Why you only slightly nerf Jhin every patch. And why its not favoritism.

Skorch·Mar 14, 2017·8 votes·2,365 views

I see claims of Jhin Favoritism and i refute that with he got nerfed twice in a row. NOW onto the main point of the post.

The reason you see things being nerfed that isnt his damage is because all of his stats affect his AD, so nerfs to those stats would only slightly affect his AD. MOST of Jhins identity is his amount of AD, so if you nerf something else it has a large impact.

Thats why you see the slight ult change or nerf to DFT instead of Jhin Directly. Because that hurts Jhin MUCH more than any AD changes.

Also jsyk in the last nerf alone Jhin dropped ~10% playrate and is currently between 51-47% winrate depending on the day and your source.

71 Comments

Dominick DestineMar 14, 20172 votes

LeeSin ?

TyrekGoldenspearMar 14, 20172 votes

I'm afraid I don't see the point of this post.

Care to elaborate?

Dominick DestineMar 14, 20171 votes

I am too draconian to elaborate on such things.

I recently made a YouTube video (rant) about League of Legends and used the word 'Draconian' , I thought of you, no Taric.

TyrekGoldenspearMar 14, 20172 votes

You know this doesn't help anyone without a link right?

Also there better not be any Taric, you take that Taric and keep it with Ariel.

Dominick DestineMar 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You know this doesn't help anyone without a link right?

I was doxxed literally one day ago and forced to take down all my videos, including that one. The video I mentioned was the day before yesterday.

Ironically, Ariel warned me about this and when he was proven right, he refused to say "I told you so" because "That's not worth saying, first it was too easy and thus it is unnecessary to say and second, I didn't say you'd get doxxed I said I didn't want to get doxxed" or something to that extent. He is a very infuriating person, but that is what makes him interesting (again no Taric).

Also there better not be any Taric, you take that Taric and keep it with Ariel.

Huehuehuehuehue.

TyrekGoldenspearMar 15, 20172 votes

...

I think our positions are getting reversed. In the sense that I'm starting to be the sensible one in our little talks while you make immature jokes in an effort to be funny.

Dominick DestineMar 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

...

I think our positions are getting reversed. In the sense that I'm starting to be the sensible one in our little talks while you make immature jokes in an effort to be funny.

Oh please, the implication that one must be serious in order to reflect intelligence is one of the oldest and most commonly dispelled myths. Being the straight-man, or in your case the third-wheel, does not imply greater or lesser intelligence. I objectively find you to not be on the level of Ariel/me.

At this point I would like to go on a tangent and explain; Ariel is dead-pan, which actually works really well with my over-the-top antics and somewhat crude (In the sense that it's obvious) humor. We have a great dynamic and I still think we'd make a fantastic podcast duo but he seems to be against the idea.

TyrekGoldenspearMar 15, 20172 votes

Being the straight-man, or in your case the third-wheel, does not imply greater or lesser intelligence.

Okay.

I objectively find you to not be on the level of Ariel/me.

Pick one. You say being the thrird well doesn't mean I'm an idiot yet you say I'm an idiot compared to you and your unrequited Taric.

Dominick DestineMar 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Pick one. You say being the thrird well doesn't mean I'm an idiot yet you say I'm an idiot compared to you and your unrequited Taric.

You being the third-wheel has nothing to do with your intelligence. I also never said you were an idiot. I simply said that you are not on the level of Ariel/me. This isn't an insult, this is one of the very, VERY few times I am being 100% sincere. You are not an idiot, not even close.... it's the reverse, it's that we are very intelligent people and very few can match us.

That's not bragging , that's simply the way things are. I say for the fourth time in this comment thread; None of this is said with even the slightest insult meant to you.

I get the feeling that Ariel's response you would have been very dismissive.... internally he would think "Well if this person doesn't understand the concept being presented and instead gets offended, it would be a waste of time to continue given that there is literally zero incentive to do so (Success = 0 benefit)", or something to that extent.

Mmmm, I like that.

I like knowing Ariel enough that I can hypothetically use his arguments. It honestly.... increases my cognitive abilities across the board to know him. And I like that I can say these kinds of things without it ever getting weird.... mmm intelligent people are awesome.

TyrekGoldenspearMar 15, 20172 votes

Okay, I understand. Thanks for that.

It's just that in the past you are very condescending, so I don't recognize when you are being sincere in not insulting me nor do I always know how to respond if you are genuinely complimenting me.

Dominick DestineMar 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Okay, I understand. Thanks for that.

That's nice of you to say, but I deserve no thanks. I dislike coming off as a braggart (Except when it comes to Diamond Pride). I try to downplay my high intelligence as much as possible because anyone that claims to have it, tends to not have it. The most intelligent people tend to keep that shit quiet.

It's just that in the past you are very condescending

Only when it comes to ranked (aka Diamond Pride).

In all other aspects, I consider myself very humble.... I know this goes without saying but; Ariel and I have come to know each other reasonably well, if you truly doubt that I am a humble and amicable person, ask him and he will undoubtedly say 'yes'..... however, it really doesn't translate to the forum/message board medium.

I'm actually quite personable and charming.

ModPeriscopeMar 16, 20173 votes

I consider myself very humble

No irony there at all.

Dominick DestineMar 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No irony there at all.

Actually no, there is no irony there.

I consider myself very humble, but as I said, it simply doesn't translate well, or come across in forum/message board format. Naturally the exception to this , as I continually say, is Diamond Pride which of course, is anything but humble.... but aside from that, I am an extremely humble, personable and amicable individual.... again it just doesn't come across here.

ModPeriscopeMar 16, 20173 votes

Nah there's irony. It's not exactly modest to state ~~your~~ one's high level of humility.

ModPeriscopeMar 16, 20174 votes

You've now flaunted how humble you are 3 times.

ModPeriscopeMar 17, 20173 votes

Maybe I should make clear why I think it's ironic you describe yourself as "very humble." Humble means showing a modest or low estimate of one's importance. When you're describing yourself as such (VERY), you're being far from humble.

Also, you brought up a brilliant point about intelligence.

anyone that claims to have it, tends to not have it.

And I feel humility falls into this same category.

Further, you've steadfastly and swiftly defended your comment several times. Hardly humble.

So, there are a good deal of ironic/contradictory things you've offered in defending your humility, but each time you've replied, it's actually added to the irony.

I'm thinking that if you didn't catch this, then fine. Agree to disagree. Good day.

ModPeriscopeMar 19, 20172 votes

Hey, So I've looked over everything that we've talked about, and I feel like something has gotten confused and I'm to blame. I am not attacking your humility, whether your online persona or your real life character. You have said you are and are not humble, and that's fine. I apologize, I did not intend to call into question your humility.

I want to be clear. Calling yourself humble, that's ok. But calling yourself "very" humble, that's what I take issue with. It's an oxymoron. You're using a word that's intended to be modest, then with the added "very" suddenly you're foregoing modesty.

Just...don't go leaving the boards stating you're the most humble person in the world.

Dominick DestineMar 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You know this doesn't help anyone without a link right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw6UxN3pU6M&t=1:40s

At about 1:40.

I mentioned the Draconian System. I thought of you in a non-Taric way.

TyrekGoldenspearMar 19, 20172 votes

It is incredibly jarring to hear your voice.

It was not what I expected.

Dominick DestineMar 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It is incredibly jarring

That's what she said.

As I've said many times, a lot of my character does not come across through this medium. A LOT. Ask Ariel.

TyrekGoldenspearMar 19, 20172 votes

Can't. As I recall he mentioned thinking of me as... weird? Annoying? A combination?

So nah, I won't bother.

RexSaurMar 14, 20172 votes

Hes still broken, so nothing changed.

And 40%+ pick rate + 50% win rate doesnt exactly mean balanced either.

TyrekGoldenspearMar 14, 20178 votes

40%+ pick rate + 50% win rate doesnt exactly mean balanced either.

40%+ pick rate

http://img02.deviantart.net/2f4e/i/2016/038/f/7/jhin_meme_by_mikouchan-d9qyb6a.png

CyberBaltMar 14, 20172 votes

Nerfing an entire keystone soley to nerf a champion is kind of stupid IMO.

(Neutral on the whole Jhin debate thing though.)

SkorchMar 14, 20172 votes

I dont know, they nerfed AD scaling on it, and to be fair like 3 AD champs picked it so...

Malix FarwinMar 14, 20172 votes

you can call it circlejerk, you can call people idiots but the fact of the matter is at his current strength people just dont like him. Yes i dont like Jhin, yes i would be happy if he got real nerfs but they could literally revert all the nerfs and buff him for all i care because i just ban him.

Master VemiraMar 16, 20172 votes

Jhin should have been a jungle/ mid/ top, marksmen, but cheese %%%s ruined it, ar pen jungle jhin on release was legit, level 2 gank with 2 shots, kill secured, everytime

AhristocatsMar 14, 20171 votes

DFT was nerfed because it was broken

SkorchMar 14, 20171 votes

Well the AD scalings WERE insane. However is the patchnotes, the text part stated:

(The Virtuoso doesn't show hime by name, but don't let that fool you! Our DFT power-down hits him the hardest.)

AhristocatsMar 14, 20172 votes

what they said is that jhin is going to be nerfed the most because he could apply single target damage of DFT

but DFT was stil too strong on mf and varus

SkorchMar 14, 20171 votes

Youre right it was, as they also said in the portion dedicated to DFT

LordGeovanniMar 17, 20171 votes

jhin already gets extra ad from attack speed because he doesnt attack any faster when he buys it (but he attacks plenty fast in the first place for some one who was supposed to be gated by low attack speed) but why does he get ad from crit chance but still gets to use the crit chance on his attacks that arent his 4th shot.

SkorchMar 19, 20172 votes

He does NOT attack fast at all. Early game it might be pretty similar to other ADCs, but late game most people with high life steal and attack speed is very VERY hard to fight if they get on you. (>.> XinZhao )

And the reason he gets AD from Crit Chance is most likely for getting slightly higher benefits for building Crit, Attack Speed items as the Attackspeed bonus JUST wasnt enough.

LordGeovanniMar 20, 20171 votes

Jhin doesnt attack fast he attacks fast for how much damage he does and faster than most fighters when most fighters even without attack speed steriods in their kits are supposed to be auto attack based and because of this meta where you have to build hp items you cant really build any attack speed to go with the tiny bit of ad you get from item like item 3748 and item 3071 .

SkorchMar 20, 20172 votes

.625 at first level scaling up to ~0.8-0.9. Is not fast, while YES he does a lot of damage, building attack speed is UNAVAILABLE to him, unlike these other champions. (Which by the way i have no idea these "No attackspeed steroids attack speed fighters" you are talking about are) AND ON TOP OF THAT, he has a reload mechanic. Out of ALL the things to complain about Jhin on Attack Speed SHOULDNT be one of them.

LordGeovanniMar 20, 20171 votes

Jhin building attack speed is not 'unavaliable' to him because what ever he loses by not being able to benifit from attack speed in the traditional way he more than makes up for it when it scales into damage (in poke battles where attack speed is useless you just get one attack then back off attack speeds power is supposed to be lost but not for jhin its all right there in the form of raw ad).Jhin doesnt have too much attack speed he has too much attack speed for how much damage he does It should go down to 1.2 or something attack speed at level 18. Another way of saying the exact same thing is that he does too much raw damage for how much attack speed he has. jhin aa goes up to something like 1.6 attack speed not 0.9 I can understand why jhin gets ad from attack speed (though idk why he gets movement speed off the same fuking thing double dipping in the power) but jhins 1st-3rd shots benefit from crit chance so why does he get extra ad from crit chance too.

SkorchMar 20, 20172 votes

Fine ill do the math for you, 0.625 +3% per level = 0.96. There you go, he has .96 attack speed at 18, i dont know why you thought it went to something insane like 1.6.

And he gets these bonuses PURELY because of low attack speed. Riot is basically saying HIS ATTACKS HURT, so find away around his SLOW attack speed. While yes he gets added bonuses onto his AD, The Crit AD is a small amount that is just supposed to bolster it by a small amount to slightly help. And his MS bonus is to help with his SEVERE lack of mobility.

LordGeovanniMar 20, 20171 votes

The thing is he doesnt suffer from haveing slow attack speed. His slow attack speed just means that he gets to have front loaded damage and an execute on the back end. Jhin is basically a kill me before i kill you but while it says that i suffer from slow attack speed they overcompensated me with raw damage. Jhins' auto attacks are basically Draven axes with out needing to catch it but takes just as long as going to catch it and with no mana cost and a short cooldown after the 4th attack during which you cast your other spells which are over compensated with utility while having good damage because while they do scale poorly no body can reach the levels of ad jhin gets so it balances out to what a high damage scaling spell would be on a normal person.

SkorchMar 20, 20173 votes

AH it all makes sense now, you are one of those people that think absolutely everything in a kit is overcompensated and its a waste of time discussing actual stats with you.

LordGeovanniMar 21, 20171 votes

I think that because it is you cant discuss stats because any time jhin goes for a duel he comes out on top because he can take 70% of your hp in 1 strike if you are squishy and run away at mach 3 until time for his next attack leaveing no window to retaliate and if you have defenses he takes away 45% of your hp in one strike most of the time. Duels are supposed to be where most ranged carries and assassins lose. You can call me a person who its a waste of time discussing things with as long as you understand that you are one of those people who just say things form your point of view and think that because you believe it other must believe it. I accept that jhins attack speed is not what i say it was but with the scaling he gets from everything in his kit he doesnt need scaleing attack speed in the first place.

SkorchMar 21, 20172 votes

No actually i am a big fan of debate. But you are hyper exagerrating everything Jhin is, OP or not. I repetitvely tell you what his stats are, what he does. And im met with "No its like 2 or 3 times that." When its just incorrect. You cant argue or debate someone who thinks the situation is 10times worse than it is.

LordGeovanniMar 22, 20171 votes

Actually the only thing either of us pulled a number on was attack speed which i admit i dont know the exact number but am estimating from how it feels to play as and against him in game. Im saying what ever his attack speed is its too much and many people cant even build attack speed but this is his 'weakness'. He doesnt scale with attack speed so he gets ad for it even if its alittle much that makes sense. Jhin normally benifits from crit chance so why does he get also gets from ad from it that makes no sense. Jhin is dominateing the game but you are claiming he is balanced. I dont like to refrence stat site numbers because stats hardly tells the whole story of a game and are influenced by peoples playing throwing and other things that happen in game.

SkorchMar 22, 20171 votes

Stat sites: Jhin 18% Playrate, 47% Winrate, Jhin has largely fallen from where he was 2 patches ago due to Lucian, Kog'Maw and apparently Caitlyn being on the rise.

BUT since you dont want stat sites how about this. I personally dont think Jhins Damage matter much at all because going into game i understand one thing: He hurts like a motherfucker. Once i acknowledge that i acknowledge his weakness: Due to his low as shit attackspeed and low mobility. Jump on him, dont let him reload, just kill him as fast as possible.

I think he is a perfectly balanced champions because what he has in damage he majorly lacks in many MANY other aspects. Once you realize he is full glass cannon ALWAYS he becomes always easier to deal with.

I acknowledge no matter what he'll kill me in a few shots, hes meant to. I play around that goddamn fact to kill him.

Its not OP its his strength, while sometimes it might be too high or low CURRENTLY his damage is all he offers so i dont think its a problem as it has very VERY clear counterplay.

LordGeovanniMar 22, 20171 votes

Low attack speed attacking just as fast as the next guy but with 300% more damage Not as fast as other adcs but still with 170% more damage.

low mobility except he gets shit ton of movement speed when he crits like i said he still scales with crits on his 1st-3rd shots and even with his good damage he negates other peoples mobility with most of his kit being cc. i cant accept that as a fighter i get 3shot from jhin without his 4th shot justbecause we past the 25minute mark and jhin more often than not has help dealing damage so he more often 2 shots with his help being around. with a full tank im just as likely to die from jhins 4 shots as i am to only have 20% hp left after he does these shots. my problem with jhin is that he kills you in the the time it takes to walk to him but he also has shit to stop you from getting to him and get his ass out. your solution to deal with jhin is hope that you are a fed assassin and he is completely alone 100% of the time because you dont seem to be factoring in all the cc and mobility he has to go with his damage or the general position of an adc in any fight ever.

And what you keep dodging is what i am saying not that his damage is op even though it is but that it is op because he has that much damage in addition to everything else he has and notice we only talked about how he shit on people with his auto attacks and passive we didnt touch on his spells at all how much utility he has and their damage arent anything to laugh at either.

SkorchMar 22, 20171 votes

You have repetitvely said every single post that "Jhin gets AD from Crit WTH" Which in the end doesnt matter, thats EXACTLY what you are saying.

And you wanna touch on his abilities? Sure.

Q: Just another damage steroid or farming tool, if it doesnt kill anyone in a teamfight it wont do much damage at all.

W: Actually does more damage than you think, but is a long cooldown thin skillshot 1 champion root, not enough to escape by himself.

E: Also does damage but unless he Ws you in several of them wont do too much. Is mainly a vision tool.

R: Strong slow and execution tool, mainly used to finish people off, or slow them for your team. HOWEVER if you slow them for your team you yourself will take a bit to get into the teamfight

The movespeed from his passive Isnt that much as ive said several times. Its a slight kiting and positioning tool to help with his relatively slow base movespeed. And in a fight ANYONE with any movement abilites will be able to catch up to him unless he built boots and like 3 AS items.

LordGeovanniMar 22, 20171 votes

You have repetitvely said every single post that "Jhin gets AD from Crit WTH" Which in the end doesnt matter, thats EXACTLY what you are saying.

because they have no fuking reason to give him a crit ad scaleing and only 40 damage off of w whileing hitting multiple targets

And you wanna touch on his abilities? Sure.

Q: Just another damage steroid or farming tool, if it doesnt kill anyone in a teamfight it wont do much damage at all.

a damage tool yes and turns into a nuke if you kill anything with it why say a damage tool as if its just damage that seems to be riots stance on damage too last i checked it was damage that kills things not cc which they are so fond of nerfing on the champions they want to be cc bots

W: Actually does more damage than you think, but is a long cooldown thin skillshot 1 champion root, not enough to escape by himself.

Does alot of damage and provides jhin with a burst of speed while rooting the enemy.

E: Also does damage but unless he Ws you in several of them wont do too much. Is mainly a vision tool.

just 1s a nuke in an area and makes you stop what you are doing to get out of it and has a heavy slow can be stacked for some reason while riot is making every other trap that you used to be able to stack not be able to. and is comboed with his high damage w

R: Strong slow and execution tool, mainly used to finish people off, or slow them for your team. HOWEVER if you slow them for your team you yourself will take a bit to get into the teamfight

Its not to finish people off or slow them its to slow them and finish them off useing it for one does not suddenly make the other disappear.

The movespeed from his passive Isnt that much as ive said several times. Its a slight kiting and positioning tool to help with his relatively slow base movespeed. And in a fight ANYONE with any movement abilites will be able to catch up to him unless he built boots and like 3 AS items.

slight kiteing my ass what is reletively low base movement speed. every time anybody cant explain what something and know that it isnt true they say releitively low base movement speed when you only have 5 less than average movement speed. jhin has high damage combo from super far away and safe but your only solution for jhin is to some how reach to jhin and kill him before him or anyone around him can react when his ranged autos are sustained nukes and a nuke exicute at the end.

NiyumiMar 17, 20171 votes

No, the reason Riot won't nerf him is because he's making money. Same with Riven, same with Lee, same with Ahri, same with Fucksuo, same with all of them.