An idea on how to change it so Assassins and Adcs aren't able to abuse tank items.

Pyrithegethon··2 votes·506 views

First we have to change base stats around not as to nerf the champs but to work with how items would work.

All champs that are INTENDED bruisers/tanks/tank supports get their base health lowered by around 5-10% but change their hp/level to be around the same as live. Same with armor.

All champs that are intended squishies(Assassins, ADCs, Mages) have their base health jacked up a bit but nerf the scaling so that it is around the same at level 18. Same with armor

Now the item changes start here; all items that are intended and designed for tanky champs are tweaked to scale off the champs base stats per level. Examples below.

X item gives 1000 health on live server before these changes. After the changes, X item gives 500 health+30% of champs hp/level multiplied by their current level, capping at 500 bonus health.(say they are level 10 and gain 100 health per level, at level 10 they gain 300 health. At level 18 they would gain 540 bonus health on the item. This is for a champ the item is intended for

Now say we try that with a champ that is intended to be a squishy. The champs hp/level would be far lower and gain less of a benefit. Say the hp/level of said champ is 70. At level 10 they have 700 health from hp/level and 30% of that is 210. At level 18 they would have 1260 health and 30% of that is 378 if my math is correct. That is 122 less health from the item.

Now if we try armor, say Thornmail. It gives 100 armor right now and is pretty strong if you stack armor(which isn't bad). You could change the armor to give 70 armor and bonus armor based on armor/level up to 30 bonus armor.

If it's a bad idea then meh, just want to add to discussion.

9 Comments

Critmaster Garen2 votes

base health changes dont prevent people from building more or less tanky. what allowed assassins, and certain marksmen to build bruiser items was the fact that they either have too much inbuilt damage, or they didnt lose out on enough ad by building steraks compared to bruisers.

if you want to pevent assassins from building bruiser items, make all their abilities scale off bonus ad, instead of total ad. lower the base damage on said abilities.

no more free % missing health damage for fizz on his w. make the % value scale with ap. so the ability deals damage for assassin fizz, but doesnt do shit for bruiser fizz.

maybe completely remove ad/lvl scaling on assassins, melee adc and marksmen. buff ad items slightly to compensate.

change bruiser items to scale off base ad, like steraks.

this would probably warrant a slight sheen rework. not its functionality. just an adjustment to how the sheen proc scales. a mix of damage/lvl + lower base ad scaling would probably make the most sense.

Leeerzeichen1 votes

You can't remove all the base damage from a champion who relies on getting an early kill, if his opponents still have huge base numbers.

Base damage as a whole is way to impactfull right now, because almost every offensive item has less ap/ad and is more expensive than before. Why should I buy 6 expensive offensive item to double my damage instead of buying 6 cheap defensive items to get 3-4 times as tanky as before?

Ralanr1 votes

There's killing and there is CSing. Enough farm should make kills pointless.

Leeerzeichen1 votes

Fizz is a pure melee and has limited waveclear. If he can't fight his opponent he will fall behind in farm.

Ralanr1 votes

His waveclear is pretty fine past a certain point.

Leeerzeichen1 votes

His e has a 130 mana cost and puts him into the face of his enemy without escape. Not exactly a good idea against a opponent you can't fight.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

You can't remove all the base damage from a champion who relies on getting an early kill, if his opponents still have huge base numbers.

Base damage as a whole is way to impactfull right now, because almost every offensive item has less ap/ad and is more expensive than before. Why should I buy 6 expensive offensive item to double my damage instead of buying 6 cheap defensive items to get 3-4 times as tanky as before?

if base damage scaling was removed for certain classes, you would have even less of a reason to go defensive than offensive.

an assassin who has 60 ad at level 18, due to no base ad scaling, and with bonus ad scaling on his abilities would literally be worthless. he would contribute nothing but a large hp pool. which would exactly be the goal.

i did propose to buff ad item values in return to reach the same lategame ad values.

but bruiser items like frozen mallet, cleaver and titanic hydra would scale off base ad instead of bonus ad. which wouldnt factor into the assassins spells, and be generally pretty terrible on these champions.

imagine an assassin or marksman at lvl 18 and 60 base ad with steraks. it would give like 15 ad.

titanic hydra would also increase something like 25% base ad. which would give said assassin 15 ad that doesnt factor into spells, and a bruiser around to 30 and 35 ad that would factor into spells due to total ad scaling.

Leeerzeichen1 votes

And how should an assassin survive the early and midgame against other classes? Lets image there would be an assassin with this q damage: 50 + 2.0 ap (<--- consider that this is a really overtuned ap ratio) and a tank with this q damage: 80/125/170/215/260 + 0.70 ap (tham kench). And even with this ridiculous high ap ratio the assassin still needs 162 ap (~1.5 items) to get more damage than tham kench, but tham kench usually builds tank items instead of ap. So he needs even more ap to do the same damage. And if you cant fight the tank early game, you fall behind and you get less gold -> you need even longer to reach your powerspike.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

And how should an assassin survive the early and midgame against other classes? Lets image there would be an assassin with this q damage: 50 + 2.0 ap (<--- consider that this is a really overtuned ap ratio) and a tank with this q damage: 80/125/170/215/260 + 0.70 ap (tham kench). And even with this ridiculous high ap ratio the assassin still needs 162 ap (~1.5 items) to get more damage than tham kench, but tham kench usually builds tank items instead of ap. So he needs even more ap to do the same damage. And if you cant fight the tank early game, you fall behind and you get less gold -> you need even longer to reach your powerspike.

i was talking about ad assassins and bruiser items (ad/health) specifically.

ap assassins would lose out on some utility like ekko, or someone like fizz would get % missing health damage value changed to ap scaling so he doesnt get damage without building items. because thats usually what leads to brusier builds being more effective.

fizz shouldnt have a problem against tahm since he has more outplay potential. he can work by kiting through minions and with his trollpole. he should be able to survive the lane phase on those abilities alone.

ad assassins would survive by buying ad items from the farm they got. which would provide slightly more ad in return for the few ad missing on the level scaling base value.

More from Gameplay

More by Pyrithegethon