Mark my words, Riot has just forced Nasus into the jungle and that’s how they’ll balance him

HateDaddy··49 votes·22,317 views

The +12 buff doesn’t really do a ton for lane Nasus because the dynamic of his lane hasn’t changed: either Nasus was able to farm or he wasn’t. All this buff has done for lane Nasus is make him stomp harder when even against most champions or ahead - which is what he has always done.

However, I’ve been seeing a lot of high elo streamers playing and complains about how absurd jungle Nasus is right now and that makes sense - theoretically, Nasus can obtain 100 stacks per each clear. As it stands, jungle Nasus is on par with lane Nasus in how quickly he stacks, in some cases jungle Nasus is stacking faster simply because 12 is more than 3. Sure, he’s prone to invades but those aren’t safe and you can take safe clearing paths now, especially if you do vertical jungling. Quite simply, it’s entirely possible that jungle Nasus is too good.

Why does this concern me? Obviously I am and have been a Nasus main since 2012. I’ve alwaya played him in the top lane and that’s more or less been his goto role baring season 3. Riot literally never reverts stupid changes, they just complicate their situation further by adding on several more stupid changes and inevitably dumpstering a champion until they get across the board buffs or a rework, neither of which Nasus really needs. He was honestly fine before these buffs for what it’s worth. However, now, what Riot will do will likely be taking stacks off his normal rate (go back to 2 instead of 3 like the old days), nerf wither range (again), nerf his ults cooldown or some other totally moronic change that will make him invariably worse and kill him in top lane altogether because of an idiotic change.

Riot, I don’t know what made you think this was a good idea but please, if you decide its time to nerf Nasus, just revert this stupid change. Don’t try to say “ugh but Nasus jungle is a totally hip and secret strat that has a dedicated following” because that isn’t true. He’s a top lane and that’s how he should be balanced. Please come to your senses and decide that this is the correct change to make (reverting the +12 buff).

Sincerely yours,

Someone who is still playing your game after 7 years (a group of people you practically don’t acknowledge anymore).

66 Comments

RiotRiot Wittrock42 votes

The potential strength of Nasus jungle is definitely on our radar. However, early strength indicators still show top lane as his primary role. We plan to continue balancing him around top.

ModThe Djinn15 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Wittrock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1i83Ubbq,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2019-01-13T02:51:24.096+0000)

The potential strength of Nasus jungle is definitely on our radar. However, early strength indicators still show top lane as his primary role. We plan to continue balancing him around top.

Have you considered differing values for Jungle Monsters vs. Large Minions then? The huge bonus for jungle monsters does seem to perhaps over-encourage jungle poaching or jungling -- at least in how it feels to read the ability, even if lane Nasus remains the superior option. Due to the relative infrequency of Seige Minions compared to large jungle monsters it feels more valuable in the jungle, which is something that might be worth addressing if you want to ensure Nasus reads more as a laning champion.

Unfortunately, I can't think of an especially crisp way to do that short of starting to do specific values for Large Minions vs. Large Monsters, or giving enhanced bonuses for, say, Melee Minions / Caster Minions over monsters.

Beerstein1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1i83Ubbq,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2019-01-13T03:06:06.448+0000)

Have you considered differing values for Jungle Monsters vs. Large Minions then? The huge bonus for jungle monsters does seem to perhaps over-encourage jungle poaching or jungling -- at least in how it feels to read the ability, even if lane Nasus remains the superior option. Due to the relative infrequency of Seige Minions compared to large jungle monsters it feels more valuable in the jungle, which is something that might be worth addressing if you want to ensure Nasus reads more as a laning champion.

Unfortunately, I can't think of an especially crisp way to do that short of starting to do specific values for Large Minions vs. Large Monsters, or giving enhanced bonuses for, say, Melee Minions / Caster Minions over monsters.

Agreed, as a jungler I was playing Amumu who struggles a bit early and really needs his gold to scale late game. I had the misfortune of having a Nasus on my team and had my own jungle demolished by my ally. Still won but it was much harder than it should have been, and I'll be honest, I came out of that game feeling worse than I normally do after losses. It was not fun at all.

Maybe if it only stacks on enemy JG minions, or if you have a jungle item, that way as a laner he can hit enemy jungle, but as a jungler he can still hit his own.

By doing this it might also allow them to balance him around Jungle AND top lane at the same time by simply adjusting the stacks per kill.

A girl Supp Main14 votes

Boards: "Why doesn't Riot respond to the boards?!"

Also Boards: Downvotes a concise answer from a Rioter regarding their current stance over the concern of a thread.

AirKingNeo6 votes

because Riot has done things to make the (Gameplay) boards angry at them.

Moody P6 votes

gameplay boards fosters a massive victim complex and loves to pretend they're oppressed by riot

Wolfeur5 votes

True or not, your statement is no excuse

R107 Games2 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Girl Supp Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1i83Ubbq,comment-id=00170001,timestamp=2019-01-13T04:07:33.081+0000)

Boards: "Why doesn't Riot respond to the boards?!"

Also Boards: Downvotes a concise answer from a Rioter regarding their current stance over the concern of a thread.

Being a rioter doesn't shield you from downvotes.

Downvotes don't mean anything anyways

Anchorit Wracaj4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Wittrock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1i83Ubbq,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2019-01-13T02:51:24.096+0000)

The potential strength of Nasus jungle is definitely on our radar. However, early strength indicators still show top lane as his primary role. We plan to continue balancing him around top.

He is at 43% win rate in jungle. He will remain bad.Because stacks isn't the thing he needs.Yes I know you want big damage creep in the game to make it more flashy.But Nasus is champion with zero mobility,and zero gap closing.He always will be CCed+kited.And with this damage creep he will just get lockdown in 1.5 second.So no matter how many stacks he have,he wont be any better.After 800 stacks,it doesn't even matter is it 800 or 900 or 1100.Its small difference on DMG to champions in late game. He needs armor/mr/health buffs.No matter how much u pump those damage numbers for Nasus,he still wont be any better.

Dope Solo2 votes

Its good to have things 'on the radar', it just seems like you all go months between pings and the game becomes unplayable in the interim.

Arammus1 votes

fun fact: nasus pickrate went up pretty high the first day, but then rapidly went down again because people realized its still nasus. needs to farm for quite a while and besides his w is a victim to cc.

D357R0Y3R13 votes

which "high elo streamer" is complaining?

you can give him +12 stacks on large monsters he's still nasus, countered by kiting terrible in high mmr

put him in the jungle right now against kindred + ranged midlaners and he won't do anything

HateDaddy5 votes

{quoted}

which "high elo streamer" is complaining?

you can give him +12 stacks on large monsters he's still nasus, countered by kiting terrible in high mmr

put him in the jungle right now against kindred + ranged midlaners and he won't do anything

Dom did a video, I watched TF blade and SRO complain about it yesterday a few times live on stream yesterday too. And it’s bit about that, he gets his mid game so fast in the jungle and rampages through people. I agree overall that he still has his problems but that’s never stopped Riot from nerfing shit before. Nevertheless, when Nasus is getting almost 300 stacks at 10-12 minutes, that’s kind of a problem. And again, you can take different paths to avoid being shut down hard in the jungle as him.

BestPudgeNA10 votes

{quoted}

Dom did a video, I watched TF blade and SRO complain about it yesterday a few times live on stream yesterday too. And it’s bit about that, he gets his mid game so fast in the jungle and rampages through people. I agree overall that he still has his problems but that’s never stopped Riot from nerfing shit before. Nevertheless, when Nasus is getting almost 300 stacks at 10-12 minutes, that’s kind of a problem. And again, you can take different paths to avoid being shut down hard in the jungle as him.

Dom has basically said he is dogshit and just doing it for the 1000 stacks Nasus is broken clickbait content.

D357R0Y3R5 votes

{quoted}

Dom did a video

LUL

I watched TF blade and SRO complain about it

No clue who is SRO, but TF blade plays melee champions who are all weak into Nasus, this is pure bias

EU junglers playing in challenger like Taikki said that Nasus is dogshit, and not only him but also Skeanz.

If you don't know those names then look on google

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Essentially the best Renekton right now (or at least most famous high elo Renekton).

But yeah, it's all fluff. Nasus is same as always. No amount of Q buffs are gonna fix him dying in 2 seconds while not being able to touch anyone.

Beerstein1 votes

{quoted}

Essentially the best Renekton right now (or at least most famous high elo Renekton).

But yeah, it's all fluff. Nasus is same as always. No amount of Q buffs are gonna fix him dying in 2 seconds while not being able to touch anyone.

I had to Predator+Magical Footwear+Approach velocity just to get near enemies. I know some are running that+ghost, some relentless hunter. (I went with ultimate hunter though) and then Tri force for more. All in, that's a LOT to put into movement speed just to get near enemies. This is all assuming the enemy doesn't destroy your jungle.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Yeah I play him with Approach Velocity too and when I W them it still feels like I'm too slow.

Beerstein1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I play him with Approach Velocity too and when I W them it still feels like I'm too slow.

I think predator is pretty much a requirement.

vArgyrus1 votes

Agreed, Nasus does really badly against most ranged champions because he get's harassed by them really early.

Blåbæret7 votes

Nasus jungle is absolute garbage. Stop overreacting.

Janna Me Fiddle1 votes

{quoted}

Nasus jungle is absolute garbage. Stop overreacting.

If he's got laners that aren't stupid, he's going to farm in that jungle because invades will get collapsed on.

If he's not stupid he'll ward carefully to keep eyes on the enemy jungle at all times allowing him to purposely play to avoid them

If he's not stupid he won't inefficently wait for his Q on small monsters and use it on the big ones.

9.2 will take away a lot of invaders power, he's strong now but yes he can be managed by strong early invaders, those invaders are on the cards for a hefty nerf that will allow farm junglers like Nasus to rocket up the meta standings.

But going "He's garbage" when he's very much able to play around it even pre-nerf when he can go Righteous Glory/Predator/Ghost/Chilling Smite/IBG to stick to targets and smack people around like nobodies business shows a very "I refuse to admit the meta is starting to turn" mentality.

Look at OP.GG and note the current top 5 bot laners with the exception of Lucian are a very different top 5 to what we've had preseason, heck MF has fell to number 9 and Jihn out of the top 10.

There's change coming, the sleepers are ready to take over, once the smite nerfs and jungle exp changes go through, farm junglers like Udyr/Shyv/Nasus will be very much back on the cards.

Blåbæret1 votes

Jungle Nasus has a negative win rate, man. The champion is inherently outdated and has seen countless buffs and still sucks. The only elo this champ works is in iron and bronze.

Fire Blaustoise6 votes

However, I’ve been seeing a lot of high elo streamers playing and complains about how absurd jungle Nasus is right now and that makes sense

Its a NA thing.... I saw some EU streamers playing him and they all agree the pick is still trash in jungle.

The pick is too weak during laning (good luck against champion like Aatrox, kled...), weak gank potential, meh clearing, easly kiteable... When meta will shift (i think we'll be back into tanks meta sadly) he'll be okay tho... in low elo.

Don’t try to say “ugh but Nasus jungle is a totally hip and secret strat that has a dedicated following” because that isn’t true.

Yeah... really hope they wont. I dont wanna dodge every time a mate pick him in jungle. Jungle is the role where you're recquired to be proactive.

He’s a top lane and that’s how he should be balanced.

[vlad-salute]

BestPudgeNA3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1i83Ubbq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-12T11:08:37.796+0000)

Its a NA thing.... I saw some EU streamers playing him and they all agree the pick is still trash in jungle.

The pick is too weak during laning (good luck against champion like Aatrox, kled...), weak gank potential, meh clearing, easly kiteable... When meta will shift (i think we'll be back into tanks meta sadly) he'll be okay tho... in low elo.

Yeah... really hope they wont. I dont wanna dodge every time a mate pick him in jungle. Jungle is the role where you're recquired to be proactive.

[vlad-salute]

It's not even an NA thing the 2 people playing him in the JG are Dom and Trick and both of them agree that he is Dogshit at being a jungler

BestPudgeNA6 votes

{quoted}

theoretically, Nasus can obtain 100 stacks per each clear.

Buffs don't spawn ever time and you can't actually clear every camp in the time if you try to stack everything. Something along the lines of 60-72 ever clear is more realistic. But that means you never gank or do anything besides farm.

Nasus won't be a JG champ baring some sort of mini rework that makes it so he can actually gank.

Z3Sleeper3 votes

Max possible is 99 (4 small raptors right?). But yeah, it means he's slow clearing. Like, extra slow. Q has a cooldown. Q'ing every raptor and krug takes over 35 seconds each with rank 2 Q. Way too long.

Realistically it's gonna just be the large monsters and maybe 2-3 small ones. So 72-81 with buffs, 48-57 without them.

A girl Supp Main1 votes

I think his clear is gonna be surprisingly fast considering the enemy jungler will be doing it with him.

Sexy Jack Rabbit4 votes

Taliyah Welcome to the Club item 3070

MrFawknSunshine4 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.1/platinum/plus/champion/Nasus/Jungle/

nasus has a 44.28% win rate in jungle this patch. he is ranked 50th out of 50 junglers

Moonscourge3 votes

No, because he is still absolute trash. I love people playing him there though. JUst afking each camp because they need to wait 5 seconds for their Q to come back up for every creep etc. Trash players. He can't gank and you're just playing a bad farming champ in a role that's supposed to have impact. He can't solo dragon, his gank is a medium ranged SLOW, no CC, no dueling power, no range. Nothing.

Poske3 votes

Tbh I cant imagine nasus jungle functioning well

If you want a carry jungler Kindred, Yi and Graves are all better Not to mention that I would imagine nasus ganks, invades and early 1v1s are quite bad.

Bløød Zerø2 votes

Tbh if they truly wanted to give nasus a balanced buff they could have made every normal minion and small monster give 4 stacks and every cannon or large monster and champion 8 allowing nasus to reliably be able to farm lanes under tower he would lose and when the wave isn't under his tower he can go clear his side gromp for 8 stacks.

Like this way he still needs to prioritize cannons but also needs to know wave management, and his lane matchups.

Also adding the 1 to 2 extra stacks wouldn't be outrageous of a buff because everyone already knows if he gets ahead for some bs reason due to not shutting his farming down he's go8ng to be heavily stacked anyways.

With adding those extra 1 to 2 stacks compared to making large monsters and minions 12 is also great cus if you practice farming with him you will get rewarded. Instead now I see this impactful role taken by a champ who can't bring the impact needed for jg just because some stupidity like he gets stacks faster. Sorry Susan but idc if you get more stacks faster I care about jungle pressure and objectives.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Beerstein2 votes

I already did a couple Nasus jungle games BEFORE this...He was horrible, I think at best now this just makes him JG/Top. I don't think he'll be anything special in the jungle once opponents adapt to his Jungle play. So in a way he'll be in a similar position to Amumu in that he'll be viable but difficult to pull off, especially against experienced junglers.

To look at it from another perspective, if Amumu were released as a champion today, the boards would be screaming like banshees about gap closer/snare, two AOE damages AND the Ult AOE with a PERCENTAGE AOE damage spell he can leave on all the time making initiates super easy, high base stats, then icing on the cake the ultimate...Some people might counter with "well he's really vulnerable in the jungle and has mana issues, or once he goes in he can't get out." others would say "he doesn't need to get out if he slaughters everything when he goes in." but ultimately, riot would probably nerf him before players adapted to him. Because he's so well known and players are hyper aware of how to play against him, he currently struggles a lot.

Nasus is in the same position in that regard. I'd even say the play to shut him down will be similar to how people constantly shut amumus down. Both can also be extremely devastating by mid/late game if left alone or ignroed. but that's always been a thing with Nasus, and again, is a thing with other champs as well.

TL;DR He may see a little jungle play this season, but it'll mostly be very early on evolving into a mediocre jungle as opposed to previously non-viable.

Aseraan2 votes

Im fine whit jungle nasus there is a lot more champ who can sht on him in jungle.

Beerstein1 votes

{quoted}

Im fine whit jungle nasus there is a lot more champ who can sht on him in jungle.

Nocturne man handled my jg. took all my big monsters :(

Aseraan2 votes

I hate nocturne jungle too hes fuking broken early game.

l love Ahri2 votes

Wooooah a rioter just responded and got downvotes. Maybe they would rather stay in the dark than coming here

Talon Gerrard1 votes

The idea of the buff was to be able to make lane Nasus be able to not be completely shut out of the game entirely if he falls behind and for him to be able to scale with how fast paced the games are nowadays. He isn't able to farm? Well not much he can do except try to farm under tower the best he can and try to make sure he gets the +12 stacks from cannons. If his the rest of his team isn't holding whatsoever for him to be able to catch up and scale, well then chances are his team isn't going to win the match anyway. Not much you can really do there with almost any champ if you fall behind. But, if you go pretty even and didn't fall behind too hard the chances are you can make a pretty decent comeback especially if your team makes it to late game when there's a cannon minion every wave. The whole Nasus being able to jungle again for the first time since season 4 is just something that indirectly happens to start working with this specific buff. Dark Harvest gets changed and suddenly you see Karthus jungle being viable. Did Riot plan that? Proooobably not. But hey Karthus players were probably happy to be able to try out a cool new way to play him.

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Talon Gerrard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1i83Ubbq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-12T06:52:35.953+0000)

The idea of the buff was to be able to make lane Nasus be able to not be completely shut out of the game entirely if he falls behind and for him to be able to scale with how fast paced the games are nowadays. He isn't able to farm? Well not much he can do except try to farm under tower the best he can and try to make sure he gets the +12 stacks from cannons. If his the rest of his team isn't holding whatsoever for him to be able to catch up and scale, well then chances are his team isn't going to win the match anyway. Not much you can really do there with almost any champ if you fall behind. But, if you go pretty even and didn't fall behind too hard the chances are you can make a pretty decent comeback especially if your team makes it to late game when there's a cannon minion every wave. The whole Nasus being able to jungle again for the first time since season 4 is just something that indirectly happens to start working with this specific buff. Dark Harvest gets changed and suddenly you see Karthus jungle being viable. Did Riot plan that? Proooobably not. But hey Karthus players were probably happy to be able to try out a cool new way to play him.

Nasus was fine before this change. Nasus wins most matchups post 6 once he gets sheen regardless of stacks, so that’s not really a problem either. His biggest issue is that he’s easy to camp and dive early on and this buff doesn’t change that. I don’t care if Nasus jungle is good either but if it comes at the expense of Nasus top, then I absolutely care. And historically, Riot doesn’t revert buffs either - they do random shit to “enhance strengths but make weaknesses more noticeable.” In other words, they fuck the champion all up.

Talon Gerrard2 votes

Well keep in mind that Nasus is worthless if the whole enemy team is ahead. He's super heavy single target damage. The team falls behind really fast then he can't do anything about it regardless on how he does in lane. He's easy to team up on and shred down, easy to kite out if he doesn't choose you to wither, and if he's behind then it makes all those weaknesses even more apparent. In this day and age where the games are very fast paced, Riot's past two changes to Nasus have been major buffs to speed him up. His ultimate change that decreases the cooldown of his Q and now the +12 change to cannons, large monsters, and champions. If you're a smart player then you'll know to try and hurt him while he tries to go for a cannon to either take out a lot of his health or force him to miss it. If you're jungler is smart, he'll know to get a good early game camp against him to try and keep him down enough for you to gain a lead and for you to able to abuse that lead while you out damage him. There's also the matter of learning to control the flow of the lane by learning how to freeze the waves to make it harder for Nasus to be able to come close to farm without you blowing up his health bar. There are a LOT of champions that can easily abuse a lead on Nasus and keep him down. And as for jungle Nasus you're jungler will have to be an idiot to not counter jungle him because he literally has the weakest early game in the game and his jungle clear is near nonexistent if he wants to take it slow and stack as much as possible.

Monstermushmush1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Talon Gerrard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1i83Ubbq,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-12T07:15:30.656+0000)

Well keep in mind that Nasus is worthless if the whole enemy team is ahead. He's super heavy single target damage. The team falls behind really fast then he can't do anything about it regardless on how he does in lane. He's easy to team up on and shred down, easy to kite out if he doesn't choose you to wither, and if he's behind then it makes all those weaknesses even more apparent. In this day and age where the games are very fast paced, Riot's past two changes to Nasus have been major buffs to speed him up. His ultimate change that decreases the cooldown of his Q and now the +12 change to cannons, large monsters, and champions. If you're a smart player then you'll know to try and hurt him while he tries to go for a cannon to either take out a lot of his health or force him to miss it. If you're jungler is smart, he'll know to get a good early game camp against him to try and keep him down enough for you to gain a lead and for you to able to abuse that lead while you out damage him. There's also the matter of learning to control the flow of the lane by learning how to freeze the waves to make it harder for Nasus to be able to come close to farm without you blowing up his health bar. There are a LOT of champions that can easily abuse a lead on Nasus and keep him down. And as for jungle Nasus you're jungler will have to be an idiot to not counter jungle him because he literally has the weakest early game in the game and his jungle clear is near nonexistent if he wants to take it slow and stack as much as possible.

He didn't say that wasn't true. All that he's saying is that he wants the Nasus buff reverted so that Riot doesn't nerf his other stats or abilities.

PhantoMTormentor1 votes

You are very right. I had a game against a nasus main who went jungle and i was with udyr. While i was ganking he was constantly farming and getting camps even from my jungle and around minute 15 he had 330 stacks from going from jungling to laning. We won but he was hard carrying 1v5.

Stray Kat4 votes

In that matchup you should be invading him Immediately. He doesn't get to leave base. If he steps into his jungle he finds empty camps or a scary Udyr.

Beerstein1 votes

{quoted}

In that matchup you should be invading him Immediately. He doesn't get to leave base. If he steps into his jungle he finds empty camps or a scary Udyr.

Yup, strongest lvl 2 jungler in the game against Nasus, idk what he's complaining about.

Anchorit Wracaj1 votes

He has no gank potential,weak early game.No mobility,no cc,with damage creep he just get locked down easily. So lmao,hes at 43% wr in jungle,and a lil bit higher in top lane. He needs a buff..BUT NOT DAMAGE BUFF,HE NEEDS ARMOR/MR/HP buffs.

Beerstein1 votes

{quoted}

He has no gank potential,weak early game.No mobility,no cc,with damage creep he just get locked down easily. So lmao,hes at 43% wr in jungle,and a lil bit higher in top lane. He needs a buff..BUT NOT DAMAGE BUFF,HE NEEDS ARMOR/MR/HP buffs.

I'd say the reason I actually don't like this buff is that it's sending selfish Nasus players into allied jungles rather than enemies, and it's damaging their own team.

Joseraph1 votes

Riot doesn't give a shit about champions roles, whether they're healthy or not in them. Case and point is Camille and Taliyah. The only time I remember Riot forcing a champ out of a role is Kayn(never forget Riot still hasn't delivered the promised Kayn top buffs)

KFCeytron1 votes

I like how the Riot response on this is just "I'mma lechu finish, but nuh-uh."

painkills1 votes

{quoted} Sincerely yours,

Someone who is still playing your game after 7 years (a group of people you practically don’t acknowledge anymore).

Really? Could you BE any more entitled and petty?

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