When a champion's only way of being shut down perminently is to win the game before they scale to OP

JavelinJoe··1 votes·669 views

This is 100% bad champion design. Every single game has a potential of ending quickly. But that likely hood is not great. Champions who have strong or at least average early games who scale ludicrously well into the late, even if they were completely shit on in the laning phase (looking at you Veigar Illaoi and Gangplank) have an unfair advantage over the rest of the champions. 100% guaranteed that any game can and will eventually reach the late game if a quick and early victory can be avoided. If you are not dominating by 15-20 minutes, your looking at a game time of around 35-40+ minutes, well past the point where early game champions have started to fall off and late game champs are turning on. But when a champion has a strong early (lane bullies especially do) and they scale well into the late game with only slight fall off here and there, we start to see issues.

League does not stop mid game where once you reach a certain level you cant progress until X time has been reached. A little oddly worded, but basically Since time goes on and players do not regress champion builds and scaling, every minute passed is 1 minute gained in strength by the late game scaling champions and 1 minute lossed in strength by the early game champs.

Another way of looking at this is that it is up to the early game champions to win the game before X time is reached. All the late game scaling champs have to do is hold out, which is by far easier since time is on your side.

My point being that these late game scaling champions, who also have strong laning phases (early game), need to have something implemented to lessen one of those 2, either the early or late game. When a champion is strong 100% throughout the game, by design, and not by player skill, they are fundamentally unfair for League of Legends. This being because League of Legends has put so much into these game time power areas (early, mid and late) where almost all of the champions have their areas of strength and weakness. It is the exceptions which are the issue and cause the most problems.

12 Comments

archerno17 votes

Illaoi? Wut? She is useless late. She doesnt even scale. Her only power is early...

specter4242 votes

I wouldnt say she is a late game monster like the other 2 but she definitely scales.

archerno13 votes

{quoted}

I wouldnt say she is a late game monster like the other 2 but she definitely scales.

Scales? Wut u talking about? She doesnt have any scaling at all...

Restless Slumber2 votes

Yea, Illaoi's power falls off when people start picking up armor. She also can't teamfight for shit because of how easy it is to kite her. Don't get why she's there either.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

she can teamfight with her aoe damage so no...

Astôlfo1 votes

Or any half-intelligent team would just bait her ult and then either back off and make her feel dumb and useless, or alternatively, just CC and kill her in 2 seconds or so between the ADC with armorpen/shred and Executioner's for GW and damage from the rest of the team. But then again, this OP isn't very logical, so I don't expect much.

JavelinJoe1 votes

What I meant by here is that she can always be strong even if behind. yes her kit is kite-able, but if you are in any team fight where she can land 2 or 3 slams with her ult, most squishes would end up chunked or just plain killed. Also, while she only has slows in her own kit, most teams have at least 1 or 2 member with some great hard CC like a stun, knock up or snare, in which landing that combo is very easy. She also is able to go decently tanky while maintaining decent damage. Armor does lessen her damage, but also, since she deals more ability damage than basic, items like item 3075 item 3047 and item 3143 do not apply their passives on her.

Astôlfo1 votes

Um... She shouldn't be landing 2-3 Slams with her ult in the first place if your team is half intelligent. And her only slow is if she manages to either kill the Spirit or they sever the tether themselves. Which means she has to land the E in the first place. And her entire kit is physical damage, armor still helps a ton.

JavelinJoe1 votes

2-3 slams on the ult (hitting multiple targets to spawn multiple tentacles), not over time is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion. And at least in my ELO range, her E is not too hard to land. I don't know about the higher up ELOs though. And yes, armor does help quite a bit. However she can build item 3071 and, if going a more AD heavy based build, maybe a item 3156 or item 3142 to help cut through some of it at least.

Astôlfo2 votes

lmao what

Veigar's early is pretty much just him ignoring the enemy laner and stacking his Q. Illaoi's pre-6 is ass unless you're just a blithering fool who has no clue what to do or how to dodge skillshots. Her post-6 is still ass if you actually know what to do and don't fight her inside her ult like a blithering fool. Gangplank's early is decently strong but that's just because the Bandit interaction with his Q is stupid.

Veigar and GP are late game hypercarries. Illaoi... are you joking?

Veigar is not a lane bully, what are you smoking? Illaoi and GP are lane bullies. But Illaoi falls off late incredibly hard if your team is actually half-intelligent. GP is just GP like he's always been.

And no, that's entirely inaccurate. Lategame hypercarries almost all have weak early games. Vayne for instance. Champions with strong early games can just bully the hell out of them so much that they're absolutely worthless and just end the game before it gets any farther.

Veigar's early is not strong unless you think Nasus' early is strong too lmfao. Illaoi is worthless against a team that actually knows what to do against her. Gangplank is problematic but he's gotten drastic nerfs, so your complaints are still irrelevant.

Quit whining and learn how to play against them. Even in late game, they're still nowhere close to unbeatable. They're just a lot better than in early. Sure, Veigar has his cage. Bait it out. Or you know, just get QSS. Or just jump on him and kill him anyways. "hurdur illowweee ulterd lets all fight inside her ult because that's totes smart" Mmk. "hurdur geepee does a barrel, lets just watch and not kill the barrel" Mmk. His barrels are his only AoE damage source outside of his ult, and considering the fact you have at least one ranged always on your team (ADC), it really shouldn't be problematic unless the GP is a professional at said champion. And you're not ever going to play against someone that good, so don't worry.

Matezoide1 votes

Sounds like every hard carry ever.

bloodybadger11 votes

Hello?

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