Yorick nerf compared to Garen nerf

ValiantKiller·Aug 31, 2018·58 votes·15,937 views

Balance team : We will hit the core of kit which is his ghouls.

Same Balance team : We will just decrease some of Q damage but not touch his core kit either in his stupid tenacity and damage reduction on W or his passive post level 11.

I will tell you what is wrong with low elo , it not damage cause low elo people know that stomp him in lane. Their problem that they try to 5 man push mid and failing over and over while leaving pushing top lane freely without any true counter to that in mid push or stopping him top.

But again you are the worst balance team, you just decrease some champion Q damage while his problem is his W and passive while other get direct hit into his core kit just cause people can't handle split pushing that not related to his core kit.

118 Comments

AltiverseAug 31, 201827 votes

I don't really mind that they didn't nerf Garen's "core kit". What absolutely infuriates me though is how they're clearly just trolling us at this point.

"Garen's spun his way into top lane dominance as of late, and Q's early game damage leaves opponents with few opportunities to trade well."

And proceeds to:

Q - Decisive Strike BASE DAMAGE 30/65/100/135/170 ⇒ 30/60/90/120/150

Nerf the damage of his Q only when lane phase is already over. They're quite frankly just making fun of us.

ValiantKillerAug 31, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I don't really mind that they didn't nerf Garen's "core kit". What absolutely infuriates me though is how they're clearly just trolling us at this point.

And proceeds to: BASE DAMAGE 30/65/100/135/170 ⇒ 30/60/90/120/150

Nerf the damage of his Q only when lane phase is already over. They're quite frankly just making fun of us.

I know, right?! What a joke , he so op early so we will nerf him around level10 when lane phase is almost done or done.

FlemmanAug 31, 20181 votes

well, just imagine the tantrum if they instead nerf like that

BASE DAMAGE 30/65/100/135/170 ⇒ 10/40/90/130/170

will just force to always max Q (and then reach the 3.5 sec silence every game level 9) Here with Q nerf late, I think their goal is to promote max E first (and by doing that delaying stronger silence early) but they should move a bit more power from Q to E to be sure that this happens

The Yetii RiderAug 31, 20184 votes

What on Earth are you talking about? Garen's Q doesn't increase it's silence duration by rank, and the silence duration is a flat 1.5 seconds.

Garen's movement speedt boostscales up to 3.5 seconds

FlemmanAug 31, 20181 votes

ok, wasn't sure about which one scale (wiki fool me) but overall the reasoning is the same.

trying to put Q as a not max first ability would delay garen "non damage boost" a bit

Critmaster GarenAug 31, 20187 votes

{quoted}

ok, wasn't sure about which one scale (wiki fool me) but overall the reasoning is the same.

trying to put Q as a not max first ability would delay garen "non damage boost" a bit

if they tried that, they definitely failed.

q max was meta before they buffed it. the recent nerf partially reverted the q buff. q max is still going to be meta.

there is no reason to max e, because it scales more with champion level than ability rank. it is only very specific matchups like shen for example who can absorb your q with his w, where e max makes sense. even in that specific case its not great, because shens shield can absorb most of it early on.

thats why we maxed q since season 5.

DeathBurstAug 31, 20185 votes

Laning phase isn't over at level 5, you know. It's already -10 dmg/Q @ Lvl 5. And -20 dmg / Q @ Lvl 9, which is still before the end of laning phase most of the time.

AzeranthAug 31, 20181 votes

You get max ability at level 8 silly. 1st goes in to Q, then E then W, then Q Q then R then Q then E again then Q finally to max it out.

DeathBurstSep 1, 20181 votes

And at level 5, so with your Q Rank 3, it's already -10 dmg.

Plus, you get your first ability maxed at level 9, not 8. There are 9 letters in your own sentence, just count them out...

Fondling GemsAug 31, 20182 votes

Garen isn't really an issue at super early levels though, it is the fact that he maxes Q first that made him a pain to fight. Thus nerfing how much damage the first ability he maxes does actually makes perfectly good sense.

AzeranthAug 31, 20181 votes

Maybe garen isnt an issue early, because as a tank, he scales excellently, and thus shouldn't be an issue early ever under any circumstances

Fondling GemsSep 1, 20181 votes

Maybe that is exactly why he is getting nerfed?

Votable JesterAug 31, 20181 votes

Well apparently some Garens are doing a Q max first.

Critmaster GarenAug 31, 201812 votes

{quoted} We will just decrease some of Q damage but not touch his core kit either in his stupid tenacity and damage reduction on W or his passive post level 11.

garen mostly engages in repeated short trades with his q in lane. his entire playstile early on is to trade with auto attack + q and then retreat, as many times as possible. because he cant take extended fights for shit and gets demolished by other fighters or skirmishers when the fight lasts longer than 4 seconds.

this makes a 20 damage nerf on his q pretty impactful to his early game.

the parry on the w is the last ability in his kit that they should nerf, considering its the largest hook for skill expression in garens kit, and on a 24 second cooldown for most of the game. his passive isnt 100% useless, but its the least useful part of his kit.

for the record, i didnt agree with either nerfs to yorick or garen, and those yorick nerfs should 100% get reverted. but that q nerf is more impactful for garen than most people seem to understand.

ValiantKillerAug 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1JL3uNG1,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-08-31T14:59:48.823+0000)

garen mostly engages in repeated short trades with his q in lane. his entire playstile early on is to trade with auto attack + q and then retreat, as many times as possible. because he cant take extended fights for shit and gets demolished by other fighters or skirmishers when the fight lasts longer than 4 seconds.

this makes a 20 damage nerf on his q pretty impactful to his early game.

the parry on the w is the last ability in his kit that they should nerf, considering its the largest hook for skill expression in garens kit, and on a 24 second cooldown for most of the game. his passive isnt 100% useless, but its the least useful part of his kit.

for the record, i didnt agree with either nerfs to yorick or garen, and those yorick nerfs should 100% get reverted. but that q nerf is more impactful for garen than most people seem to understand.

You know that 20 AD difference happen around level 10 so that mean his early trades is gone long ago.

Critmaster GarenAug 31, 20184 votes

{quoted}

You know that 20 AD difference happen around level 10 so that mean his early trades is gone long ago.

the nerf already affects the rank 2 q? not the full 20 damage, but its still less damage on every single trade.

AzeranthAug 31, 20181 votes

You realize that as a tank, Garens trading pattern should be entirely responsive and reactive, trying to survuve, not looking to gain pressure over his laner BECAUSE HE IS A SCALING TANK

Critmaster GarenAug 31, 20183 votes

{quoted}

You realize that as a tank, Garens trading pattern should be entirely responsive and reactive, trying to survuve, not looking to gain pressure over his laner BECAUSE HE IS A SCALING TANK

garen isnt a tank. hes a fighter.

the entire premise for your argument and what youre basing your views on the champion on is already false.

Somber RitesAug 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1JL3uNG1,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-08-31T14:59:48.823+0000)

this makes a 20 damage nerf on his q pretty impactful to his early game.

yeah, except that 20 damage nerf is only actually there at rank 5. Because the rank 1 damage is the same, R2 is 5 less, R3 is 10 less, R4 is 15 less, and R5 is the full 20.

Not sure that still qualifies as "early game" at that point.

EDIT: I don't really care about the Garen thing, tbh.

What really bugs me is that after they gutted Yorick's early game, the had the GALL, the fucking GALL to buff the cancers that are Fiora and MasterYi

"Fiora's late game is pretty strong, but she could use some more dueling power in the early game to get there more often. Because, you know, duelist" (Ignoring the fact that she is already one of the most oppressive and aggressive people to lane against)

E - Bladework CRIT DAMAGE ON SECOND ATTACK 140/155/170/185/200% ⇒ 160/170/180/190/200%

Not a huge deal, yet still irritating that they'd make MY early game even more shit than it already is, and make one of my direct counter's laning phase even easier than it already is.

Yay.

And then there's Yi. Which pisses me off even more than Fiora's buff.

Meditate can be a strong defensive tool, but it’s often underappreciated by players who use it primarily for the heal. We're giving it a small buff to encourage its use during (rather than after) combat (Ignoring the fact that Yi is already destroying low elo, ya know, the same reason they nerfed Yorick for? LuL

W - Meditate COOLDOWN 35 seconds ⇒ 28 seconds DAMAGE REDUCTION 50/55/60/65/70% ⇒ 60/62.5/65/67.5/70%

Small buff my ass. 60 fucking percent damage reduction at LEVEL 1 AND 7 less seconds on it's CD.

AFTER SO MANY PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT HIM, AND THE FACT HE'S BASICALLY AN INSTA-WIN AT LOW ELO.

Nah though, just fuckin GUT YORICK'S ALREADY SHIT LANGING PHASE! That'll be SURE to fix this damage creep as we troll our playerbase with 20 less damage on Garen's Q at max rank and buff oppressive and busted champion's laning phases. LuL

Fuck my life.

AzeranthAug 31, 20181 votes

"Fiora has a great late game, lets give her a strong early game, that way the burden of skill and proactivity lies entirely on the permanently disadvantaged enemy"

nice parry xdAug 31, 20187 votes

I kinda agree since this change made no sense at all.

ValiantKillerAug 31, 20186 votes

{quoted}

I kinda agree since this change made no sense at all.

All what they done is making Garen do less damage in trades, all in and team fight. While making Yorick complete useless early special against ranged champions which was his best part of his kit that he can handle ranged top laners, made him weaker in early team fights but leaving his split push the same which was the strength that made him stomping low elo.

Yorick right now is more useless in high elo, same in low elo, weaker against his best matchs which was ranged top laners and the worst to make impact in teamfight.

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 31, 20185 votes

How is his Q not his core gameplay?

ValiantKillerAug 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1JL3uNG1,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-08-31T15:32:29.087+0000)

How is his Q not his core gameplay?

Are you asking for real or just troll question ?

Critmaster GarenAug 31, 20189 votes

{quoted}

Are you asking for real or just troll question ?

its a major part of garens gameplay. more than his spin.

we even build for frontloaded burst on q with triforce, because otherwise we wouldnt get anything done.

its the same problem that MonkeyKing mains have. they all build duskblade + stormrazor to frontload their damage, because otherwise the champion would suck and couldnt carry anything.

have you seen an actual fighter wukong in the past 2 years who builds tanky and for sustained damage?

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 31, 20183 votes

yeah, i've been playing triforce duskblade garen since last season. I had an 80% winrate with it last season according to the stats riot gave, so the build is fine for my elo. I rely on my Q for so much. Not even just for it's damage also for it's slow cleanse and engage/disengage.

I could see his spin mattering more for the classic cleaver garen but even then Q is as much of a core part as his spin is.

Critmaster GarenAug 31, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1JL3uNG1,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-31T16:08:53.010+0000)

yeah, i've been playing triforce duskblade garen since last season. I had an 80% winrate with it last season according to the stats riot gave, so the build is fine for my elo. I rely on my Q for so much. Not even just for it's damage also for it's slow cleanse and engage/disengage.

I could see his spin mattering more for the classic cleaver garen but even then Q is as much of a core part as his spin is.

im, not saying his spin is useless by the way. it does matter. but it takes until lvl 13 to really ramp up, because you need enough champion levels for it to become noticably strong.

Somber RitesAug 31, 20185 votes

It's funny, I remember they "buffed" Yorick after he lost a lot of power due to the sterak's change.

In order to "compensate" they reduced the rank 5 Q CD by 1 second, and then made both the ghouls and the maiden update their stats as Yorick stats are changed, something that should have been there from day 1.

They indirectly nerfed him, gave him a worthless buff, and a QoL change that should have been there forever ago.

And now they're nerfing him again.

yay.

Yorick wasn't even too strong, he was just playable. I mean, sure he was oppressive in lane, and is strong in low elo, but I don't see them double nerfing Riven Darius Camille Fiora Irelia Fiora Gnar Fiora DrMundo all of which (with the exception of Renekton and Pantheon) are incredibly strong in late game, unlike Yorick who at that point is just a tank who can hit turrets real good unless he has ghouls and maiden up, and THEN he's a threat.

I'm mad.

ValiantKillerAug 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Somber Rites,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1JL3uNG1,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-08-31T17:27:05.930+0000)

It's funny, I remember they "buffed" Yorick after he lost a lot of power due to the sterak's change.

In order to "compensate" they reduced the rank 5 Q CD by 1 second, and then made both the ghouls and the maiden update their stats as Yorick stats are changed, something that should have been there from day 1.

They indirectly nerfed him, gave him a worthless buff, and a QoL change that should have been there forever ago.

And now they're nerfing him again.

yay.

Yorick wasn't even too strong, he was just playable. I mean, sure he was oppressive in lane, and is strong in low elo, but I don't see them double nerfing all of which (with the exception of Renekton and Pantheon) are incredibly strong in late game, unlike Yorick who at that point is just a tank who can hit turrets real good unless he has ghouls and maiden up, and THEN he's a threat.

I'm mad.

Yorick is my backup champions for top lane and i don't dare to pick him as first blind pick cause there many counters to him the only way i can win that match is by split pushing and enemy team don't respect that

Somber RitesAug 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Yorick is my backup champions for top lane and i don't dare to pick him as first blind pick cause there many counters to him the only way i can win that match is by split pushing and enemy team don't respect that

Yorick is the only champion besides Urgot that I find genuinely fun to play. I have M7 Yorick (and I think M6 Urgot) on my main account, he's the very first champ I ever really main'd.

Unfortunately Riot keeps shafting me on BOTH champions.

Guess I'll just go back to Final Fantasy XIV until Riot decides it's okay for me to enjoy playing League again.

AzeranthAug 31, 20181 votes

Urgot is such a ridiculous oppresive and unfun champ to play against. Ranged, percent health damage, excellent use with CDR, an execute> Hes basically ranged garen. Including a huge defensive steroid on a low cooldown, and the ability to truck through CCs

AzeranthAug 31, 20181 votes

Its almost like Riot doesn't grasp the concept that being good early is not something that should be accompanied by also being good late, and that champions who are breed toxic playstyles, and squash diversity

VoraciousXAug 31, 20183 votes

Honestly for a long time I've always thought the biggest problem with Garen is the length of the silence on his Q, not the actual damage he puts out. You basically have to sit there and take his whole combo because he hit you with an enhanced auto. Where's the ability to outplay that other than wait out the duration(which is nearly 5 seconds btw)?

They should have either nerfed him like they nerfed Yasuo(lower duration on Q before it wears off), or nerfed the silence duration.

Romans VI XXIIIAug 31, 20182 votes

Where's the ability to outplay that other than wait out the duration(which is nearly 5 seconds btw)?

First off it's only 1.5 seconds at all ranks.

Second off the counter play is to not let the second most immobile champion that is 100% melee range walk up to you and stab you in the face. Besides Mord, Garen is the easiest champion to kite.

Literally every champion in the game (other than mord) has more mobility and/or cc to allow them to get to their target or run from said target. Garen has a scaling 1.5 - 3.5 MS buff followed by a 1.5s silence IF you let him walk up to you and slap you.

VoraciousXAug 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1JL3uNG1,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2018-08-31T16:17:51.558+0000)

First off it's only 1.5 seconds at all ranks.

Second off the counter play is to not let the second most immobile champion that is 100% melee range walk up to you and stab you in the face. Besides Mord, Garen is the easiest champion to kite.

Literally every champion in the game (other than mord) has more mobility and/or cc to allow them to get to their target or run from said target. Garen has a scaling 1.5 - 3.5 MS buff followed by a 1.5s silence IF you let him walk up to you and slap you.

That counterplay falls flat when you are playing a champion that also needs to be in your face to do damage, and they silence you for nearly the entire duration of their E, and no, the duration is 6 seconds at all ranks(now that I've accurately timed it, apparently the 1.5 second break free from all slows doesn't count into the 4.5 seconds you get to wait for the next auto attack, so it lasts 6 seconds), that's how long his Q lasts. The SILENCE lasts 1.5 seconds. There's no other champion in the game I can think of that can literally force you to eat his or her entire combo if he/she gets on top of you. You can usually flash or do something. Garen needs to be remade into something with more interactive gameplay, because playing against him is always literally waiting for him to waste his Q to be able to act, or being forced to go to other lanes and impact them elsewhere, and if he doesn't then you die.

Critmaster GarenAug 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

That counterplay falls flat when you are playing a champion that also needs to be in your face to do damage,

play around cooldown windows

and they silence you for nearly the entire duration of their E,

1.5 seconds silence before tenacity vs. 3 seconds of his spin. so its either half of the spin duraton or less than 1/3 depending how much tenacity you have.

and no, the duration is 6 seconds at all ranks

up to 4.5 seconds of movement speed

the slow cleanse happens upon activation of the q. this means if you slow him at any point after he pressed the button, garen cant cleanse the slow.

VoraciousXAug 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1JL3uNG1,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-31T20:12:39.268+0000)

play around cooldown windows

There's only one cooldown to play around, and it's uptime is nearly constant. Again, he's an uninteractive champion.

1.5 seconds silence before tenacity vs. 3 seconds of his spin. so its either half of the spin duraton or less than 1/3 depending how much tenacity you have.

With no tenacity, you eat 2 seconds of his E. I tested it with training dummies. That's nearly all of your health unless you're a tank or a juggernaut.

up to 4.5 seconds of movement speed

the slow cleanse happens upon activation of the q. this means if you slow him at any point after he pressed the button, garen cant cleanse the slow.

I'm not talking about the slow cleanse, or the movement speed. I'm talking about the ENTIRE DURATION OF HIS Q. His Q lasts for up to 6 seconds before you have to use it. That's a little much, don't you think?

Additional info, his E actually lasts longer than 3 seconds when I counted it, even though it says it lasts 3 seconds.

Critmaster GarenAug 31, 20183 votes

{quoted}

There's only one cooldown to play around, and it's uptime is nearly constant.

before cdr:

9 seconds on the passive. 9 seconds on q and spin. 24 seconds on his w.

the q cooldown only starts after the q connected or runs out. so the fact that you can hold it for 6 seconds doesnt mean much.

With no tenacity, you eat 2 seconds of his E. I tested it with training dummies. That's nearly all of your health unless you're a tank or a juggernaut.

Additional info, his E actually lasts longer than 3 seconds when I counted it, even though it says it lasts 3 seconds.

if it lasts longer than 3 seconds, it doesnt deal damage for more than 3 seconds. thats why cancelling the spin for immedate auto attacks afterwards is important.

but im pretty sure they removed that 0.5 second dead time at some point.

if you still want to tell me the spin deals damage for more than 3 seconds, youre bullshitting.

Romans VI XXIIIAug 31, 20181 votes

wow where do I even start.

That counterplay falls flat when you are playing a champion that also needs to be in your face to do damage

Okay name 1 other champion that can't completely negate his Q, CC him and walk away, or just flat our walk away. (Other than Mord, cause again he is the only champ with less Mobility)

they silence you for nearly the entire duration of their E

E lasts 3s, Silence lasts 1.5s. IDK where you went to school at but 1.5s does not equal "nearly the entire duration" of 3s. It is Exactly half, before Tenacity.

the duration is 6 seconds at all ranks

Okay, so he has 6 seconds to hit with his enhanced AA, Cool? again lets go back to the first part about walking away / CCing him.

There's no other champion in the game I can think of that can literally force you to eat his or her entire combo if he/she gets on top of you.

LMFAO wow, except for just about EVERY CHAMPION.

Ahri Charms you, you EAT everything else for free. Ashe Ults you, you EAT everything else for free. Alistar Combos you, Well u just took everything for free. Amumu Bandages you, you EAT everything else for free. Anivia Stuns you, you EAT everything else for free.

I mean the list goes on and on and on for literary any champion that has ANY form of CC can do this. Some don't even need CC to force you to eat a large part of their combo.

Shaco Zed Talon Leblanc Rengar

The only Difference is that alot of these can do it at a SAFE RANGE, where as Garen has to WALK UP to you.

playing against him is always literally waiting for him to waste his Q to be able to act, or being forced to go to other lanes and impact them elsewhere, and if he doesn't then you die.

The same can be said just about any champion. You fight them when their abilities are on CD, its Strategy 101.

The reason Garen is strong is because of the LACK of knowledge people have about Garen, about their own champion, and about how to play said champion vs a Garen. Not Cause of Garens Kit.

VoraciousXAug 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1JL3uNG1,comment-id=0004000100000001,timestamp=2018-08-31T23:10:49.650+0000)

wow where do I even start.

Okay name 1 other champion that can't completely negate his Q, CC him and walk away, or just flat our walk away. (Other than Mord, cause again he is the only champ with less Mobility)

His Q gives him decent movespeed. When you don't have boots you can't just walk away, when you do have boots, he has boots, and again, if you're a champion who needs to be on top of someone to deal damage to them, this falls flat. You can walk away all you want after he's Q'd you, but you can't get out of the range of his E, and you can't fight him back because your abilities are completely unusable.

E lasts 3s, Silence lasts 1.5s. IDK where you went to school at but 1.5s does not equal "nearly the entire duration" of 3s. It is Exactly half, before Tenacity.

and that's about all he needs before he ults to kill someone if he's even remotely ahead, in fact, most of the time, like Critmaster Garen said, they cancel their E for an auto. Still eating most of his combo.

Okay, so he has 6 seconds to hit with his enhanced AA, Cool? again lets go back to the first part about walking away / CCing him.

Yes, let's walk away from Garen AND the minions you need to farm for an entire 6 seconds. This is the exact reason Yasuo's Q duration got cut. It's not about the fact that he can Q me, it's about the fact that he can bully me away from minions by threatening me with that Q for an entire 6 seconds before he decides to Q a minion.

LMFAO wow, except for just about EVERY CHAMPION.

Charms you, you EAT everything else for free.

I've been hit by Ahri charm's and still dodged the pull back from her Q. She also has to ult in and LAND the charm on most occasions, unless you just walked into it.

Ults you, you EAT everything else for free.

Ashe uses her ult from a far away range to initiate fights for her teammates, and she doesn't have 4 frost shot stacks from her ult, meaning she can't do everything else JUST from her initiation ability.

Combos you, Well u just took everything for free.

Alistar isn't a damage dealer, his combo can be messed up and missed, and you can get away before he uses his entire moveset.

Bandages you, you EAT everything else for free. Amumu is a DoT champion, he's not intended to deal a bunch of up-front damage. His Q>R>E is all he has, but it's not gonna kill you, or likely even do close to a large amount of damage. Amumu needs to follow you afterwards to actually kill you, or do any significant damage because of his W. This is nowhere near the same thing.

Stuns you, you EAT everything else for free.

It's a slow skillshot stun, that again, has to be landed, and you can get away from Anivia before she has a chance to E you. It is nowhere near guaranteed.

I mean the list goes on and on and on for literary any champion that has ANY form of CC can do this. Some don't even need CC to force you to eat a large part of their combo.

No, it doesn't. The closest champion that has a CC that can force you to eat their combo is Cassiopeia, and you can counter that with more movement speed to get out of her ground faster. The best thing you can do against Garen is build merc treads, and those only help vs his CC, and do absolutely nothing else to him. It's almost like buying Ninja Tabi to stop an Ahri.

In all of the cases you mentioned, you CAN FIGHT BACK. You can't fight back when you have no abilities to fight back with thanks to a silence.

The only Difference is that alot of these can do it at a SAFE RANGE, where as Garen has to WALK UP to you.

The same can be said just about any champion. You fight them when their abilities are on CD, its Strategy 101.

You do, but they're never as important as a Garen Q. If you get hit by Garen Q when he has any kind of lead or is even, you're gonna die, unless you're a tank, because you can't avoid the rest of his kit, and you can't fight back.

The reason Garen is strong is because of the LACK of knowledge people have about Garen, about their own champion, and about how to play said champion vs a Garen. Not Cause of Garens Kit.

Yeah that's why Garen is the number 1 top laner in Korea right now, because people don't know how to play against Garen. I never said he is someone I cannot beat, but his gameplay pattern is not about fighting him, it's about outlasting him and impacting the map elsewhere. He has no interactivity in his kit, because you want to stay away from him at all costs unless he's used his Q, which starts at a measly 8 seconds and only gets smaller. Fighting him is like a fighting a bully with your hands tied behind your back and your feet tied together because of his silence. Sure, the only thing he can do is run at you, Q you, spin a little bit, and ult. But the sad thing is that if he hits his Q and has all of that other stuff up, you're dead, or half health in the laning phase, again without being able to fight back while he backs off to heal. They removed Talon's Silence, they removed Leblanc's silence, they removed Kassadin's silence, they can remove Garen's and give him something else to make it actually worthwhile to interact with him.

Romans VI XXIIISep 1, 20181 votes

Your hopelessly lost lol

Power CosmicAug 31, 20183 votes

I think specialist like Yorick add a lot to the game.

Death by GlamourAug 31, 20182 votes

mhm, perhaps the best way would have been to hit triforce and steraks, such a nerf would hit quite a few champs but very few who build them are doing badly (irelia for instance is getting a random buff so would counter act it) but a fair few are doing very well Camille Darius for example

ValiantKillerAug 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1JL3uNG1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-31T10:14:29.979+0000)

mhm, perhaps the best way would have been to hit triforce and steraks, such a nerf would hit quite a few champs but very few who build them are doing badly (irelia for instance is getting a random buff so would counter act it) but a fair few are doing very well for example

item 3078 item 3124 item 3095 item 3147 remove them and add something that doesn't burst your damage out of no where, then we are fine

DuskDaUmbreonAug 31, 20186 votes

Except Rageblade doesn't "Burst your damage", it's quite literally the only item that never gives all of its stats at once.

AzeranthAug 31, 20181 votes

The onhit bonus in rage blade effect all of the afroementioned items, meaning it does give a significant burst to all who can use it

AzeranthAug 31, 20181 votes

The design of triforce was to allow large trading windows to top laner fights, without explicitly gutting power from those who use triforce. Now its just plain overtuned

ValiantKillerAug 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The design of triforce was to allow large trading windows to top laner fights, without explicitly gutting power from those who use triforce. Now its just plain overtuned

Cause the runes damage special Conquer and Press the attack pushing the damage of shen and trinity to next level.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 31, 20181 votes

What Garen gets Trinity though? You always see a Black Cleaver. I don't think I've seen a Trinity on him...ever. (And neither has op.gg, apparently).

I'll agree that Trinity needs nerfs, as most of the people who use it are too strong right now (except Fiora and Yorick), but that wouldn't nerf Garen at all.

Now, Sterak's nerfs, on the other hand...

Critmaster GarenAug 31, 20184 votes