Muramana is an old outdated item that needs to be reworked.

xxxMadLionxxx·Aug 21, 2017·16 votes·897 views

The only champ using this item is . The thing is there are a lot of mages who have great single target spells. Mages are also lacking in build path diversity as the first item they all build is .

20% CDR 1000 mana

Passive: On-hit/ Single target spells deal 25-200 magic damage based on stacks. This cannot be proc'd more than 3 times per second or by a single spell cast.

The item has a hard cap prevent the passive from being abused by champs like . It would still be accessible to AD on hit champs while serving a large pool of mages.

11 Comments

TheDangerousTacoAug 21, 20175 votes

Not saying your wrong, but I disagree. The meta determines a lot of things, but it shouldn't determine game design. Manamune still has its uses on a lot of champs ( me personally ) who want it build lategame damage and not sacrifice too much gold early. it also works well on a lot of other adc's but many people are too afraid to try new things.

I personally build manamune on mf, and while people say its crazy to do so, the damage output is insane. I don't think manamune is outadated or overbuffed, its just unique. And I think uniqueness is slowly dying with certain meta strats.

DryninAug 21, 20172 votes

I don't really think the late-game damage is as big as you think though. Completed by itself, it offers 1000 Mana and 45 AD (+2% of whatever your Base mana is at a given level). For AD champions, at level 18, that can get around to about 65 total AD, sure, with no other Mana items, which makes it fairly gold efficient, sure, but there's still better options out there that DON'T make you wait until level 18 to get those kinds of stats.

On top of that, you're talking about a passive on Transformation to Muramana that usually takes until at least Minute 15-20 at the earliest? Even saying you have another Pickaxe to get at the same fold value of your opponent who built I.E., that's likely only about 80 AD you have and 1500 mana. That's only a 10AD advantage, really.

So now, every AA or single-Target spell can deal an extra Average 60 damage? Nice, but that won't continue to scale much past that, as opposed to the Crit builders who WILL continue to scale with more Crit, and more AD.

MF I can see things working with her abilities a bit, because she does have the Lethality build direction, but I don't think it adds enough. Also, if this WAS so effective, then Trinity Force would probably add more for her if her Base AD scaling wasn't one of the worst in the game (for good reason mind you, considering her kit). I'd honestly prefer to throw another 500-700 gold into building Ghostblade or Duskblade over manamune instead.

But really, fixing the item is what we should be thinking about, and the transformed passive should be what makes this worth buying, and that's where I feel the item is kind of confused.

Mana is a stat based on wanting to do sustained damage, but the passive doing damage based on CURRENT Mana is kind of contradictory to that, as the longer you sustain damage, the less damage you do. I think consuming 3% of max mana to deal bonus damage is great for it, but we need to figure out how that damage should be calculated. Right now, its identity is a little confused for that. Or hell, let the bonus damage on here crit, and make a build with E.R. Would actually be kind of interesting. Turn Muramana into a replacement for I.E.

ErockandrollAug 21, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Not saying your wrong, but I disagree. The meta determines a lot of things, but it shouldn't determine game design. Manamune still has its uses on a lot of champs ( me personally ) who want it build lategame damage and not sacrifice too much gold early. it also works well on a lot of other adc's but many people are too afraid to try new things.

I personally build manamune on mf, and while people say its crazy to do so, the damage output is insane. I don't think manamune is outadated or overbuffed, its just unique. And I think uniqueness is slowly dying with certain meta strats.

I'm not sure if were playing the same game if you think it's damage is insane. Awe only offers like %2 of mana as AD, So the item itself with a fully stacked 1000 mana, would only offer 20 AD from the mana on the item, + the 25 from the item itself is 45 AD + 2% of mana from elsewhere. That is by no means a ton of AD by any stretch of the term.

That's on top of the fact that it take time to stack up, and is often not worth compared to the early game pressure from other items. Simply put it, Your early game AD suffers if you need to itemize mana.

Really the idea behind Manamune is to act as a Mana battery and just dish out large amounts of poke. (Which is exactly what Ez does, and why he still uses it) This use to be the case with Jayce, but it's since been discovered that dealing more damage up front, does much more work than constantly poking with a mana battery. This is why Jayce traded that build for a Lethality build. (And everyone hates that he can get away with that.)

The only other way I could imagine getting away with Manamune otherwise, is if you did a weird Bruiser build, (like an ICB build) which stacked even more mana. In either case, it's kinda niche for champions who actually need tons of Mana, which isn't as much for AD champs.

ParoeAug 21, 20173 votes

@thread Muramana toggle just needs to be an on-hit effect scaling with mana that doesnt COST mana.

RainXBladeAug 22, 20171 votes

I remember when Muramana had a toggle effect where you could turn it off for your auto's to restore mana to you and when you turned it on, its effect would be currently what it is.

TimX24968BAug 21, 20172 votes

item 3056 says "get in the back of the line"

WinTheWarOnPantsAug 21, 20172 votes

item 3042 is fine. It's most of the other AD items that are out of line. Unlike all other AD items, Manamune has tradeoffs(weak early, strong late). why would you buy an item that is weak AF early when it's not even as strong late as other AD items that are strong at all points of the game. AD's also hardly ever run out of mana(pretty much no one does) Jayce doesn't even buy this item anymore! item 3042 hasn't changed and its a good reference for the state of the game IMO I used to buy on Evelynn back in the day. It was really risky, but if you managed to stack it, you could out-duel pretty much any champ in the game. Now days, its just plain horrible. You are worthless early still, but even if you manage to stack it you are still worthless AND you are behind. If buy the broke AD items instead like item 3147 item 3078 item 3142 item 3146 (not AD item, but Eve can't buy item 3812 ) you are god early and god late. It's stupid.

egoSniperAug 21, 20171 votes

Yeah, I guess Yorick and Urgot don't need it anymore since their reworks...

Not sure about the design you've proposed here but I agree the item could use some work.

Tarquin96Aug 21, 20171 votes

i tougth it did what it is supposed to do,make ezreal useless til very other adc gets nerfed

Eternal TormentAug 21, 20171 votes

Mages already have Archangel staff for the Tear Build. I would, if already, Keep Muramana an AD Item, but change the stats it offers and possibly also who can build it. Maybe remove the tear, but keep the Sapphire Crystal in it's Build path.

Honestly, i'd Imagine the Item being Something at the likes of this:

item 1027
item 1036 - Into item 3133 item 1037

Stats: 200 Mana, 50 AD, 10% CDR

Costs: 2900 OR 575 End-costs when you purchased all other Build-path items

Unique Passive: ~~Salty Tears~~ Shock: Single-target Spells or AutoAttacks Deal Additionally 10 + (50% Base ad) + (2% Total Mana) Damage and Spends 4% of your Total Mana. Can only Proc once every 1.5 Seconds.

But that's just me tbh, sure this idea needs improvement But if i had to set a foundation for a rework on the item, it would be towards this direction. Keeping it as an Onhit-ad hybrid item but make it slightly more available for other ADC's and also for generally other Champions that Utilize Sheen/Triforce.