https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/MwkHiAqN-quick-gameplay-thoughts-july-21
" what should we do about some mid laners (Ori, Synda etc) who overly present/reliable choice"
if they're reliable, i suggest making them less reliable ecksdee
but for real if they're reliable then just make them less reliable, for instance Q speed of orianna tuned down
nm101035 votesNerfing q movespeed would make playing her feel awful, I would be all for removing e resistances at rank 1 in the spell while keeping some scaling on it.
Viktor Von Lazer15 votesNerfing q movespeed would make playing her feel awful, I would be all for removing e resistances at rank 1 in the spell while keeping some scaling on it.
^This 100%. The problem with Orianna is that you don't even have to try to win lane you, can sit back and scale. But unlike other midlaners Viktor for example, you aren't punished nearly as badly for playing poor. If you're playing against someone better than you mid, most of the time you lose lane or may have to sacrifice your build path so you don't feed. If you're playing Orianna just put an extra point in E and grab Merc treads after lost chapter. You now have the equivalent MR of a negatron cloak (which most midlaners would not be able to buy) with barely any sacrifice to you build path. On top of that you have a shield negating damage + barrier as a summoner spell. Orianna is very anti-snowball. and I think making it so you start off with less resistance but get more over time is the best possible change so you can still be snowballed on if you play badly.
I Main Swain6 voteshonestly she really doesnt need the resistances at all they're kind of just an extra add on. i feel like people would be satisfied if they remove the bonus armor and mr and maybe reduced the shield slightly early game
ZapMyHeart8 votes[{quoted}](name=I Main Swain,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1BXyx2On,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2017-07-21T19:13:47.785+0000)
honestly she really doesnt need the resistances at all they're kind of just an extra add on. i feel like people would be satisfied if they remove the bonus armor and mr and maybe reduced the shield slightly early game
Are you going to increase her damage for compensation? Because her shield is what makes her a utility mage. Nerfing that utility means changing her identity and making her more bursty for future buffs.
Shield is never a problem. Janna, Karma, Morgana and so on often have extra effects tacked onto their shield. Ori's shield values are the same as a support's shield as well.
I Main Swain2 votesit really depends on what riot wants to focus on with her, there are really a lot of ways they could weaken her to make her more balanced. increased mana cost on q slightly early game, decrease damage on q slightly, lower shield value/removed bonus stats. whatever they do though, i dont think she needs to have any bonus on her shield, its plenty strong as an ability without it. a part of me wonders how it would work out if they turned it into a single spell shield rather than a damage shield
ZapMyHeart7 votes[{quoted}](name=I Main Swain,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1BXyx2On,comment-id=0003000100000001,timestamp=2017-07-21T19:28:53.662+0000)
it really depends on what riot wants to focus on with her, there are really a lot of ways they could weaken her to make her more balanced. increased mana cost on q slightly early game, decrease damage on q slightly, lower shield value/removed bonus stats. whatever they do though, i dont think she needs to have any bonus on her shield, its plenty strong as an ability without it. a part of me wonders how it would work out if they turned it into a single spell shield rather than a damage shield
Keep in mind, her shield is nothing out of the ordinary, considering your typical supports have bonus functions on their shields.
Janna has +AD, Morgana blocks all CC, Sona heals, Karma boosts MS, etc etc.
As mentioned, stripping her resistances from her shield basically means she'll be more bursty as a result when they do decide to buff her again.
Focus on her damage component. Namely her R's cooldown or W's ratio.
Viktor Von Lazer6 votesKeep in mind, her shield is nothing out of the ordinary, considering your typical supports have bonus functions on their shields.
Janna has +AD, Morgana blocks all CC, Sona heals, Karma boosts MS, etc etc.
As mentioned, stripping her resistances from her shield basically means she'll be more bursty as a result when they do decide to buff her again.
Focus on her damage component. Namely her R's cooldown or W's ratio.
Her damage is pretty laughable without items... Her ratio on W is fine. Orianna doesn't work if she doesn't do damage. The reasons you can zoning and control space is because she can delete your adc if they are stupid enough to casually stroll next to that ball. You need to fear the ball. Her abilities are all already pretty fair and her damage is too since it takes 2 items to ramp up if she's not ahead. The only real problem with Orianna is that it's almost impossible to snowball against her if that Orianna player is even half decent. That's where most of the consistency comes from and why everyone feels comfortable blind picking her. "Who cares cause I won't lose lane anyway and still be useful late game." And you won't lose lane cause you get free stats at the very start.
a small nerf to the R cooldown is fine. But I think late game you need a low cooldown. Lux has an ult on like a 30 second cooldown lategame. Most midlaners need that type of low cooldown lategame.
I Main Swain2 votesyour typical support also doesnt have much high damage capability. Orianna isnt primarily a support, even though she can be played as one perfectly well. i agree that her r cooldown is too short, but i also think that her early game is just a little bit too safe for someone who scales so well in the late game.
ZapMyHeart7 votes[{quoted}](name=I Main Swain,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1BXyx2On,comment-id=000300010000000100000001,timestamp=2017-07-21T20:19:56.075+0000)
your typical support also doesnt have much high damage capability. Orianna isnt primarily a support, even though she can be played as one perfectly well. i agree that her r cooldown is too short, but i also think that her early game is just a little bit too safe for someone who scales so well in the late game.
But your typical mage has higher damage than Orianna. Orianna's kit meshes the two roles together. Not enough utility to be a real support and not enough damage to delete an enemy like a burst mage would. Somewhere smack dab in the middle.
WoonStruck1 votesOri can kill a squishy with QW. And she doesn't have to be obscenely fed to do so, considering how reliable her laning is.
Saying she doesn't have as much damage as a typical mage is bullshit, considering her its still enough to easily 1-shot. In addition, it has much lower downtime and has more utility packed in compared to most.
ZapMyHeart7 votesOri can kill a squishy with QW. And she doesn't have to be obscenely fed to do so, considering how reliable her laning is.
Saying she doesn't have as much damage as a typical mage is bullshit, considering her its still enough to easily 1-shot. In addition, it has much lower downtime and has more utility packed in compared to most.
Lol no. Don't overexaggerate. Killing a squishy with Q-W? Please. Look at her numbers and compare it to your typical burst mage. If she could murder someone with just a Q-W, then your standard burst mage is going to destroy the entire team with their Q alone.
How much of a lower downtime does she have compared to most? The only cooldown scaling is on her Q and R. Please name most of these mages instead of arbitrarily throwing out nonsense.
An Undead brat1 votesAnd Orianna's shield deals damage if it travels to a target, which means in laning phase it always hits an engaging (shorter-ranged) opponent because she keeps the ball in the wave for zoning.
ZapMyHeart6 votes[{quoted}](name=Sexy Bisex Plant,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1BXyx2On,comment-id=0003000100000002,timestamp=2017-07-21T23:52:01.815+0000)
And Orianna's shield deals damage if it travels to a target, which means in laning phase it always hits an engaging (shorter-ranged) opponent because she keeps the ball in the wave for zoning.
It flies in a straight line. Learn to dodge it. Also, melees always had an issue with ranged, so there's that.
An Undead brat1 votesAnd? The point is it does do something other besides the shield.
PijemSamoVodku5 votesThe damage is fucking laughable, stop crying about bonus stuff that is an expression of skill. Better complain about free stuff like resistances on E or her passive...
SweedishGunner3 votes'Utility' mage? What? Orianna is more centred around teamwide CC and burst, the shield is just a bonus like Lux's.
ZapMyHeart6 votes'Utility' mage? What? Orianna is more centred around teamwide CC and burst, the shield is just a bonus like Lux's.
That's what a utility mage is....her damage is lower than that of a burst mage and her utility ain't the greatest compared to that of a support.
Lord help us all with Rito's dumb classification.
flibitydoo7 votesdoesn't Orianna have inherently the lowest armour/mag res in the game from a base stats perspective intentionally designed this way because of the resistances she get's from having the ball?
personally I think that's a cool dynamic, but what i find more problematic is her W. most players don't use it for the slow/movespeed bonus rather, as an extra ap-ratio to increase the burst on her Q or ult damage.
Blåbæret8 votesOrianna can't trade without the shield. So yes, she needs it and the resistances.
Best princess EU22 votesas an Ori main, Orianna is not reliable
it's just that if she misses something it doesn't matter, her ult cd for instance is too low, miss it? just wait 40 sec
ChaddyFantome13 votesas an Ori main, Orianna is not reliable
it's just that if she misses something it doesn't matter, her ult cd for instance is too low, miss it? just wait 40 sec
No clue why they lowered the CD in the first place.
LUXANNA HOSHIDO5 votesthey said something about not having her ult made her a "different champion" so the lowered it so she could use it in fights more often
Kariu Rena18 votesTook them this long to realize these free lane win mages could be a problem LUL
Cant wait to see some delusional mage mains telling us how orianna is balanced
Inting Pillow17 votes
IS UNBALANCED? FUCKING ORI IS UNBALANCED? ORIANNA IS ONE OF THE MOST CHALLENGING AND DIFFICULT TO PLAY MAGES IN THE GAME! IT IS 100% FAIR THAT I HAVE THE BEST CSING WITH AUTO OF ANY MAGE, I HAVE A POKE COMBO THAT PROCS THUNDERLORDS WITHOUT AN AUTO, AND A SHIELD. JUST BECAUSE Q>W>E COMBO DEALS 50% OF MY OPPONENTS HEALTH AT LEVEL 3 DOESN'T MEAN IT'S UNFAIR. CAUSE ORI TAKES SKILL. I HAVE TO WAIT TO PRESS W AFTER MY Q LANDS AND THEN PRESS E AFTER THAT. I NEED TO ACTUALLY PRESS A BUTTON AT A RIGHT TIME TO DO SOMETHING. MEANWHILE NOOB CHAMPS LIKE AZIR JUST AUTO FOR EVERYTHING. ORI IS THE PINNACLE OF BALANCE. JUST BECAUSE SHE HAS LITERALLY THE BEST CC IN THE GAME ON A LONG RANGE AOE TIED IN WITH INSTANT BURST FROM HER W. DOESN'T MAKE HER UNBALANCED. IM SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE CRITICIZING MY MAIN WHO I SPENT TWO GAMES TWO HOURS WHO I SPENT OVER 55 HOURS MASTERING IS BROKEN AND TAKES NO SKILL.
20 upvotes and I'll do one for Syndra
EvanThomas14 votesonly 22 upvotes to go feelsbadman
rework trundle4 votesmake that 23 xd
I Main Swain3 voteswell im glad that people hate the "no skill champion" rages as much as i do
INoble KnightI7 votesOri's winrate is below 50%. Like Jesus Christ there's about 22 champs played mid with higher winrates than her.
Fairyfleur7 votesThat's because she has such a high playrate.
INoble KnightI6 votes17% is a high play rate?
PijemSamoVodku6 votesYes her and Syndra are balanced, its the other mages that are utter shit and need buffs which they are getting on PBE. Stop pretending that mages and their itemization arent weak as fuck, better look at fucking support items, lethality and broken ADCs that are running rampant...
NineTailedMystic14 votesCool, I anticipate Ahri being fotm again, cried and circlejerked about, and nerfed again if Sydra and/or Ori are being nerfed.
Fisher No Chains2 votesBe glad that Ahri hasn't received anything but nerfs for months like, well, half my midlane pool. -_-
Well I get it, Riot is telling me to go back to my first main (Ahri), so I'll have a chance to play a champion that doesn't get nerfed 20 times every year.
Fisher No Chains13 votesAre they really planning to nerf Syndra even more? She's sitting at a 47.5% winrate in dia+ right now. Really, some more nerfs and she'll become the new Azir or Ryze, out of SoloQ viability because of eSports.
As for Orianna, been saying it forever: nerf the god damn cost on Q. That's it. Make her less of a lane bully and she's absolutely fine.
TheOnlyJoe2 votesSyndra just needs indirect nerfs at this point, one of the reasons she became so reliable is because everything else got nerfed. It's time Riot starts buffing unpopular mid picks that are weak rather than nerfing the current strong ones. Though they're already doing that on PBE already
Shirvallah12 votesBut her Q speed is already pretty slow, though.
AleksaTeemo10 votesOrianas laning phase needs to be nerfed,duo to how much stronger and useful for her team she would be later on in teamfights compared to you if you fall behind.As for syndra,her R dmg needs to be reduced,if you get hit by QE combo,she needs another sphere on the ground and you are done unless you are tank.
Salson8 votesLet's nerf Ori and Syndra, not like Malzahar is butchering everything below diamond.
Let's nerf Fiora and Galio and buff Trundle and Cho, they seem underplayed in diamond.
Let's not touch Draven, if he was op, he'd be picked in competitive play.
Fuck this, I'll just go learn Jayce again. At least some good champs benefited from this retarded lethality meta.
GayFluffyUnicorn3 votesLol malz is a free lane xD How are people getting "butchered" by malzahar? I just pick gp, kassa literally anyone who wants to free farm and win the game.
Blåbæret7 votesOrianna's been the same for a long time. Other mid laners got nerfed and AP itemization was changed. Her most recent buff was a decrease on her ult CD. I suggest reverting that buff and see where the leaves her. Orianna's pretty much been the same champ for a long time. It's just now that she's in the pro scene people start complaining because every other AP mid laner is garbage thanks to the mage update.
DoktorKaiser6 votesDumbest proposition I have ever heard, why you even propose shit when you dont play the champion... Just nerf the fucking mana costs, she can spam as much as she wants nowadays, hell I can probably farm with my ball and no autoattacks and I still wouldnt go oom. Also the resistances on E passive early game are a bit too high, maybe, just maybe increase her R cooldown, its still hard as hell to hit compared to other skills in the game when you cant count on your team to deliever it. But seriously who upvoted this lowering the Q movement speed suggestion, that is just wrong...
OHminus4 votesWhy Syndra nerfs? She's sitting at a sub 50 percent winrate and a modest pickrate.
Even the pros aren't opting for her as much anymore.
Ahristocats9 votespros are actually picking her a lot
TheMoralSupport3 votesI don't want people to bombard me with counter-arguments as I've not taken a side regarding this debate... But Orianna currently has a 50.56% winrate, can we look at draven instead? lmao
AirKingNeo2 votesHigh playrate?
Also we all know Draven is broken; doesn't excuse Orianna.
TheMoralSupport1 votes11% playrate and 50% winrate seems pretty balanced in my eyes, what do ik tho lol. [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]
AirKingNeo2 votesPick ban proplay.
Baron Perenolde3 votesI'm all for nerfing Orianna, but don't make her clunky by lowering her Q speed. Losing resistances on her E? Cool. Toning down some of her damage? That'd be fine too. A utility mage shouldn't be as bursty as Orianna is.
Penns2 votesMake her lane easier to punish imo
Reduce E shield and/or reduce or remove the bonus armor and mr it gives.
Or nerf her q speed/damage
Torterra622 voteslol i hope this doesnt turn out like the fiora nerfs. Everyone said make it so she doesnt lower attack speed. riot ignored that and went on to nerf her MS from ult and passive. Now everyone says nerf the resistance or the sheild strength of orianna's E early game. Instead their example of a nerf is lowering her Q speed. ???