Pantheon needs to be nerfed into unviability similar to pre rework Poppy

HateDaddy··13 votes·785 views

Pantheons early game is to the same thing that pre rework Poppys late game was. You are legitimately left with one choice: "can I tank his spears or not?" Past this point, there is only one other means of dealing with him and it comes down to whether you outrange him entirely or not.

Prior to s6, one of the things that was a viable solution was to run cloth5 and out sustain his mana pool and that worked pretty effectively. His lane phase was still brutal but you could actually play around that. It wasn't easy but it could be done. Now, with meditation and corrupting potion, pantheons mana problems are gone. You can't rely on outsustaining his mana pool. You can't even be around him at 50% HP if he's running ignite (most of them will run ignite) because of the crit execute passive on his E towers won't protect you either because he will block two tower shots.

How is this okay? He has remaining the winningest top laner for months now with a fairly moderate pick rate (most sites have him between 7-9%). Most people on this board don't know how to abuse his lane phase because they think bullying means you sit on minion waves and auto attack them every chance you can and then randomly die to minions. However, anyone with half a brain realizes all you have to do is spam Q off cooldown from max range and save stun for any potential engage. If you're melee or even short ranged, there is legitimately nothing you can do about this. While this isn't old yorick levels of zero counterplay, it's pretty damn close.

There are a small handful of champions who can survive Pantheon but that's not the problem. Considering his pickrate and winrate for the last forever, that doesn't seem to matter either. Not to mention, you just buffed him with lethality buffs. And that doesn't justify lack of balance either because OP champions have always had some lane counters so that's not even a valid argument. Nor is the argument that he "falls off" - which by the way, his winrate doesn't dip below 50% until 35-40 minutes, how many games goes that long anymore? He needs to be dumpstered until he's reworked. I shouldn't have to waste my ban on him permanently because I actually want to play the game.

31 Comments

ReySolomon1 votes

Maybe if enough people complain they can nerf him but for now let's just deal with it.

HateDaddy5 votes

{quoted}

Maybe if enough people complain they can nerf him but for now let's just deal with it.

Or we can nerf him and not deal with it at all

ReySolomon1 votes

it would take months but like i said if enough people can complain then they would maybe do it.

HateDaddy5 votes

{quoted}

it would take months but like i said if enough people can complain then they would maybe do it.

He's been busted for months, he should've been nerfed a long time ago. As far as complaining goes, this board has some strange hard-on for Pantheon. Idk why.

ReySolomon1 votes

hard on what you mean? well if they are going to be nerfing darius over and over I think they should definitely nerf pantheon too.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

hard on what you mean? well if they are going to be nerfing darius over and over I think they should definitely nerf pantheon too.

These people defend Pantheon to no end, but they complain about well designed champions like Zed.

ReySolomon1 votes

Zed is pretty easy to use in lower elos but higher it takes skill, i don't defend any champion because most of them are pretty ''broken''

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

Pantheon is great against people who are very low-skilled I think.

He does quite literally 1 of 4 things. Throw a spear. Block 1 auto attack, spell, or turret shot. Jump-Stun. Spears in a cone.

Very rarely you'll see the fifth attribute, which I've heard is something of a Grand Skyfall.

I guess this is the casual case of "git gud" for dealing with Pantheon.

Know Panths cooldowns, poke out his passive, play a champ with harass potential.

I know Pantheon is like the best counter to Fiora, maybe that's why so many people complain.

Evil White Man 4 votes

Just because you can summarize his kit in a way that sounds retarded dosnt mean it isnt strong. "he only does 4 things hurr durr" no fucking shit my dude, most champions only do "1 of 4 things"

And you cant out poke a pantheon early game, thats not how it works......

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

You have to explain that you can't out poke Pantheon, not just say that it doesn't work.

LankPants4 votes

Pantheon has a 54% winrate in the top lane in plat+. He only has 4 true counters, Sion, Heimerdinger, Maokai and Singed. Every other champ he shits on.

Are people meant to get better than Plat/Diamond, I mean you were Silver in the last season you played, you mostly play with Silvers, do you want to teach me?

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

Was that from one champion.gg search?

There are lots of champions who can bully Pantheon out of a lane. But that isn't the point. Panth is a brawler, that means you need to be a good brawler to win. If your idea mainly rests on counter-picking based on a submission website then your play is flawed to begin with.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

You know what's cool about information, is that once you know something you can hopefully adjust for it. Like if I slapped you on the back of the head several times, wouldn't you want to know where I am so that you can avoid getting slapped in the back of the head?

LyingOnLine2 votes

Nah, I already know you have no point and a low I.Q., so I came prepared to ignore you.

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

You wouldn't want to know where I'm at so I don't hit you on the back of the head? Huh?

You can't beat Pantheon if you don't know Pantheon.

But you're right, I.Q., numbers, easy-lists, that's the sign of true conscience. I think you become self-aware when you turn about 13, so you've got a couple more years left until then.

gabetheguy1 votes

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Evil White Man 1 votes

I do agree his laning phase is a little bit ridiculous, but if his early game was nerfed he would need to be compensated in some way, the whole identify of the champion is to have a strong laning phase then snowball. If pantheon does not win lane he loses the game 99% of the time.

LyingOnLine3 votes

He can have his compensation...in the form of taking his 50% win rate and liking it.

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

I do agree his laning phase is a little bit ridiculous, but if his early game was nerfed he would need to be compensated in some way, the whole identify of the champion is to have a strong laning phase then snowball. If pantheon does not win lane he loses the game 99% of the time.

That, by definition, is awful design. It's no different than pre rework Poppy, if it didn't get to late game or she didn't manage to somehow snowball, she lost.

Jinzo Torrance1 votes

I mean, as you said Poppy had a strong lategame if she reached it. Panth doesn't have a strong late game so that's effectively removing him from the game if you do that, you can just nerf Q base damage by 5-25 if you want him to be less oppressive (and he should be nerfed anyways).

HateDaddy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cinquino Show,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=18Z4JdlO,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2017-07-15T02:21:01.357+0000)

I mean, as you said Poppy had a strong lategame if she reached it. Panth doesn't have a strong late game so that's effectively removing him from the game if you do that, you can just nerf Q base damage by 5-25 if you want him to be less oppressive (and he should be nerfed anyways).

thats not good enough. His playstyle offers zero gameplay and counterplay in lane, the same way late game Poppy offered no counterplay. He needs to be nerfed into Poppy tier until his rework happens. If you currently get counterpicked by pantheon, you literally don't get to play the game. Even the strongest lane bullies like Renekton and Swain can be played around, not Pantheon.

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

That's the issue, there's no variance. He's a win-or-lose, feast-or-famine. You win with Pantheon because that precedent was set early on in the game, not because you were toe-to-toe with your enemy. Which not every game needs, but every game with Pantheon needs to not be decided quite so... simply.

Scary Door1 votes

Pantheon needs to be nerfed into unviability similar to pre rework Poppy

I don't know what version of pre-rework Poppy you played, but old Poppy was an absolute monster. Somewhat similar to Jax, once you got Triforce that was the end for your opponents. You could literally build old Poppy ANY way you wanted and dominate. AP Poppy? Totally! AD Poppy? Yes! Bruiser Poppy? Worked fine! Full Tank Poppy? Annoying as Hell.

Poppy had the most miserable laning phase in the game but the moment she got that first time complete then the power spike she had made Yasuo look like a panzy.

As for Pantheon. I'm tired of people saying he "falls off late game", if he man drops into a fight and jumps on ANYONE that isn't a tank, they're dead, period. He's not a great teamfight champ per se, but he still has the ability to delete an assassin, adc or mage in the late game with ease. He just needs a rework, simple as that.

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scary Door,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=18Z4JdlO,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-07-15T01:55:23.264+0000)

I don't know what version of pre-rework Poppy you played, but old Poppy was an absolute monster. Somewhat similar to Jax, once you got Triforce that was the end for your opponents. You could literally build old Poppy ANY way you wanted and dominate. AP Poppy? Totally! AD Poppy? Yes! Bruiser Poppy? Worked fine! Full Tank Poppy? Annoying as Hell.

Poppy had the most miserable laning phase in the game but the moment she got that first time complete then the power spike she had made Yasuo look like a panzy.

As for Pantheon. I'm tired of people saying he "falls off late game", if he man drops into a fight and jumps on ANYONE that isn't a tank, they're dead, period. He's not a great teamfight champ per se, but he still has the ability to delete an assassin, adc or mage in the late game with ease. He just needs a rework, simple as that.

Old poppy was easy as shit to bully out of lane

Shahamut1 votes

Poppy had the most miserable laning phase in the game

I think you missed the part where he acknowledged that very fact...

Malza1 votes

Just pick Singed and kill him lmao

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Just pick Singed and kill him lmao

they banned him tho cuz they haven't adjusted to hot fixes

Malza1 votes

{quoted}

they banned him tho cuz they haven't adjusted to hot fixes

Get high elo so they don't ban Singed, then pick him and kill pantheon

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Get high elo so they don't ban Singed, then pick him and kill pantheon

But they keep banning singed and picking Pantheon so I can't do that

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