish minute game. That's 5%-6% tenacity and that is probably all it will take for Nasus to be viable in a team fight again. And if the Nasus stacks poorly he gets a lower reward. I think this is exactly what he needs. This completely aligns with the goals for the champion: Sacrificing the early game for a superior late game. CC comps and passives on specific items have really mitigated the strength of stacking effectively and then actually participating in the game. I just want to split-push when I play Nasus, I hate grouping in the mid-late game because I simply just die, regardless of my stack count. Granting Tenacity resolves a big issue with Nasus
If you aren't going to give Nasus this passive, buff the range of wither or make merc treads stronger.__

TL;DR

Buff Nasus' base stats, more specifically his health scaling or base health
Grant Nasus 1% additional tenacity for every 100 stacks or buff wither range or merc treads
Buff at the minimum or (some type of itemization change that more directly helps him than other champions)
Alter the masteries in a manner that they significantly benefit Nasus and other tanks. The resolve tree is terrible.

I think most of these changes are pretty reasonable and are probably minor enough to get him back closer to 50% win rate. They will go a long way.

AhristocatsSep 13, 20163 votes

revert his W range nerf

or his ulti nerf that used to increased the W range, i think this one is better so he doesn't have a good amount of power 24/7

in this meta where everyone can get a slow somehow with tons of slowing items, and where every champs get a cc/knock up in their rework, it's no longer an issue

LanarrinSep 14, 20161 votes

no make his W slow less than 99.9999999999999%. i think ive seen my champ walk towards him in some cases because the slow is so broken.

AhristocatsSep 17, 20161 votes

has nothing to do with the slow, but you being retarded

DunkinNoobsSep 13, 20162 votes

Nasus can't really be good with how his kit currently works. Is the solution a rework of sorts? Perhaps.

WarmanreaperSep 12, 20161 votes

Nasus is freelo lol. Nobody knows how to beat him besides harassment.

HateDaddySep 12, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Nasus is freelo lol. Nobody knows how to beat him besides harassment.

wut

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 12, 20162 votes

You can beat nasus with harass? Wait I guess it depends on your defintion

WarmanreaperSep 14, 20161 votes

As in a Darius that Q's nasus each time he goes up to get CS. As long as he doesn't stack he's weak as amumu without being tanky.

AnonagonSep 12, 20161 votes

u rite tho hatedaddy

real question though do you think Nasus' kit as it is (sans-numbers) is fine or do you think he needs some kind of rework? while his Q is a really important ability for his power fantasy, I think every one of his other abilities is uninspired at best, and annoying to deal with at worst.

HateDaddySep 12, 20163 votes

{quoted}

u rite tho hatedaddy

real question though do you think Nasus' kit as it is (sans-numbers) is fine or do you think he needs some kind of rework? while his Q is a really important ability for his power fantasy, I think every one of his other abilities is uninspired at best, and annoying to deal with at worst.

I think he definitely needs a rework. I don't think this version of Nasus can ever be healthy.

SasogwaSep 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I think he definitely needs a rework. I don't think this version of Nasus can ever be healthy.

Is that really so? After all he's very simple to counterplay and should be "beat early, kite your best possible late but you should have lower chances of winning cause you let nasus farm". Typically way less frustrating than insanely high mobility/CC champions imo

HateDaddySep 12, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Is that really so? After all he's very simple to counterplay and should be "beat early, kite your best possible late but you should have lower chances of winning cause you let nasus farm". Typically way less frustrating than insanely high mobility/CC champions imo

I don't think you remember what it was like when he was pick/ban. There's really not outplaying Nasus, it's just a question of whether you are better than him statistically. His lane phase has interesting dynamics and power spikes but when he's good, especially when he's good, his laner is often left with the feeling of watching certain destruction building in front of them while being able to do little to prevent it.

Many of the new designs might have a lot of stuff but there is room to outplay them, even when they're good. Ancient shit like Nasus just clicks on you. I love him, he's my favorite champion but that's just the truth.

SasogwaSep 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you remember what it was like when he was pick/ban. There's really not outplaying Nasus, it's just a question of whether you are better than him statistically. His lane phase has interesting dynamics and power spikes but when he's good, especially when he's good, his laner is often left with the feeling of watching certain destruction building in front of them while being able to do little to prevent it.

Many of the new designs might have a lot of stuff but there is room to outplay them, even when they're good. Ancient shit like Nasus just clicks on you. I love him, he's my favorite champion but that's just the truth.

I kind of know the feeling of laning against a good Nasus without having quite a counterpick. But he's never been pick or ban in lane. He was arguably good in toplane when doran's shield was OP ; but at that time so were the 4 main top picks in competitive : Mundo, Shyvana, Trundle and Renekton. He was arguably a competitive jungler but that's another story and as I already said it was mostly about wither and his ult for fast drake/baron killing. He didn't really outshine the other junglers that much in utility, he was similar.

holywastedSep 12, 20161 votes

ugh thats not the direction that they want to take Nasus. Nasus doesnt have escapes since after he gets core items about level 13 after they'd rather AFK than 1v1 Nasus. Nasus was always banned because of this.

PermabannedGarenSep 12, 20161 votes

I feel you in spirit man. Even though I don't play Nasus Rito hasn't said a fucking peep about Yi's shitty state since the removal of devourer, so I know how you feel.

I just wish Riot would grow some balls and just tell the community which champions it feels can't be allowed to be strong because of their design. If Nasus or Yi (I may be biased but while I think Nasus is unhealthy I don't really think Yi is) can't be given love because they are unhealthy then just say that.

HateDaddySep 12, 20162 votes

I'm fine with that. I think Nasus is unhealthy but that doesn't mean you have to leave him shit tier forever. Rework him, I'm fine with that. While his design is unhealthy, it isn't pre rework poppy unhealthy

Ravenous HowlsSep 13, 20161 votes

My buddy Swifty already summed it up but I guarantee if they rework Nasus he will be ghost of his former self and will probably be so underwhelming and haphazardly put together most would cry for him to be reverted.

Long story short we don't need another over complicated, stat overloaded Frankenstein re-work running around in the game. WE need to keep older champions, like Nasus, who have a strong identity and fairly balanced kit relevant by updating them into each season with balances stat tweaks or not ruining all their itemization.

Everything Swift said is something I and most other Nasus mains have called for these past few years. The problem is there is an overabundance of CC, mobility and damage in the game and none of it is accessible to champion like Nasus and by contrast he's been given nothing new to help him cope with these changes. Other champions suffer from this as well. Garen, Udyr, Trundle have all been mostly left out of the game this season b/c it is far too easy to stop or slow their advance to objectives or your team as the items they want to build are costly or have been repeatedly nerfed.

Smok3McCl0udSep 13, 20161 votes

Nasus is still way overpowered. Tanky out to a million years infinite slow and 1 hits everything. Broken champ.

hhaavviikkSep 13, 20161 votes

and when are they going to make it fun to lane against him?

GetcuxcdSep 13, 20161 votes

just nerf op tops and hell be finer tahn he is already fine

P4ndr0d0rSep 14, 20161 votes

What is a Nasus but a miserable pile of stats? Im glad someone like HateDaddy is fighting for him because Riot left him to die 3 seasons ago ant i think he deserves better :(