I actually can't handle the titanic hydra bug. I really want to build the item. But I can't.

Jesus is Savior··41 votes·12,077 views

Note to mods: I'm putting this in gameplay instead of "bug reports" because the item has been bugged since release. So it is presumably never getting fixed, and is "part of the game" now. (And it also has a workaround, so some people run around screaming "it's not bugged, ur just bad" when it is...)

What is the bug? The attack that you make after you use the on-hit active basically reverts to your base attack speed. But it has a workaround: click spamming. If you click after you use it, you will continue attacking at your normal attack speed. But this is REALLY hard from a mechanics perspective at 2.5+ attack speed. No matter how fast you click, you're still not going to attack as fast as you normally would.

And it's frustrating. I have this really great item I want to buy. And the bug has a workaround. But I just can't... Handle it. Every time someone escapes with 10 hp. If I had just clicked a fraction of a second faster and got in that one last auto-attack... It's so annoying.

Context (the bug in more detail - you can test this in practice with like 5 nashors tooth for the attack speed or something):

I'm just going to describe it as if you primed your autoattack before engaging (not using it as a reset). It happens when you use it as a reset too.

Expected behavior: You click the item to prime your attack, right click the target dummy once, and should attack at 2.5 attack speed.

Actual result (no clicking): You click the item to prime your attack, right click the target dummy once, your primed attack hits fast at 2.5 attack speed, and then your 2nd attack is super slow at around your base attack speed, and then after this super slow attack ends your 3rd attack and onward will continue attacking at 2.5 attack speed.

Actual result (with clicking): You click the item to prime your attack, right click the target dummy once, your primed attack hits fast at 2.5 attack speed. After this attack ends, you click the dummy again to get rid of the delay (usually by spam clicking, but one click will work if you time it right), and your 2nd attack will hit at slightly less than 2.5 attack speed (depending on your timing and possibly your ping). Your 3rd attack and onward will hit at 2.5 attack speed.

I just wanna like... You know... Buy items and use them and have fun. Not have to worry about using workarounds to get around bugs. And then get yelled at on Reddit and told "it's not a bug, you're just bad, you're supposed to click spam you scrub" whenever I bring up my frustrations.

13 Comments

AquariusGine7 votes

this 10x

DW Diana3 votes

Didn't know about it but tbh that's just lazy programming :S

LetMeCarry19832 votes

Unless you write code for a living, sometimes with deadlines or schedules, don't make comments like this. There is no way to write any but the simplest program without bugs. In fact, the stability of the game engine, it's client and it's networking code is nothing short of astonishing when you consider the game is constantly being updated. Putting the state of the game itself aside, balance and and quality of gameplay and all that, from a purely technical viewpoint, Riot has done an exemplary job.

I'm particularly impressed with their networking code. It's among the most stable I've ever seen in any software, even outside of gaming. Want a good example of poor networking code? Try disconnecting from a HoTS match and see how long it would take to get back in. League reconnects in seconds, HoTS will reconnect by the time the match in over and I'm not being hyperbolic.

I could go on and on with a long list of technical things that Riot does way better than equivalents elsewhere.

IcyPepper2 votes

Tried programming for awhile just for fun. Found out how infuriating it is to bug test (and how euphoric it feels when the program finally works as intended).

So yeah, totally agree. It'd be one thing to hold Riot accountable for the length of time a bug goes unfixed, but to call the existence of bugs due to laziness is just ignorant of the practice.

LetMeCarry19832 votes

I've been programming all my life. If you ask me what I was put on this Earth for, it would probably be that. I've never been as good at anything as I am with writing code. Not saying I'm a great or revolutionary programmer but I have a lot of experience in the field and I've done a lot of things I never thought I would be able to.

Anyways, as you say, it's fair to complain about the length of time it takes to fix a bug. But to call them lazy is just beyond insulting and short sighted. Whenever I look at League through the eyes of a programmer, I'm always amazed at what Riot has done, especially when compared to others.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

I've been programming all my life. If you ask me what I was put on this Earth for, it would probably be that. I've never been as good at anything as I am with writing code. Not saying I'm a great or revolutionary programmer but I have a lot of experience in the field and I've done a lot of things I never thought I would be able to.

Anyways, as you say, it's fair to complain about the length of time it takes to fix a bug. But to call them lazy is just beyond insulting and short sighted. Whenever I look at League through the eyes of a programmer, I'm always amazed at what Riot has done, especially when compared to others.

I would never go so far as to belittle what their programmers can and do achieve. However in my experience if you have a obvious place or interaction in a program that is failing to operate as you would like, and it is the SAME interaction you have written for countless other items that do not exhibit the same failing, I would look at this as likely a small difference in code which would require a copy/paste with some minor alterations to the desired item, rather than a full bug fix project.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

Unless you write code for a living, sometimes with deadlines or schedules, don't make comments like this. There is no way to write any but the simplest program without bugs. In fact, the stability of the game engine, it's client and it's networking code is nothing short of astonishing when you consider the game is constantly being updated. Putting the state of the game itself aside, balance and and quality of gameplay and all that, from a purely technical viewpoint, Riot has done an exemplary job.

I'm particularly impressed with their networking code. It's among the most stable I've ever seen in any software, even outside of gaming. Want a good example of poor networking code? Try disconnecting from a HoTS match and see how long it would take to get back in. League reconnects in seconds, HoTS will reconnect by the time the match in over and I'm not being hyperbolic.

I could go on and on with a long list of technical things that Riot does way better than equivalents elsewhere.

Bugs happen, this is something everyone knows. What is important is to fix bugs. While I only know a few programming languages that are mainly designed for web development, I know that when I write a code that doesn't work in the way it is meant to it is normally due to a small mistake on my part. This bug for example is clearly an issue with the interaction between an auto attack and the activation of the item, and therefore should be relatively easy to identify and resolve.

The "Lazy programming" I was describing was their failure to correct what is likely just a few lines of code for a long period of time. In short they didn't do a very small amount to resolve a problem and left it as it was: lazy. It is a small bug, doesn't require much to put right, and while it is beyond my meager talents (I only know 5 coding languages and two of those aren't for programming), it's the equivalent of leaving the margins out of sync between browsers on your css file and hoping no one notices, rather then adding a small line of code at the top of the stylesheet to sync everything to 0.

Edit: Note, I do NOT work as a computer programmer, and took up web development as a side business/hobby. I actually work as the head of customer services for a multi-million pound company. Knowingly ignoring a problem/customer complaint, and not fixing it isn't exactly what I consider good customer service, though this might be different in America...

LetMeCarry19831 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ZNk309m,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2018-05-14T17:34:37.843+0000)

The "Lazy programming" I was describing was their failure to correct what is likely just a few lines of code for a long period of time. In short they didn't do a very small amount to resolve a problem and left it as it was: lazy. It is a small bug, doesn't require much to put right

It's certainly fair to complain about this. But I wouldn't attribute it to laziness or a lack of interest. Ever notice how many bugfixes are in each patch every two weeks? Think about how many were fixed in the last 10 patches. That is a metric fucktonne of bugs. No doubt there are going to be a dozen or so in the next one for 8.10. This bug is only one in an ocean of bugs yet to be fixed. They cannot fix every single bug in one patch or even several. Now if the bug is really that infuriating, what we can do is complain louder so they can prioritize it higher. But we shouldn't make the mistake of ever thinking the reason it isn't being addressed is because they don't care or are lazy. It's just one of several bugs of similar severity they just haven't gotten around to yet.

Also, there is the complexity of the engine to consider. Now you as a programmer must have experienced this at some point in your career: A client reports a bug, it looks simple but when you dive into the code to fix this minor bug, you realized that this bug is emergent behavior of how many complicated subsystems interact and any attempt at a simple fix will break a dozen other things. You need to roll up your sleeves and shake things up a bit to make sure you do it right. However, you also have a list of 20 other bugs and 17 of them are easy fixes. In this scenario, most of us would deal with the 17 easy ones and leave the 4 hard ones for later. It's just more economical and it would satisfy more people. Fixing those 17 bugs would make more people happy rather than making everyone wait while you deal with the more difficult ones first to please a handful of people.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

It's certainly fair to complain about this. But I wouldn't attribute it to laziness or a lack of interest. Ever notice how many bugfixes are in each patch every two weeks? Think about how many were fixed in the last 10 patches. That is a metric fucktonne of bugs. No doubt there are going to be a dozen or so in the next one for 8.10. This bug is only one in an ocean of bugs yet to be fixed. They cannot fix every single bug in one patch or even several. Now if the bug is really that infuriating, what we can do is complain louder so they can prioritize it higher. But we shouldn't make the mistake of ever thinking the reason it isn't being addressed is because they don't care or are lazy. It's just one of several bugs of similar severity they just haven't gotten around to yet.

Love the metric of "fuktonne." I would normally agree, but as you say they fix a LOT of bugs that impact the game, many of which only a few people have noticed, let alone reported. If this has been a problem for so long, and would be very simple to duplicate the effect of ravenous hydra (which i KNOW doesn't work the same way) for titanic, then the only real reason for the lack of a fix on it is laziness. Don't get me wrong, if this is the first time they've heard about it that's not them being lazy, but if it's been that way since release AND people have mentioned it and it's still not been fixed then it is either a deliberate act (which good customer service would indicate you communicate to your customers) OR simply just been ignoring it and hoping no one would notice (pretty damn lazy AND poor customer service)/

Also, there is the complexity of the engine to consider. Now you as a programmer must have experienced this at some point in your career: A client reports a bug, it looks simple but when you dive into the code to fix this minor bug, you realized that this bug is emergent behavior of how many complicated subsystems interact and any attempt at a simple fix will break a dozen other things. You need to roll up your sleeves and shake things up a bit to make sure you do it right. However, you also have a list of 20 other bugs and 17 of them are easy fixes. In this scenario, most of us would deal with the 17 easy ones and leave the 4 hard ones for later. It's just more economical and it would satisfy more people. Fixing those 17 bugs would make more people happy rather than making everyone wait while you deal with the more difficult ones first to please a handful of people.

Yes absolutely, and there is also the question of work priority (I.E You work for a super market, something goes terribly wrong and we have 500 complaints to resolve for one superstore, you'd prioritise those that are most urgent like "your staff member swore at my son" over the smaller things like "a trolley wheel being wonky" (Note this has NEVER happened to me and I do not work for a supermarket. It is just an example! >.<). However, if I created a program and put it on one webpage, and then put the exact same program on another, and the first one worked but the second one didn't, I'd know the somewhere along the way I'd coded the program INTO the second one was differently to the first. In the same way it is not what they have coded Titanic Hydra to DO that is an issue, it is how it INTERACTS with the champions AA speed. Knowing that this does not happen with Ravenous Hydra, which should use the exact same interaction, I'd compare their coding for this and find the flaw very simply. It would not require a huge bug fix and shouldn't create any more bugs then it did on ravenous hydra (though we all know this isn't ALWAYS the case as logic isn't always absolute! :P) And yes this may not be a priority, much like the trolley wheel being wonky, you'd expect them to do SOMETHING about it over the period the item has been out (unless as stated before; i was a deliberate difference in item interaction).

LetMeCarry19831 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ZNk309m,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-14T18:33:31.017+0000)

Love the metric of "fuktonne."

lol....It's effective at communicating to someone that there is or was a whole lot of something.

Anyways, you make fair points but I cannot accept that Riot is being lazy about it. All the technical stuff aside, Riot is extremely consistent at responding to game breaking problems. I just have too much to compare Riot too. I've played a lot of different games and used a lot of different software and I can say that Riot in comparison is far better at customer service than 90% of other software producing shops, games or otherwise. How many other shops have entire blogs and YouTube videos dedicated to letting it's customers know what the devs are up to.

The point you make about the two hydras being similar is certainly fair but we cannot be 100% certain. For all we know, they are two completely different pieces of code. Like red wine and red soda. Sure they look the same but the chemical makeups are vastly different.

Maybe you're right and it really is a simple copy and paste job. We don't know. But I'm sure there is a good reason for Riot's tardiness. Riot has done too many things right(outside of the season 8 that is :D) for me to dismiss this one oversight as a lack of interest, laziness or ambivalence.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

lol....It's effective at communicating to someone that there is or was a whole lot of something.

Anyways, you make fair points but I cannot accept that Riot is being lazy about it. All the technical stuff aside, Riot is extremely consistent at responding to game breaking problems.

Actually they have a tendency to do towards the "We'll fix it when/if it becomes a problem in a few months" attitude. The only examples i can see where they are in any way pro-active in this regards is with the balancing of champions, which normally results in over-buffing or over-nerfing.

I just have too much to compare Riot too. I've played a lot of different games and used a lot of different software and I can say that Riot in comparison is far better at customer service than 90% of other software producing shops, games or otherwise. How many other shops have entire blogs and YouTube videos dedicated to letting it's customers know what the devs are up to.

Almost every company with a live online game has this. A lot of them also hold regular conversations with their customer, answering questions that have been asked, not those they WISH had been asked. This isn't me hating on Riot, or on League, I love the game and respect Riot for what they have achieved with it, but as far as customer service goes? No, this is the one area I can say from both personal AND professional experience Riot are really failing at. Not in a "that's not very good customer service" way but in the "If my company was as bad at customer service as these guys I'd be fired" kind of way. Customer service is about having a point of contact that has a TWO way conversation with your customers, in which you LISTEN to their concerns and RESPOND. Riot fail on all three of these. They have no point of direct contact, which means they are rarely listening, and I have yet to see anyone at riot respond to a question that they didn't already want to answer. I'm not someone who believes the customer is always right, in fact the are normally wrong, but customer service isn't about giving the customer exactly what they want, its about giving clarity as to WHY things are that way (educating), empathizing with the customer, and enabling them to feel like they have been understood. Riot currently just ignore anything they don't want to talk about/heard.

The point you make about the two hydras being similar is certainly fair but we cannot be 100% certain. For all we know, they are two completely different pieces of code. Like red wine and red soda. Sure they look the same but the chemical makeups are vastly different.

This is true, but then the question would be COULD they be the same? As you'll know there are several ways to do the same job, especially when it comes to programming.

Maybe you're right and it really is a simple copy and paste job. We don't know. But I'm sure there is a good reason for Riot's tardiness. Riot has done too many things right(outside of the season 8 that is :D) for me to dismiss this one oversight as a lack of interest, laziness or ambivalence.

Again, basic customer service would be to show you have listened to this, clarify if this was intended or a bug that they need to look into, empathise with the people who discovered it (and apologise if necessary), thereby enabling them to understand why things are the way they are and have a good idea as to when/if it is going to change. Not do nothing, say nothing and hope the problem isn't noticed enough to matter.

Ok sure but why3 votes

There's another bug that if you use the hydra active quickly after an auto attack, the active will shoot out on its own without a followup attack reset, making you do less damage overall

junglerboy161 votes

Huh, never knew about this... I always just used it paired with other auto resets so I guess I never saw it cuz I'd just AA > Titanic > AA reset

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