"Riot did good with Shaco, at least he won't be toxic anymore"

Ahristocats·Nov 2, 2016·40 votes·3,112 views

Even when the design team does dumb work on champs, they still manage to convince this board that they did good

lul

96 Comments

RogueWillNov 2, 201614 votes

Ofcourse he won't be toxic anymore, because he won't be played anymore

huehuehue

RalanrNov 2, 201613 votes

We have people on both ends of the argument. I wouldn't say the boards as a whole are convinced.

Sahn UzalNov 2, 20161 votes

Can agree with that, I've seen a bunch of posts complaining about the changes.

AhristocatsNov 2, 201625 votes

what you don't know is that the poeple supporting the rework know that the rework sucks, but support it because they hate shaco and want the champ to disappear

RalanrNov 2, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1RNb1MXQ,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-11-02T14:07:45.208+0000)

what you don't know is that the poeple supporting the rework know that the rework sucks, but support it because they hate shaco and want the champ to disappear

No, that's obvious for at least some of the people supporting it. There are also people that don't know how Shaco works and think it's good and I bet at least one person who likes Shaco and think it's good.

People supporting terrible reworks because it nerfs the champion they hate isn't a secret. It's why so many Yasuo rework threads get upvoted.

GrimspeakeNov 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No, that's obvious for at least some of the people supporting it. There are also people that don't know how Shaco works and think it's good and I bet at least one person who likes Shaco and think it's good.

People supporting terrible reworks because it nerfs the champion they hate isn't a secret. It's why so many Yasuo rework threads get upvoted.

Agreed. Buff shaco.

AhristocatsNov 2, 20163 votes

literally only saw one person that thought that the rework was good because they trust the rework

RalanrNov 2, 20165 votes

"At least one person"

Sweet, I was right.

The Yetii RiderNov 2, 20163 votes

Can confirm. I'm not being discrete about that. Shaco isn't healthy and his invisibility and flash help him pubstomp at low elo.

He needs an entire VGU. Honestly I think he needs it before Irelia (who is scheduled for this year) but I hope he's early 2018.

AstôlfoNov 2, 20168 votes

Low ELO means jackshit. He pubstomps low ELO because people in low ELO are trash. He is (was) perfectly healthy.

The Yetii RiderNov 2, 20164 votes

And people only get better by playing at low elo and choosing to continue playing. Dealing with pub stompers helps ensure the future of League. It's not like there's any benefit to a champion pub stomping.

Shaco will be healthy once he gets a full rework. Until then let him sit in the trash can.

AstôlfoNov 2, 20167 votes

Or people can just learn how to play against said damn pubstomper while in said ELO? He is (was) perfectly healthy already.

The Yetii RiderNov 2, 20162 votes

They have no reason to learn if he's sucking the fun out and making them quit the game entirely.

That's what constant invasions at low elo do. They make you stop jungling altogether. Because this is a game. It's supposed to be fun.

AstôlfoNov 2, 201610 votes

If they don't want to learn how to play against a champion, they shouldn't play League.

LeetriNov 2, 20168 votes

Say that on a Yasuo hate thread. :P

ShaolinToiletNov 3, 20162 votes

-100

Big LincolnNov 2, 201619 votes

if we reworked everyone who could stomp bronze riot would never be done

VexingRavenNov 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1RNb1MXQ,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2016-11-02T17:10:49.894+0000)

Can confirm. I'm not being discrete about that. Shaco isn't healthy and his invisibility and flash help him pubstomp at low elo.

He needs an entire VGU. Honestly I think he needs it before Irelia (who is scheduled for this year) but I hope he's early 2018.

See this I don't get it. Champions like Zed and Yasuo exist who are incredibly safe and can get both in and out of fights easily while still killing somebody. But nobody what happens to Shaco, people still hate him just because he can go invisible. A skill which he can use to either get into a fight, or get out of a fight, but never both. Once he makes his choice, he's pretty well committed. But everybody talks about how much they hate Shaco, and not about all the other toxic champions that do everything better and more safely. I don't understand, why do you hate poor Shaco so much?

The Yetii RiderNov 3, 20161 votes

Zed and Yasuo are difficult to play, which keeps them from being fully effective at low elo.

And neither of them can deny CS. Shaco takes your farm and then kills you.

AstôlfoNov 3, 20162 votes

Uh. Shaco is ridiculously hard to play. What are you drinking? And you're saying Zed and Yasuo can't deny you CS? LUL.

YCitizenSnipsYNov 3, 20161 votes

People say that about a lot of champs, why is it an issue now?

Cosmic WarperNov 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1RNb1MXQ,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-11-02T14:07:45.208+0000)

what you don't know is that the poeple supporting the rework know that the rework sucks, but support it because they hate shaco and want the champ to disappear

Ehh, i don't want him to disappear but I do want his play pattern to be healthier. It's very binary. He blinks in bursts you down, and runs away. His passive and blink could use some reworking, but the rest of his kit is okay i guess.

VexingRavenNov 3, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cosmic Warper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1RNb1MXQ,comment-id=000000010003,timestamp=2016-11-03T04:28:54.117+0000)

Ehh, i don't want him to disappear but I do want his play pattern to be healthier. It's very binary. He blinks in bursts you down, and runs away. His passive and blink could use some reworking, but the rest of his kit is okay i guess.

Honestly if he blinks in and burst you down repeatedly you've done something wrong. Either you fed him earlier or your team is just not playing right. How does he run away after be blinks into the middle of the 4 remaining team members? For that matter, how is that any different then Zed or LeBlanc who can also blink in, kill you, and then blink back out too?

AstôlfoNov 2, 201612 votes

The rework was trash and should be reverted.

Kingdom CornNov 2, 201612 votes

None of the reworks were good. You can build wukong full ad and he can burst people quicker than new Leblanc, rengar, shaco, katarina, and many others. There is no point playing assassins for one shoting when all fighters can do the same and have more impact.

PornicarNov 2, 20166 votes

this right here...... THIS RIGHT HERE..

KnoyleNov 2, 20164 votes

item 1412 item 3078 item 3142 item 3053 item 3102 item 3047

POP goes the ADC and not a single peel was cared about by her.

Kingdom CornNov 3, 20163 votes

MonkeyKing I build item 3142 item 3071 item 3147 item 3156 item 3033 item 3009 And I can 1 shot anything its fucking busted.

MkShenGreatAgainNov 3, 20163 votes

Probably gonna be quoting you on this at some point. You might want to make a separate forum post about it. :P

You know, not that Riot's reading any of this.

Kingdom CornNov 3, 20161 votes

I am shit at wording stuff. English isn't my primary language if you want to take this idea that I talked about and make it a post go ahead no need to credit me i don't care xD

GULAG 4 UNov 2, 201611 votes

The shaco "rework" isn't a "rework", it's just gutting his ass into the ground.

Anyone who isn't biased should be able to see this. This is coming from someone that fucking hates shaco.

TwidgetronNov 4, 20161 votes

I'm a Shaco main and I wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy... Hell, I wouldn't wish something of this caliber upon a Yasuo main.

ShadòwNov 2, 20166 votes

well.. he needs this rework because item 2043 no longer reveal him.

in his current state he would be broken.

AstôlfoNov 2, 20167 votes

Uh except his new stealth is so fucking short it's worthless trash in early?

ShadòwNov 2, 20163 votes

good.

because i actually want to at least have a chance to do anything against lvl2 Ganks.

AstôlfoNov 2, 201612 votes

Then don't play like an idiot?

ShadòwNov 2, 20163 votes

because you have so much things you can do on lvl 2.

AstôlfoNov 2, 20165 votes

I didn't realize playing safe close to your tower until your first back or when Shaco's visible/seen somewhere else at which point you could buy pinks (with old Shaco) was impossible. But no, let's just make him invisible to pinks and absolutely gut the stealth duration and damage instead because people are crying because they're bad LUL

ShadòwNov 2, 20167 votes

when you play an meele champ you have to give up farm.

how do you play at tower when the first waves are in the middle of the lane?

shaco main logic

DrCyanideNov 2, 20165 votes

You get to your lane before the minions, then draw enemy minion aggro and get them to push towards your tower.

The entire first wave is worth less than 120 gold. It's better to potentially lose a few CS and get the wave in a good spot than stand in the middle of the lane, waiting to give 550 gold to the enemy team.

AstôlfoNov 2, 20165 votes

Uh… by learning how to manage the damn wave?

Would you rather risk losing a bit of CS or dying and definitely losing CS?

ShadòwNov 2, 20163 votes

i would rather not be bothered on lvl2 at all

AstôlfoNov 2, 20164 votes

Then ban Shaco. No one cares what you want. That's not how it works.

ShadòwNov 2, 20164 votes

and who cares what YOU want?

Riot doesn't at least so enjoy getting your shit champ reworked finally

MordepoolNov 2, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1RNb1MXQ,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-02T14:04:00.860+0000)

Even when the design team does dumb work on champs, they still manage to convince this board that they did good

lul

Your wrong Buddy. See any prerework Morde Main ever.

Stars ShaperNov 2, 20164 votes

Giving clear strenghts and weaknesses to characters based on deception is not easy.

That's my thinking about wat happened to Shaco and LB.

it be lìke thatNov 2, 20164 votes

shaco can stay in the dirt until his rework. Evelynn has dealt with it for 2 years now, shaco can do it too.

AstôlfoNov 2, 20165 votes

Except Eve is perma-gutted because of her passive which makes it too dangerous to buff her otherwise. And Shaco is (was) perfectly healthy.

it be lìke thatNov 2, 20164 votes

wouldnt call anyone "perfectly healthy" who can invis whilst using his baked in flash.

but to each their own.

VexingRavenNov 3, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bish im saucin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1RNb1MXQ,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2016-11-02T19:45:33.845+0000)

wouldnt call anyone "perfectly healthy" who can invis whilst using his baked in flash.

but to each their own.

But what about that is so fundamentally broken? Woohoo he can disappear effectively. What ACTUAL ADVANTAGE does that give compared to somebody with 2 gap closers, a slow, a hard CC of some sort, and a shield? Yeah, it makes him infuriating sometimes. You know what else is infuriating? Actually, I can't even make a list there are so many things. But is it really actually that definitively strong that he needs to be gutted over it and claimed unhealthy? It's like Singed running away and poisoning you. It's annoying as hell and allows some fun gimmicks and distractions, but unhealthy?