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It seems to me like off-meta picks are becoming harder to win with.

JavelinJoe··8 votes·677 views

Is anyone else thinking this? For example, if I wanted to say, play Bard ADC, it is pretty hard to even contest evenly now. I remember when off-meta picks were some what alright, where they might be slightly disadvantaged, but still could pull through with just a small bit of effort. But now it seems like these unusual off-meta picks are basically guaranteed to lose you the game unless you have 100+ games on said champion and a duo to help you with it. Especially for the jungle. Having to take smite and harder jungle monsters with an almost requirement to gank early and often makes things really, really limited as to champion options. I remember when Karthus could Jungle for a small time and have success about 40-50% of the time. GL doing that now when you will just become cannon fodder to invades, roams, and relentless counter-jungling because Karthus kinda sucks at ganking in the early game.

Is this something other players are noticing or is this just me?

13 Comments

NinjaGuy695 votes

ADC Bard is a troll pick, not an Off-META pick. Stop trying to conflate troll picks with legitimate Off-META picks.

Sohleks3 votes

Depends what you mean by off meta.

I find jungle Tryndamere and Teemo still highly effective and that's not meta

But if you pick something that's obviously worse of course it's worse

But yes jungle isn't as open as it used to be and the playerbases' skills have matured at all ranks

Going more in depth these mass rework sprees have "tilled" the champion pool so that the playerbase has re-explored them thoroughly or Riot fit them more into a very specific modern meta peg

PePsiLemoNN3 votes

Urgot Aatrox Diana DrMundo etc are off-meta

Bard ADC is ...

If you play a champion that was meant to be a support as ADC why do you expect to be as effective as an actual ADC?

JavelinJoe1 votes

I don't expect it to be as effective. But it use to be where you could run mild to extremely off-meta and have success a few times, like 4/10 games you would. Mind you success in this case is less that you dominated the laning phase or anything, it is more like you did not feed your ass off or anything and managed to actually contribute to your teams win. RIOT use to have a motto where "every champion could be played anywhere and have moderate success". But lately that seems to have been completely thrown out the window.

_Also, Bard ADC was just a random example. _

Handy Sandy 2 votes

doesn't Karthus have strong ganks early game since his wall takes up half the lane for an almost guaranteed slow and some of the highest early game ap DPS

off meta picks can still work as long as u know how to play the champion

JavelinJoe1 votes

His mana costs are awful for in the jungle without blue buff. But his wall is not as big rank 1 and the slow is only a minor inconvenience since it decays back to full speed, starting at 40%. It is a slow, but not a great one, especially if you miss which is not as hard as you may think when you have no gap closer mobility and your target does. Damage is also not that good there when used on multi-target hits.

To be honest, the better reason is that what he offers, is nothing compared to what a champion like LeeSin Gragas Elise or Khazix can in terms of early game pressure which means her just falls behind.

Emerald Fang1 votes

ADC thresh is probably the only very off-meta pick that can work Bot, but you need a good support and because of autofilled that never happens unless you're a pre made.

But yeah mid lane is restricted to 5-6 champs. I can't play veigar in that many games because every bronze game mid is fizz or talon or zed or something that can avoid my spells 100% of the time, or it's lux or orianna, which is great but my jungle doesn't think it's as important to gank so I lose anyway. . Top as well. Jungle is either Lee sin, khazix, or yi (if you're in bronze or silver). There aren't many ADC's and I see a variety of them.

Handy Sandy 1 votes

But yeah mid lane is restricted to 5-6 champs.

Ahri Anivia Ekko Fizz Heimerdinger Karma Kassadin Orianna Syndra Zed Talon Yasuo are all strong atm, only in like lcs is it limited to just a couple champions.

JavelinJoe1 votes

There aren't many ADC's and I see a variety of them.

Lol, that is likely because RIOT seems to enjoy having 4-5 of them be completely unplayable and the rest more or less split into two groups of interchangeability. Either they scale late but have some early game utility, or they dominate the early-mid game to the point where you won't likely ever see past 35 minutes because you will win from them snowball 75% of the time.

Players usually have either preference. I for example like the scaling champions like Jinx, Jhin, and Kalista. But I suck at Lucian, Vayne, and Caitlyn because I never play them. I have not seen though Corki Quinn Tristana Sivir Kalista in almost nay of my games. Occasionally I will see the one remaining player it seems who just only plays this one ADC champion, but that is pretty rare.

SirLapse1 votes

It's not just you. Essentially since Riot is enforcing what's good rather than what's bad, a lot of off-meta picks slowly lose viability. You need certain strengths to be brought to the table now instead of just general player knowledge. Part of that is due to the growth in player skill, and the other part is how Riot can't balance every champion's successful off-role, because at times the champion will be vastly better on their off-role compared to their main role (i.e. Diana). That can sometimes shift what lane the champ even belongs in because it can be very unbalanced to fight against. I remember top lane Raka, true cancer.

We still see things like Sona mid from time to time, but the vast majority of off-meta picks are not really expected to do well. So add in potential to get flamed and uncertain laning phase, well...it's all downhill from there. I'm hoping runes in the future will stop this, but it's not likely that they'll do much unless base stats across the board become really similar. "Anyone can be a Marksman if they have this keystone" type of deal.

Aeszarck1 votes

I don't think there's anything wrong with Karthus jungle right now. He still has the same weaknesses he always had but that does not mean he is completely unviable. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6bf387/karthus_jg_79_healthy_350_clear_with_no_pots_or/ is a recent very popular thread showing how to clear the jungle as Karthus. He's still pretty good!

All those issues you pointed out have always been issues with Karthus jungle. He is not good against counterjunglers in the early game and his ganks are mediocre. On the other hand, he's a good farmer and excellent in the late game, so he works just like Master Yi works.

JavelinJoe1 votes

I agree, his issues are the same as back then, but the issue is not with him. It is with how the game has progressed into a quicker, more aggressive playstyle. Junglers who need to farm for extended periods of time tend to not be very successful (at least not typically, though exceptions like Yi do exist). And RIOT's continuous attempt to shorten game times seem to just be pushing that playstyle, of farm until 6 or so, further and further away. We are seeing champions get redesigned so that they have impact pre 6. WW is a good example of this. He use to have to get his ult before he could seriously start to roam around and gank lanes. Now he can gank pre 6 with good success.

Also, he needs blue buff. Makes him an easy target for invades.

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