"how do you win against yasuo/fizz/zed/___ if you don't have CC?"

Marshbouy··20 votes·2,161 views

You don'tvery very rarely do. You pick a team with a moderate amount of CC like you always should, if you have a team with 0 CC, that's your fault, not the champion design team.

EDIT: This is a thread that is commenting on how people complain about a champion not being able to be beaten by CCless teams, i'm not actually asking you for tips. I thought that was obvious but apparently not.

60 Comments

Astôlfo10 votes

It's still possible, just very unlikely and hard as hell, like it should be. Good thread. +1

LU Vanilla Rice 5 votes

Um, you can beat them by outplaying them. :D

Marshbouy3 votes

you would be hard pressed to outplay a skilled zed without CC....

LU Vanilla Rice 1 votes

Depending on the matchup. As well, Zed should have no kill pressure pre-6 as long as you play smart. And he can be bullied out fairly easily. CC becomes an issue post-6, but if you're ahead by a fair amount at that point in time (which you should be at least slightly ahead) then you can beat him.

Marshbouy3 votes

How the fucking hell are you supposed to build up a big enough lead on a zed to nullify his level 6 powerspike in fucking 6 minutes?

Snowplosion1 votes

You kill him two are three times and get a Zhoyna's by then. It happens... rarely...

Marshbouy1 votes

Very. Very. Very rarely.

Snowplosion1 votes

Shit happens. I have seen it all.

LU Vanilla Rice 1 votes

Calm down, it's quite possible. You can harass him, deny cs, force him to use summoners. You can also make him back early on and lose wave control/cs/pressure.

Marshbouy1 votes

If it's a crappy zed then that's possible. But a not crappy zed will easily just sit back, farm with Qs and AAs under tower and wait until level 6.

Marshbouy1 votes

Not to mention building up a significant XP or gold lead in 6 minutes is almost impossible unless they are DC

LU Vanilla Rice 1 votes

So first off, even if it's not a crappy Zed, you can do stuff too. No need to push the wave; and he can't farm with q's if he's not in range. As well, even when Zed is 6, you can still outplay him!

Tyto Mors1 votes

skilled FIZZ, even without ult.

skilled talon

akali 50/50 chance

skilled yas, even without knock up.(well depending on which part of game, early he can use zed to dash away and block shurikens with wall, late game he hits him 3 times and 2 Q's and walls shurikens)

skilled veig can ult and dark matter(i dont play veig, skill that falls from sky) and his farming tool. boom, like any assassin/adc is dead, if he doesnt stun veig will probably die tho.

Nymzo1 votes

{quoted}

Any FIZZ, even without ult.

Fixed that for you

Tyto Mors1 votes

that is probably true, fucking hate that champ.

CIickTheLantern3 votes

I find zed pretty easy to bait his w into a gank for a couple easy kills, as for fizz and yas, just ban them. Riot likes their toxic kits.

Marshbouy11 votes

The point of the post . . . you

CIickTheLantern1 votes

{quoted}

The point of the post . . . you

OK dude, go beat fizz or yas with zero CC.

Marshbouy4 votes

I reiterate The point of the post . . . you

CIickTheLantern1 votes

{quoted}

I reiterate The point of the post . . . you

I reiterate Go beat yasuo or fizz with no CC.

Astôlfo4 votes

That's not the point of the thread.

Mecha MaIphite4 votes

You and your team deserve to lose if you have zero CC in any situation.

Niyumi3 votes

If a champion is so broken that you literally cannot fight them unless you entirely prevent them from doing anything, then how is that considered healthy and fair?

Marshbouy7 votes

Let me rephrase what you said

If you cannot deal with a champion via it's biggest counter, then you suck at league

TwinkiePro5 votes

Well, CC is everyone's biggest counter, so how does that count? Very few champions actually prevent cc, like fiora, or negate a portion of it, like irelia.

AceBlack1 votes

Instead of explaining what has already been explained several hundreds of times, why don't you do a little experiment to find the answer?

Next game you go into, play a champ with a lot of cc like Nautilus or Leona . Find the squishiest champion on the team, someone like Vayne and the tankiest, someone like Amumu .

Now every teamfight, use all your cc on that tanky champion while leaving none for the squishy champion.

See how effective you are in a teamfight when you chain cc the tank. Then get back to this thread.

TwinkiePro2 votes

That's not an effective scenario. If amumu hops onto my carry, the best thing to do is peel, or in another words, CC him. It's also dependant on whether its a full blown teamfight or a small skirmish of 2v2, how late in the game it is, and who is the most fed. If my ADC is caitlyn and its somewhat early in the game, im going to keep amumu off, because by doing so, she output much more damage from a safer range than Vayne. If my ADC is lucian, I will attack the vayne, as lucian holds a good chance of fighting either of them with my help, not to mention I would pose too great a threat to vayne that amumu would need to peel to keep me off.

So, once again, CC is everyone's counter. Saying to pick and choose your target is core on most any champ. It's far more complicated than a cut and dry scenario lacking substance.

AceBlack1 votes

So now that you've successfully stunlocked amumu, what do you think is going to happen to your team when you have a 6 item Vayne unning around unchecked?

TwinkiePro1 votes

Well now you've given a more fleshed out scenario, but you also literally didn't give a word to my entire post. Since I am a respectful person, I will at least give you my time and read what little you have written.

But I have questions for this scenario:

  1. Who else is on my team?
  2. Who is on the enemy team?
  3. Where is this fight taking place? Center top? Center mid? Jungle?
  4. Is everyone full build? Vayne will have the upper hand regardless, and positioning of her to my teammates is fairly crucial information.

You seem to be under the assumption that I believe CC affects everyone equally. You obviously didn't read my original post correctly as I explicitly stated that CC is everyone's biggest weakness. Try reading that again and stop assuming the wrong thing. Hopefully you'll read this one and actually give your thoughts rather than completely skipping it and continuing with your train of thought with no second thoughts to my own.

Marshbouy1 votes

CC is going to effect a Zed far greater than a full tankNautilus . I thought this was basic information but i guess not.

TwinkiePro1 votes

Sure, but is CC still going to affect naut?

CC has a stronger impact on squishies for sure, but is naut not at all weak to cc? If vayne condemns him against a wall in a 1v1 scenario, does he not stand a chance? Were vayne to not condemn, he can usually pull away.

Marshbouy1 votes

But nautilus is much tankier giving him time to hook away since he doesn't get blown up instantaneously. A full AD zed on the other hand would be killed in about 2 autos.

GULAG 4 U3 votes

inb4 this thread becomes a yasuo qq

JustMonika133 votes

{quoted}

inb4 this thread becomes a yasuo qq

We all know it's going to happen, because people can't be pressed to take CC in pretty much all games, let alone games where there's an Assassin/Skirmisher that will go wild if allowed to.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

But being good at yasuo also cancels CC! Windwall has no downtime and has no cooldown! IT ALSO LASTS FOR FOREVER AND FORCES YOU TO FIRE EVERYTHING AT IT!

It's impossible to cc yasuo!

JustMonika131 votes

{quoted}

But being good at yasuo also cancels CC! Windwall has no downtime and has no cooldown! IT ALSO LASTS FOR FOREVER AND FORCES YOU TO FIRE EVERYTHING AT IT!

It's impossible to cc yasuo!

People can't be pressed to fire their CC projectiles at Yasuo mid dash either, because, you know, it's not like Yasuo's literately the only champion whose dash is canceled by ALL CC and not just airborne effects like other dashes.

Hell, the moment Yasuo is first picked, everyone on the enemy team from then on needs to get projectile-based CC, because non-projectile CC isn't good at all.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

And then they QQ on the boards proceeding to say "He's cancer" "He has no counterplay"

Sure, vayne top would like to have a word with you too.

JustMonika135 votes

{quoted}

And then they QQ on the boards proceeding to say "He's cancer" "He has no counterplay"

Sure, vayne top would like to have a word with you too.

In general, ranged tops are pretty annoying //hides any evidence of Quinn top

YumaS2Astral3 votes

To be honest, crowd control in general win games. Every champion is negatively affected in some way by CC (yes, even Irelia cannot deal with enemies that can chain CC her). There is just no reason at all to build CC-less teams, except 1) if it is a game for fun and you just want to have fun picking what you want rather than what will get you a win - that is, if you don't want to pick CC champs, of course / 2) if you want to make an early game focused team - if you do that though, make sure that you actually snowball early and win, and bear in mind that this will not work against skilled opponents.

That's the reason why I always try to pick the champions with the most CC possible that still do the most damage possible. That's why I play Malphite a lot of time. I don't consider myself to be a Malphite main, but I play him because of 1) he is an incredibly safe pick, Malphite is not a bad pick most of time unless the enemy team has 4/3 APs, and even then his ult can still be game changing - 2) he can build full tank and still do incredible amounts of damage because of his insane bases, and the fact that his damage scales with his armor, not to mention the amount of armor items that give damage item 3068 item 3075 item 3025 3) he may not be as CC heavy as other tanks like Nautilus or Maokai or even Zac but he still has CC, he can buy an Iceborn Gauntlet to add a slow to his list of CCs, and his ult is pretty game changing, one of the best CCs in the entire game, I generally build him with 40% CDR to make this ult avaliable as much times as possible due to this reason.

That's why old Fiora was constantly criticized, she did a lot of damage but was lacking in CC and utility. She couldn't make up for that, so she would fall behind if she couldn't do damage to enemies. She was also snowbally as hell. New Fiora may not be the massive damage monster that she was before, but she makes up for that with better dueling power and utility. And she actually has a CC, albeit one that is incredibly situtional.

Not speaking of specific champions, crowd control in general wins a lot of games. If you manage to CC the damage dealers on the enemy team, you are taking their main damage source and there is nothing they can do - and tenacity/item 3139 will not help if they you chain CC them (which is why it is best to have as much CC as possible on your team). The problem in low elo games is that most people cannot take advantage of that because just having CC is not enough, you also need to make sure that you can coordinate with your team and that they know how to follow up, but if you manage to do that, you are almost guaranteed to win because of the sheer utility that CC can bring to a team.

The Boring Nerd2 votes

If you want to counter all melee mid laners, get Lissandra , her CC and chase is unbelievable, she also has an ult that makes her invulnerable and stuns the enemy also.

The Deckowner1 votes

it isn't a real stun, it doesn't inturrupt channels.

Catastrop2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Boring Nerd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0vxmARHW,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-09-23T00:25:24.840+0000)

If you want to counter all melee mid laners, get Lissandra

Hah, this is just not true. Karma does a way better job at countering melee champions.

The Boring Nerd2 votes

{quoted}

Hah, this is just not true. Karma does a way better job at countering melee champions.

Well, let's just say both of them counter melee champs, because it's true anyways.

420 grams2 votes

Pick Cho gath.

SSmotzer2 votes
General Esdeath 2 votes

I remember I was once first pick and took Riven top, then my team complained I didn't take a tank and now we had no tank. Not sure why the support or jungle didn't take one.

Just how LoL people are, never picking what's needed when they should.

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

As a katarina main, I personally feel like it's really easy to beat yasuo. Just max w first then you destroy him

GULAG 4 U1 votes

But people need to qq instead of git gud

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

name a champ and I'll tell you the plan

any champ

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Kha'zix

Jk just faceroll yasuo to death.

as lane master yi.

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