Cloak and Clone

The Ecdysiast·Jun 24, 2015·2 votes·797 views

Let force-explode Shaco's clone. It's bad enough he has a blink and a cloak, but when he doesn't have buffs on him he's got a free target and skillshot shield. It's supposed to be an illusion, yet unlike Leblanc's, it deals damage both with autos and on deletion. Red trinkets should make it disappear to allow counter-play.

Edit: Better yet, let's just take off the damage the ultimate does. At least then it doesn't turn any 1v1 in the jungle into a 2v1 he can blink out of anyway.

And in case any of you forgot what the range of that item is, it's nowhere near enough to catch the direction he's going in when he decides to blink away.

18 Comments

bearded squidJun 24, 20154 votes

it has counter play plus why should a trinket disable someones ultimate?? im guessing you were recently wrecked by a shaco

The EcdysiastJun 24, 20151 votes

Do explain the counterplay to adding a player to your own team.

The only counter-play to that is an AoE stun. Amumu "Why should something disable someone's ultimate." You mean like making it required because any fight with him is 2v1 that he can easily escape because his blink is cloaked?

bearded squidJun 24, 20151 votes

his clone isnt even like an extra player it only does half or two thirds of his damage and you can counter play it by having a pink ward so dont be bad and spend the money for dont sit there a hnd whine for an item that has no counterplay and shaco does have counterplay and its called a pink ward

The EcdysiastJun 24, 20151 votes

YOU CAN'T. PINKS DON'T REVEAL WHICH IS REAL OR MAKE IT DISAPPEAR.

bearded squidJun 24, 20151 votes

they do reveal which is real because are you ready for this they show stealthed champions and guess what?? his clone cant stealth so you will know which is the real one

The EcdysiastJun 25, 20151 votes

So I take it you're one of the newbie Shaco players who would make the mistake of cloaking while the enemy has a Red Trinket glowing on top of you.

It only works if he's stupid enough to use that in the middle of a fight.
The reds have a shorter range than his blink.

bearded squidJun 26, 20151 votes

who knew that a pink ward was also a red trinket

bearded squidJun 26, 20151 votes

also no i dont play shaco

ScreamPasteJun 24, 20153 votes

Shaco made you mad. Shaco did his job. Shaco was a better player than you.

The EcdysiastJun 24, 20151 votes

"Ekko made you mad. Ekko did his job. Ekko was a better player than you."

Because champions can't be broken, especially one that's actually two, whose escape makes him invisible so you aren't even allowed to know the direction he's going, and who has a Fear that can damage for half your health if he builds for it?

Right.

I bet you think Katarina and Riven are balanced, too.

Icestar1186Jun 24, 20152 votes

Honestly? Yep. CC them and delete them.

Troy242621Jun 24, 20152 votes

You compared an ultimate to a short CD passive. Just let that sink in. Shaco is a balanced and actually fairly healthy assassin. His W and R are positioning reliant, and he needs at least SOME preemptive planning before he does what he does.

Compare this to some of the other assassins around here.

The EcdysiastJun 24, 20151 votes

Some of the OTHER assassins don't have a free shield and a clone that to soak up targeted abilities that deals damage and has a 100% AP scaling explosion.

How many assassins you know with THAT?

His W is only slightly position-reliant, as it can still be used during combat and you're forgetting that after the jungle change he's one of the few assassins who can clear the camps without recalling, and as he always has, since the boxes are a priority over the champion for mobs (for SOME reason), he can do it unscathed. His R is not positioning reliant in any way whatsoever. Press R, get clone.

His entire kit is designed for players who need the upmost assistance from the champion to gank without getting caught. Very few champions in the game have a blink, and not one of those that does is also cloaked during it. Even Mordekaiser's ghosts have a visual to prove they aren't something they're not.

As long as they're going to continue to call it an "illusion," there needs to be counterplay to it. As a half-damage dealing PET on an AA champion, it's not an illusion at all.

If you're going to argue that he's a "healthy" assassin, go make threads about how not a single other of the assassins in the entire game has the safety of the ability to summon a bodyblocker at will. Until Evelynn, Elise, Rengar, and Kha'zix have that in ADDITION to their escapes and mob-clear ability like HE does, you have no argument.

This is about Assassin Junglers, not you comparing Shaco to Katarina, Ekko, and LeBlanc like you're clearly pretending he's a mid-laner.

Cenobite AzazielJun 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Some of the OTHER assassins don't have a free shield and a clone that to soak up targeted abilities that deals damage and has a 100% AP scaling explosion.

How many assassins you know with THAT?

His W is only slightly position-reliant, as it can still be used during combat and you're forgetting that after the jungle change he's one of the few assassins who can clear the camps without recalling, and as he always has, since the boxes are a priority over the champion for mobs (for SOME reason), he can do it unscathed. His R is not positioning reliant in any way whatsoever. Press R, get clone.

His entire kit is designed for players who need the upmost assistance from the champion to gank without getting caught. Very few champions in the game have a blink, and not one of those that does is also cloaked during it. Even Mordekaiser's ghosts have a visual to prove they aren't something they're not.

As long as they're going to continue to call it an "illusion," there needs to be counterplay to it. As a half-damage dealing PET on an AA champion, it's not an illusion at all.

If you're going to argue that he's a "healthy" assassin, go make threads about how not a single other of the assassins in the entire game has the safety of the ability to summon a bodyblocker at will. Until Evelynn, Elise, Rengar, and Kha'zix have that in ADDITION to their escapes and mob-clear ability like HE does, you have no argument.

This is about Assassin Junglers, not you comparing Shaco to Katarina, Ekko, and LeBlanc like you're clearly pretending he's a mid-laner.

I thought you were trolling. i even checked your last post. well: Free shield: Ecco has an ult that soaks up damage, blinks him, deals 120%!!!!! damage in a champion that building ap is GOOD an d is more tanky than shaco. Elise had her time with the skill shot blocking spiders, le blanc has THE SAME thing as her passive.

":since the boxes are a priority over the champion for mobs: You are dead wrong. Monster hit whatever is near them, making a good clear as shaco means you are tanking some hits and you have to know WHERE you put the boxes and when get near the monster so it will agro you for one more box hit.

His R is not positioning reliant: If you want to bait someone with the clone, yes it is position related. It is position related if you want to block a skill shot and it is reflex/time related if you wanna avoid damage with it.

"Very few champions in the game have a blink, and not one of those that does is also cloaked during it". : With a high CD. With almost no health and can be exploded . He is the ONLY champion that has HUGE PUFF of smoke that show off in fog of war. IF you are ganked and miss to see it, you deserve to die.

You can click the shaco clone and see if he has the buffs or JUST LOOK AT IT, since we have dragons buff that shows up as a red tingling thing.

Shaco has NO Wave CLEAR. Please, explain what is a WAVE clear to you? His E? His box? OR you really are using R for wave clear?

Shaco has ONE way in. His Q. R isn't a get out of the jail card.

Troy242621Jun 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Some of the OTHER assassins don't have a free shield and a clone that to soak up targeted abilities that deals damage and has a 100% AP scaling explosion. How many assassins you know with THAT?

He has a plethora of weaknesses. No, he isn't like other champions because he is actually very unique in design and playstyle. He's still exceptionally healthy as a design. Champions are different.

{quoted} His W is only slightly position-reliant, as it can still be used during combat and you're forgetting that after the jungle change he's one of the few assassins who can clear the camps without recalling, and as he always has, since the boxes are a priority over the champion for mobs (for SOME reason), he can do it unscathed. His R is not positioning reliant in any way whatsoever. Press R, get clone.

The clone spawns in the same location every time he casts it. If you knew this, you would easily be able to discern the clone if he doesn't use it intelligently.

His entire kit is designed for players who need the upmost assistance from the champion to gank without getting caught. Very few champions in the game have a blink, and not one of those that does is also cloaked during it. Even Mordekaiser's ghosts have a visual to prove they aren't something they're not.

It's almost like his theme is deception, assassinating and surprise attacks. Weird,...In any event, you can see him coming a mile away if you'd just ward deeper than you would against other champions. He's easier to track than, say, Evelynn. Another jungler. You know, the one only detectable by pink wards that she can clearly see, kill and then come back 5 seconds later, that cost more than regular wards and have a much more restrictive limit? Yeah, you don't NEED to use those to track him.

Besides, he's known as one of the most difficult junglers to use properly, hence the running gag "Law of Shaco."

He has the stuff he has because he's a squishy melee range assassin that relies on AAs for his damage.

By the way, I thought you said NOT to compare him to mid laners? You just compared him to Mordekaiser.

{quoted} As long as they're going to continue to call it an "illusion," there needs to be counterplay to it. As a half-damage dealing PET on an AA champion, it's not an illusion at all.

Clone doesn't show buffs, always spawns in the same location relative to the real Shaco, has different stats, takes more damage than the real Shaco would, and finally, he uses no skills. Pro tip, a real Shaco will very rarely just walk up to you and start AAing. They use Q to go in and hit you from behind. Speaking of which, on top of all this counterplay, turn towards him to negate 20% of damage,..

Evidently it is an illusion, because it fooled you enough to think it has no counterplay. Rustled your jimmies pretty damn well.

{quoted} If you're going to argue that he's a "healthy" assassin, go make threads about how not a single other of the assassins in the entire game has the safety of the ability to summon a bodyblocker at will. Until Evelynn, Elise, Rengar, and Kha'zix have that in ADDITION to their escapes and mob-clear ability like HE does, you have no argument.

No jungle assassin has body blockers? Not one? Oh, and mobility? Hmmm,....

Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise

This is about Assassin Junglers, not you comparing Shaco to Katarina, Ekko, and LeBlanc like you're clearly pretending he's a mid-laner.

Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise Evelynn Evelynn Evelynn Evelynn Evelynn Evelynn Evelynn Evelynn Evelynn Evelynn Evelynn

3TWarriorJun 24, 20152 votes

lol, shaco hasn't been touched in years and is only op if insanely fed

Ark Angel HFBJun 25, 20152 votes

You are a clueless...

The clone is easy to tell apart... it moves oddly, takes more damage, deals less damage, and can't be moved into bushes that have enemys in them easily...

By your logic, sweeper should also blowup Mord ghost, lb clone, and Tibbers... along with all of yoricks ghouls.

Have you tried just no being shit at this game?

Troy242621Jun 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Angel HFB,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fMLOHm8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-06-25T22:06:51.752+0000)

You are a clueless...

The clone is easy to tell apart... it moves oddly, takes more damage, deals less damage, and can't be moved into bushes that have enemys in them easily...

By your logic, sweeper should also blowup Mord ghost, lb clone, and Tibbers... along with all of yoricks ghouls.

Have you tried just no being shit at this game?

Not to mention you can ping spam Shaco, and if he ults, the real Shaco will still be pinged, the clone always will appear in the same spot, won't show jungle buffs and won't use skills.