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Stashu. Can you please just start from scratch?

Kowe The Ewok··39 votes·2,325 views

Even with the PBE "buffs" the issue remains. It's also less about her powerlevel. It's about her gameplay. Especially the passive.

Cassiopeia has become so horribly unfun to play. With the PBE changes Cassiopeia feels even more dull to play than on live. Hitting a Q is so unrewarding! Unless you hit an E it does even LESS damage than it does live. Landing a Q (playerskill) is near useless unless it's followed up by your enemy making a mistake (not within the influence of your playerskill). Her W is a JOKE. High Cooldown. Low initial radius. Horrible damage. The damage nerf to her ultimate turned one of the most high risk/high reward skills into trash. And her E has become horribly overloaded.

JUST PLEASE. Your concept went horribly wrong. Don't try to a fix a sinking ship by stuffing the holes with cotton balls. Just get rid of this concept all together. I beg you!

EDIT: On a sidenote. Cassiopeia's popularity is at an all time low. She is the 2nd least popular champion ingame. There are more than 120 champions the community would take rather than her. http://www.lolking.net/champions/ http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/by-global-popularity

27 Comments

Canastus18 votes

Apparently he has decided to neglect any further communication regarding his concept until the cursed thing goes live. Looks like we'll be forced to endure another couple of weeks with an unplayable Cassiopeia once 4.21 hits servers.

We should seriously consider asking CertainlyT to take over, he might be able to make her FUN and viable again. I'd rather let him turn her into some kind of pogo-snake if it means getting rid of this godawful passive and terrible lategame-direction.

LeeDark2 votes

Do you really want a snake that knocks people up because... oh, who cares, maybe she flips her tail or something. It's CertainlyT, it doesn't need to make sense? Do you really want a snake whose poisons have their own subpoisons, because even if they numbers are tiny, having TONS of those tiny numbers flying around on the screen is exciting?

Do you really want a snake whom you never get to play because she gets permabanned until she is finally nerfed to hell?

Because that is what CertainlyT does.

Tendrian7 votes

Do you really want a snake that knocks people up because... oh, who cares, maybe she flips her tail or something. It's CertainlyT, it doesn't need to make sense? Do you really want a snake whose poisons have their own subpoisons, because even if they numbers are tiny, having TONS of those tiny numbers flying around on the screen is exciting?

Do you really want a snake whom you never get to play because she gets permabanned until she is finally nerfed to hell?

Because that is what CertainlyT does.

The sad thing is, all of this is still a massive improvement over anything Stashu did with her in the last couple of months...

LeeDark1 votes

Depends on your point of view. It is a massive improvement in her power compared to Stashu's work. In the end, though, both versions are unplayable. Stashu's version is one nobody wants to play, banned by proxy. CertainlyT's version would be one everyone feels like they have to ban.

If we aren't careful, all six bans in solo queue will just go to champs designed by CertainlyT. Then what happens when he designs a seventh? We have to give Riot time to severely nerf the champs he already made. Give the Cass rework to someone who isn't CertainlyT or Stashu, I say. Both of them seem to be terrible at their jobs.

Canastus6 votes

She wouldn't knock people up, she'd most likely ensnare victims with her tail (while leaving herself chained to her target which is counterplay in itself). Also she'd most likely be capable of jumping around like a cartoon-snake if you consider one of her jokes which clearly shows her ability to do so.

It certainly would make her a lot more interesting to play as and she'd have the option to finish off/lock down opponents more effectively.

LeeDark1 votes

No, it wouldn't make her more interesting to play. Nobody would get to play her because she would be permabanned. Theoretically, you're right, but in practice, she'd see even less play than she does now.

Renaille1 votes

Noxious Blast ACTIVE: Cassiopeia hurls poison at the cursor's location, which strikes after a 0.65 second delay. All enemies within the 75-radius area are poisoned, taking magic damage over 3 seconds and launches Cassiopeia back 450 units.

Petrifying Gaze ACTIVE: After a brief delay, Cassiopeia blasts all enemies in a 80º cone in front of her with her gaze, dealing magic damage to them. Enemies facing her when damaged are knocked up for 2 seconds, while enemies facing away are slowed by 60% for 2 seconds instead. MAGIC DAMAGE: 150 / 250 / 350 (+ 50% Ap) + 10/15/20% of target's max health.

Please no.

Canastus2 votes

That delay on Q would be even worse than what we already have, your chance of ever hitting Noxious Blast would be incredibly low.

Also Petrifying Gaze would need to lose its godawful delay, what use are those damage enhancers if she can't even hit it?

MrBuffington12 votes

I agree, I honestly think it's time to bury the hatchet and start fresh on Cassiopeia. Even if Stashu gets done pulling teeth "buffing" Cassiopeia to the point where she's viable again, I think her entire playerbase is so alienated from her concept at this point that it won't matter. The only people who will play her are people like me who hop on the rework bandwagon, maybe have some fun, then go back to our mains.

The Soulforged5 votes

I agree, I honestly think it's time to bury the hatchet and start fresh on Cassiopeia. Even if Stashu gets done pulling teeth "buffing" Cassiopeia to the point where she's viable again, I think her entire playerbase is so alienated from her concept at this point that it won't matter. The only people who will play her are people like me who hop on the rework bandwagon, maybe have some fun, then go back to our mains.

Might end up like the karma rework. It's viable, but so different from the original you could hardly call it the same champ. Went from cool lategame scaling support with a shield bomb and healing to a poky mage.

MrBuffington1 votes

I mean, I actually like Karma right now, but, as with Cassiopeia, I wasn't a pre-rework Karma player, so I can't really speak to how Cassiopeia/Karma should play

The Soulforged4 votes

I mean, I actually like Karma right now, but, as with Cassiopeia, I wasn't a pre-rework Karma player, so I can't really speak to how Cassiopeia/Karma should play

I mean, I don't hate playing her or anything, but it feels like they deleted a unique champion from the league.

MrBuffington4 votes

I can definitely understand that, relaunches seem to have that intent (which can be good and bad). Cassiopeia on the other hand isn't supposed to be a relaunch

hobomann211 votes

agreed, she was fine before just need a little tune-up not this disgusting paint job that she has now

her passive is a lame still-born POWER WALL(as in your shit until you get the max stacks for it then your slightly less shit) Q is lame,dull and a husk of its prior usefulness W is a painful joke with no punchline E is mordekaiser ult levels of "to much shit going on" + some more shit R wait what? cass has a ult?

Feathermane9 votes

What's done is done. We aren't talking about a computer game here, where you can revert something to a prior state. This is real life, once your snake dies, she's gone.

BigDaddySenpaiii9 votes

At least CertainlyT makes his champions fun to use and playable.

Cass rework was just "lol u got to farm for 30+ mins to match level 2 syndra threat" and "lolz u get to be another adc hyper carry but without all of their tools"

questir8 votes

We're talking about a rework that can go live for years and leave the true Cass players unhappy so I wouldn't mind if he starts again from scratch. Stashu please if you're reading OP you should really consider it, we won't be mad as long as you get rid of that passive and concept about farming for it

Oleandervine8 votes

I want Cassiopeia to be the undisputed mistress of poisons, not Teemo. I find it an incredible insult that Cassiopeia has the weakest poisons in the game while characters like Teemo, Singed, and Twitch have downright lethal poisons, and her entire identity is about poisons. Yet somehow, her poisons are reduced to next-to-worthless while a shot from Teemo can nearly kill you. The focus needs to STOP being pumped into E. It isn't the defining characteristic of her kit. Stop trying to make E happen. Dump the power from E and push it back into Q and W. E is for clean up, not for meat and potatoes. The poison amp would be fine on E; In fact, that would be one of the redeeming features if they tanked the damage. But for the love of gods, give the focus of the poison mage's kit BACK to the poison. If you don't want her to be a lane bully, fix it. Don't gut her, just balance her. Reduce the size of her poisons, have them do less damage to minions, absolutely anything that would mildly curb her without gating and gutting her. Hell, make her Q be a set of projectiles similar to Ashe's Volley so that the number of poisons is limited and blockable by minions. That would fix SO many of her bullying problems and add counterplay as her skill shot would be more important and less capable of simply spreading poison as quickly as AOE effects. I just want her poisons to be something to fear instead of a mild annoyance. As for that passive, get rid of it. Stashu needs to stop clinging to that sinking ship or someone else at Riot needs to step in and take control before this rework continues to spiral beyond repair.

Canastus6 votes

She definitely needs to lose this absolute focus on her E, it makes her entirely unplayable if she's behind. Her lanephase is already among the worst in the entire game and I'm not exaggerating when I'm saying this. All it takes is a roaming support or jungler to dive/gank you along with the enemy midlaner and you can already say goodbye to your hopes of ever carrying the game. She literally has no comeback-potential, period.

It gets only worse if your team refuses to do press that green yes-button thus forcing you to endure up to 15 more minutes of futility just to go 3/11 because she deals NO damage at all, no matter how many stacks you acquire. Her passive is an insult and only serves to rub even more salt into your wound if you're behind since the bonus you get is hardly higher than 30 AP. It's virtually useless until you hit 6 items, I'm not joking.

That's probably the most awful passive I've seen in this game. Heck, even Lissandra's is better at this point. Stashu needs to realize that this atrocious thing is ruining her performance for good. Words like "hatred", "revulsion", "loathing" and "disgust" only scratch the surface of what I feel for this rework.

Hawkefire6 votes

I honestly would love if they just scrap the rework altogether, give her old kit the bugfixes and qol fixes, and then never touch her again unless absolutely necessary.

However, knowing Riot and that they don't ever like backing down on things once they have their foot in the door they will probably continue trying to rework her and will continue failing miserably at it for a good long time.

yellowbricks5 votes

Preach it!

Essorance5 votes

I prefer he leave riot then continue to work on cass at this point.

Tortferngatr3 votes

I'm going to get downvotes for this, but after testing her on PBE...honestly, this feels a little misleading/bandwagon-y.

Landing Q still gives you a movement speed boost you can use to catch up and land the one Twin Fang you need to amplify the damage on someone. One. One. You literally just have to follow up once.

W's early-game damage is weak, yes, but much of its power is still in letting Cassiopeia get her Twin Fang spam going on anyone who gets caught there, although its own damage does technically benefit from the poison amp.

Her ult still has CC potential.

As for the passive...honestly, I don't mind it, even though it could be improved. The only thing I really want for it is mana leach (akin to Essence Reaver) on her poisons.

Kowe The Ewok2 votes

On a sidenote. Cassiopeia's popularity is at an all time low. After Urgot she is the least popular champion ingame. There are more than 120 champions the community would take rather than her. http://www.lolking.net/champions/ http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/by-global-popularity

CollectiveFury1 votes

As a pre-re-work Cassiopeia main, thinking about this as objectively as possible, they are going in the right direction apart from the passive.

Q used to melt people as they ran away. Now if you hit 2 E's it will have almost the same power as before. Actually, .0275 more AP ratio when you consider her fully stacked passive and 2 E's hit. This is OK.

The MS on Q means you get a level 4/5 speed boost that's level-agnostic. That will be good for getting the hell out of dodge or closing the gap with an annoying champ.

Someone proposed adding Grievous Wounds to Miasma which would be cool and would be a much better replacement to the benign and universally-hated 25% CDR.

Even Tenacity is a better level-up than CDR which she doesn't benefit from.

If they replaced the passive without giving her back deadly cadence, the passive could give her extended vision while in a bush. This is more snake-like anyway.

SIayton1 votes

Am I the only one that feels like having 2 AOE poisons on a kit is just.... redundant? I mean I know one is persistent area of effect vs a single time application but, I dunno. Her kit just isn't exciting or interesting. Trying to force her into a late game hyper AP carry status just doesn't work because Veigar exists and he does his stuff from the safety of a huge AOE stun that's actually more reliable than Cassio's ult and on a regular cooldown.

I would be much more in favor of a kit rework than what she has currently.

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