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Please give Shen a bit more waveclear or some soft CC (Here's why)

ExecutorDill··2 votes·768 views

> It's nasty cycle: By not giving Shen more waveclear, he is forced to buy it item 3068. By buying it shen is submitting lane dominance and making a compromise rather picking up an item that would better compliment his trading pattern and in turn allow him to push better (even if he doean't kill the enemy but just makes them back). After buying Sunfire he has a bit of AoE (which can help but also mess up the farm of even lcs players) so he can push lanes a little better but Sunfire needs really long extend battles to really have an impact... in the lanning phase it just FarmSaga helper. I rather take increased single target damage over all AoE damage anyways. I am not say sunfire is a bad item, I just think it'd be way better on champs who already have AoE like

As importantant resistance is... Shen does not scale with them (which makes him no tankier than a Darius building them) so I make it my duty to instead pick up in my 2nd and third items. For my first I try to compliment Shen's dps attributes. item 3022 or item 3074

11 Comments

Kouga3 votes

{quoted}

By not giving Shen more waveclear, he is forced to buy item 3068

"Forced" to buy an awesome Armor/HP item... that, if you're against an AD top (most of the time) is probably the best item to rush first...

"Forced"

By buying it shen is submitting lane dominance and making a compromise rather picking up an item that would better compliment his trading pattern

What part of dealing persistent AoE damage, on a Melee Champ who can taunt and hold an enemy in place, is a bad trading pattern?

After buying Sunfire he has a bit of AoE (which can help but also mess up the farm of even lcs players)

I'm just an average player and literally have no problem last hitting with a Sunfire Shen.. between his Q & Passive-AA its pretty damn easy.

so he can push lanes a little better but Sunfire needs really long extend battles to really have an impact

Good thing he's a tank that can survive long extended battles...

... in the lanning phase it just FarmSaga helper. I rather take increased single target damage over all AoE damage anyways. I am not say sunfire is a bad item, I just think it'd be way better on champs who already have AoE like

You're a tank, why are you focusing on single target damage?

As importantant resistance is... Shen does not scale with them

..........I give up.

ExecutorDill1 votes

{quoted}

"Forced" to buy an awesome Armor/HP item... that, if you're against an AD top (most of the time) is probably the best item to rush first...

"Forced"

What part of dealing persistent AoE damage, on a Melee Champ who can taunt and hold an enemy in place, is a bad trading pattern?

I'm just an average player and literally have no problem last hitting with a Sunfire Shen.. between his Q & Passive-AA its pretty damn easy.

Good thing he's a tank that can survive long extended battles...

You're a tank, why are you focusing on single target damage?

..........I give up.

    1. The best item to rush first would be item 3143.

  1. Shadow dash is most viable to use for (securing kills, disengaging, peeling and chasing) Unless the enemy is critically low (and shen has poor kill potential) taunting them for an additional 1.5 secs of damage throughoit abilities and sunfire could leave you prone to ganks. No argument here though

  2. item 3074 is better, just pick armor later shen gains 4 per lvl plus rune and masteries... If you calculate your self +45 armor does not change much.

  3. Great long extended battles to do what? 43 magic damage (at lvl 18) to nearby targets he can't catch after shadow has finish. I rather delete 1 - 2 targets with the dps spike and constant slow of item 3022 than let enemies run behind tower or reach reinforcememts. scenario: at lvl 12 Sunfire deals 37 magic damage per sec, after a 10 sec battle it did 370 magic damage to all nearby enemies (not calculating basic attacks and abilitu damage because most are single target plus shen is not the best chaser when SD is on cooldown).... Big wuff, item 3022 dealt 300 Bonus AD on autos and 140 bonus magic damage on ki strike (not calculating his base ad and ability damages because having a constant slow is guaranteed damage).

  4. What dafuq? Do you know how many tanks have single target damage? Its a tank's job to lock down enemies (one by one) for his damage dealers. I'm not saying AoE is bad but he is currently the only tank that has a wavecleae problem (hence my title) because of his ultimate being to strong witj wave clear. So why patch up your weaknesses when you can empasize your strengths. Shen already has and AoE taunt (which is superb) just imagine what would happen if shen was able to take like 30% of their health within that 1.5 sec window.... He would intimidate his enemies and they would run (they probably could still out trade yoi but don't know it) especially if your team is behind you, but they would thanks to item 3022.

  5. Let me clarify on my last point. Shen only gets defenses from AP (excluding heal because its sustain not negation) but buying AP to get his W shield to a favourable strength would be sacrificing too much because shen has no resistant amplyfiers and building straight health would leave him squishy... So he has to get resistances because he cannot tank without them (that scale indirectly with his shield increasing the shield effective health slightly).

dEAdbUs2 votes

Shen will be reworked this year. So I think Riots already done something with him.

Reynard the ƒox1 votes

What if basic attacks slowed and/or had an AoE component while the shield was active. The shield doesn't stay up very long in PvP combat anyway.

LilxPaprika1 votes

idea for soft cc: The speed by which shen dashes send a ripple along the edges of his taunt. This ripple effect slows enemies nearby Shen and deals 50% dmg and refunds half energy per champion hit. so narrow portion of dash taunts while edge slows. wouldn't be much larger width but would help especially for times when you miss by just a hair. since his taunt is tough to land.

ExecutorDill1 votes

{quoted}

idea for soft cc: The speed by which shen dashes send a ripple along the edges of his taunt. This ripple effect slows enemies nearby Shen and deals 50% dmg and refunds half energy per champion hit. so narrow portion of dash taunts while edge slows. wouldn't be much larger width but would help especially for times when you miss by just a hair. since his taunt is tough to land.

Booooring!

5D Paragon1 votes

Shen is already strong enough honestly. [He is my main] I barely lose lane with him -- His taunt is incredibly easy to hit and secures ganks/flashes like no tomorrow -- he doesn't need a wave clear or hard CC. If you were to give him waveclear he'd be too powerful. After all, his job is to SPLIT PUSH [which wave clear would greatly benefit] then ultimate into the fights. We do not need him being able to Sivir clear a wave while having the ability to join fights anywhere he pleases.

He is perfectly fine where he is. Shen may not have waveclear, but he is one of the easiest champions to farm with in every area in the lane during the laning phase. Under tower, over extended [and being able to escape ganks easily], you name it. With his Q and passive, you shouldn't have any problems farming. He doesn't need soft CC either, because his Taunt is already pretty amazing as it is. ESPECIALLY since the CD on it is ridiculously low when itemizing CDR. I believe I built only 27.5 or 30% CDR on him and his Taunt was 6 second cd.

ExecutorDill1 votes

{quoted}

Shen is already strong enough honestly. [He is my main] I barely lose lane with him -- His taunt is incredibly easy to hit and secures ganks/flashes like no tomorrow -- he doesn't need a wave clear or hard CC. If you were to give him waveclear he'd be too powerful. After all, his job is to SPLIT PUSH [which wave clear would greatly benefit] then ultimate into the fights. We do not need him being able to Sivir clear a wave while having the ability to join fights anywhere he pleases.

He is perfectly fine where he is. Shen may not have waveclear, but he is one of the easiest champions to farm with in every area in the lane during the laning phase. Under tower, over extended [and being able to escape ganks easily], you name it. With his Q and passive, you shouldn't have any problems farming. He doesn't need soft CC either, because his Taunt is already pretty amazing as it is. ESPECIALLY since the CD on it is ridiculously low when itemizing CDR. I believe I built only 27.5 or 30% CDR on him and his Taunt was 6 second cd.

If he was already strong they wouldn't buff him then tell us he is getting reworked. Honestly tho... He has nothing but ap scalings that he cant but to much of, why? Because he sacrifices getting strong def items to tank, why? Because he cant tank without def items, why? Because his defensive ability is crummy, scales with a damage stat and he has no passive tankiness. Only susatin thing good about him is his Vorpal Blade heal bit thay might get gutted to accomodate the new Q and W play pattern.

Durzaka1 votes

He is being reworked because he has a thematic problem, not because he has a balance problem.

ExecutorDill1 votes

{quoted}

He is being reworked because he has a thematic problem, not because he has a balance problem.

Its true a tanky, supportibe ninja is not something thay gets of the chest easy. But why do you think riot give hime all those buffs over the course of 20q4 to 2015? Because he needed the help and guess what... In a rioter patch the dicussed throwing buffs at cetain champs until they already to rework them. Meddler noted that shen is getting half of his kit reworked and (Paasive, Q, W) and the other half tweaked (E, R). I also asked him why does shen's throwing sword has the projectile range of a spear stab or sword thrust. He stated sometimes that gameplay balance sometimes outweighs thematic expectations so no it's more than just his theme and they rework him they'll see the problems.

#PLUS BOTH MEDDLER AND RIOT SCRUFFY HAVE VERRIFIED HIM A GAMEPLAY AS WELL AS VISUAL UPDATE.

IGotScuttleCrabs1 votes

{quoted}

> It's nasty cycle: By not giving Shen more waveclear, he is forced to buy it item 3068.

This was the first problem i saw. Even as someone that never plays Shen i know giving him any sort of wave clear would be terrible. His main strat is to split push forcing people to come deal with him or to push tip a breakout happens then ult in. Giving him wave clear would make him way to oppressive as a splitpush//teamfight pressuring champ.

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