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Crit Chance is too powerful of a stat to remain RNG

Hibeki··50 votes·3,797 views

Im sorry. It just is.

Its so unhealthy for the game. In a snowball meta where gold leads and item leads are fckin everywhere, the fact that theres a chance to achieve an even higher powerspike of items you dont have is just stupid

theres no outplay potential here.

Lets say you are ahead in items, and you bought item 3087 item 3031

If you are versing, lets say, your NATURAL COUNTER, an assassin They have item 3147 item 3134 . If you crit three times in a row (which is common at 50%) you basically just had a momentary powerspike of 4 items. You had 100% crit chance with half the required items.

So just because of the build path, that fight you were 3 items ahead of the enemy, despite your play only leading to half an item.

The worst part is, this isnt reliable either. Its not predictable. So its just massive powerspikes that come at random intervals that can make or break points of the game. Nobody can do this an expect the same result, and the assassin (who again is your natural counter) cant expect you to have this happen or expect you to not get any crits.

It's dumb. Theres no outplay potential here. And in a snowball meta, you can get 3 item powerspikes in an instant and theres nothing the opponent can do about.

50% chance means nothing. 3 crits in a row and 3 none crits doesnt matter, because the enemy is already dead.

Make this % damage on auto attacks instead and I GUARANTEE adcs will be less oppressive early game.

114 Comments

DaNinad17 votes

Wait so an ADC who has 6000g of items shouldn't be able to 1v1 one assassin who's 2000 gold behind?

Hibeki7 votes

Considering assassin is:

The natural counter

Designed to eliminate single enemies quickly and efficiently

adc is supposed to be 'weak' early to mid game

adc's are the most vulnerable class in the game

Absolutely not

DaNinad19 votes

An adc with a SEVEN kill gold advantage should not be able to 1v1 an assassin. Alright.

Divewing5 votes

Given the assassin probably has an xp/level lead, and has a kit that is designed to burst hard, no. The ADC still should not win that barring massive outplays

Velzard of Koz7 votes

Outplays? I picked a champion that counters you in champ select, you can't 1v1 me now. What an outplay. 2000 IQ playz. LCS gaming. Rock Paper Scissors tacticz.

Also seven kill gold advantage -> and the Assasin still somehow must have xp/level lead. Yeah, surely...

LordGeovanni1 votes

except that never comes into play because 2 crits can come out in less than 1 second and melt all of an assassins health bar unless they build into defense which is exactly what adcs used to have to do to survive assassins until they complained that it wasnt fair and got nearly every other class in the game nerfed so they could enjoy max hp and innate defense buffs

HungryJack6192 votes

There's an easy way to settle this. Get a friend, make a custom game where one of you gets an adc and the other an assassin, farm out the jungle until you're equal levels with ONLY those two items, then 1v1 and watch the adc win.

Skins Project5 votes

Not rlly a fair representation.

Point of assassins in most case is to kill you before you can really react too much. E.G. Get the jump on em.

Eternal7911 votes

I'd say for the scenario where the ADC has a 7 kill lead on the Assassin, this is a perfect representation. If the ADC has a 7 kill lead, obviously the Assassin wasn't making his/her life very hard.

Skins Project1 votes

Re-read the message I was replying to..

They were saying = gold not whatever else.

Troll for Trump1 votes

These days you don't even need to be ahead of the assassin to survive and kill them.

LordGeovanni1 votes

No. They should have a chance to 1v1 but not automaticly win.

Psi2115 votes

{quoted}

If you crit three times in a row (which is common at 50%) you basically just had a momentary powerspike of 4 items.

Yeah.... No....

the game uses a system called pseudo random distribution to calculate critical strikes, essentialy the way it works is your % chance for a crit to occur starts out lower than what your crit chance is suppose to be, you gain crit chance every time a crit doesnt happen, and lose crit every time a crit does occur, this leads to a lower chance to crit twice in a row, and loweres you chance to go into crit "droughts".

an article can be found here http://www.create-games.com/article.asp?id=1957

an example of pseudo random distribution in action is lets say you have a 20% chance to crit. on the first swing your chance is acutaly adjusted to 5.57% behind the scenes. if a crit does not occur your chance rises to 11.14% if nothing still it increases again to 16.71%, and again to 22.28%, 27.85%, 33.42 and so on and so forth, when a crit does occur you drop back down to 5.57% and the whole thing starts over. the average is still 20% but your chances of back to back crits are or long periods with no crits is significantly lower.

Hibeki2 votes

I sincerely doubt this is the case. Ive stopped playing crit based ADC's entirely because of the horrible luck streaks i get.

And I dont mean typical bad luck. I mean 7 hits no crits with a 50/50, and dont fucking tell me its not possible because I know it is. If my crit RNG was consistent id still be playing them.

There is absolutely no point in a pseudo RNG system, its just shit behind the scenes that messes with gameplay. I see enemy adc's every fucking minute get back to back or back to back to back crits at 50% so this is totally common.

You want RNG? Add 'true' percentage (if its true that they use pseudo, which I doubt) and enforce a strict limit.

With the limit, there IS a source of counterplay (Albeit a bad one) where you can track their hits.

For instance, a 50/50 would mean that they are guaranteed on and off crits. One on, one off, never differentiating.

30 would be 1 every 3, and so on.

People can memorize the numbers for each total percentage and track them accordingly.

you CAN keep crit the way it is and not have it be RNG. Theres no reason NOT to unless they clearly know its a crooked and broken system but wont change it.

HungryJack6198 votes

As a Tryndameresummoner 11 main, I would abuse the fuck out of that system. Fighting birds, I would be able to intentionally rotate my crits so as not to waste them where a non-crit AA would be enough for the last-hit. Same goes for golems and wolves. When I'm sitting pretty at 95% crit chance you bet I would smack some creep until a get a non-crit just to have 19 crits stored up for a teamfight. Especially when my E cd reduces every time I score a crit, I would be able to use my attack speed to calculate exactly when my E comes off cd, instead of it being semi-random.

Sightless661 votes

That system would not keep crit the way it is. It would have the same dps, but would put a huge focus on crit-poking, basically giving every adc a version of Cait's passive. That majorly changes gameplay.

A better way to accomplish what you want is to make each point of crit increase autoattack damage by 1%. This would give you the exact same dps as the current system, and doesn't create any new perverse gameplay incentives like your stack-counting system would.

Hibeki1 votes

Of course it does, but it also gives a major source of counterplay and controlled burst.

Caitlyn's passive is known an controlled, she will give up cs and get a nice big hit, or cs and waste it. This is known. No reason why it cant be the same

Sightless661 votes

No reason why it cant be the same

The reason why it can't be the same is because it massively overgeneralizes champions. We don't need or want ADCs to be more like Caitlyn across the board. We don't need to introduce a major mechanic that warps gameplay. We don't need to encourage stack-based poking for every single adc.

If I want that gameplay, I'll play Caitlyn. I don't want or need it when I'm playing other champions.

A major advantage of crit in its current state is that it is playstyle-neutral. It doesn't try to force champions to play similarly; it just requires autoattacks. Your system takes that and chucks it out the window. It would work much better for a longer-ranged ADC going for one-off pokes than it would for a shorter-ranged carry going for opportunistic fights. For a stat designed to be the single main stat for an entire class, that kind of incentive is absolutely terrible.

it also gives a major source of counterplay and controlled burst.

Counterplay is not worth generalizing gameplay, and controlled burst is something we don't need crit to have. We just need it to be a source of dps, and we can leave the counterplay to each champion's individual kit.

Make crit a 1% increase to autoattack damage per point. It doesn't create any perverse incentives, and fixes all the rng problems that crit currently has.

Hibeki2 votes

ADC's as a class are already completely overgeneralized. They all do the same thing

Ok sure but why1 votes

I've seen people with the 1% crit rune crit twice in a row before

Blackstone013 votes

Pseudo random still is random, just a bit more controlled. Critting with a 1% doesn’t make the next chance 0% in a pseudo-random system.

kaironen9 votes

How are you able to crit 3 times in a row if an assassin is able to to kill you before you are able to react though :P. Crit chance should be changed since ADCs do too much damage right now but adcs in general aren't completely broken and crit chance doesn't make them 3 shot everything at mid game. The only thing they should do before they change how it works is to increase the costs of the crit items to make them less of a mid game spike.

Hibeki3 votes

Because assassins actually take a decent amount of time to kill you early in the game and half the adc's just get shit loads of attack speed

JavelinJoe7 votes

Sad Jhin is sad

Skorch7 votes

"shit loads of attack speed" "2 item power spike" [sg-lux-2]

Quepha7 votes

{quoted}

If you crit three times in a row (which is common at 50%)

Wrong.

Hibeki2 votes

no its correct. 1/8 chance is not uncommon.

Quepha7 votes

That's not how crit works in this game.

Glu10Sensitivity5 votes

{quoted}

That's not how crit works in this game.

didn't riot release some statement that crit is definitely a modified rng? like it said if u haven't had a crit in a while it ups ur chances (because stats usually work on super large numbers of trials rather than like 10 auto attacks) until u do and then ducks ur chances after a crit so it feels like u have crits at a noticeable rate that is representative in a small number of trials?

I dunno if I'm just imagining it but I could have sworn I read it somewhere...

Quepha4 votes

Yes, that's how crit works in the game, meaning the odds of 3 crits in a row with 50% crit chance is FAR LESS than 12.5%.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

That's not how crit works in this game.

Yes every time he crits the next chance for his crit drops and opposite

BUT IT DOESNT FKING DROP TO 0

you can crit 3 times in a row even with 30%. Seen it happen

Quepha4 votes

{quoted}

BUT IT DOESNT FKING DROP TO 0

Never said it did. Never implied it did.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

no its correct. 1/8 chance is not uncommon.

For fucks sake. Not only is is not pure random cause Riot, afraid of real random and players permabitching, made it so the chance to get crits in a row is reduced, and the chance to not get crits in a row is also reduced, WHICH IS FUCKED UP COMPLETELY (aka you know if you haven't crit on cs a bunch of times, you can fight, your critchance is then higher)

Then the 'powerspike of 4 items' you're talking about is a fucking joke. Can you please stop intentionally saying bullshit? You act like the chance to crit is a completely free stat and that it takes no powerbudget whatsoever. It costs money and when you compare a row of crits, you have to compare it TO THE AVERAGE CRIT REPARTITION, NOT TO 0 CRITS BECAUSE THATD BE RETARDED. If you get full crits in a row as you have 50% crit, it changes your average damage output from 150% AD /auto to 200% AD / auto which is a 33% damage increase in case you have IE it changes it from 175 to 250% which is a 42.8% damage increase

You act like it gives 4 items but... have you forgotten crit items like Essence reaver, PD, runnaans.. Also have passives, CDR, AD, attack speed?

Also have you taken in account the fact it can also GO THE OTHER WAY MAYBE? Like not get crits? FFS it could even be an argument for your complaint. I'm fucking tired of low effort posts who just do a vague, false on numbers, complaint. The problem is maybe real, but go in with real arguments, not made up BS for the love of god.

50% chance means nothing. 3 crits in a row and 3 none crits doesnt matter, because the enemy is already dead.

Yeah cause the crits are always reparted on the first 3 autos. RIGHT.

PS : in your example statikk shiv + IE costs much more than duskblade + serrated dirk.

Hibeki2 votes

Have you forgotten that crit is the most powerful stat of the item and that its one of the cheapest stats in the game?

Have you forgotten that adc's will build virtually any item just because it has crit on it.

Of course its not consistent. Thats the problem. If youre lucky you just stomp them and theres no counterplay for it. It NEEDS to be controlled to be a balanced stat.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

Have you forgotten that crit is the most powerful stat of the item and that its one of the cheapest stats in the game?

Have you forgotten that adc's will build virtually any item just because it has crit on it.

Of course its not consistent. Thats the problem. If youre lucky you just stomp them and theres no counterplay for it. It NEEDS to be controlled to be a balanced stat.

Because it's overpowered on the raw stats and percentages it gives maybe? And not the random effect? And maybe instead of 'having a great chance to be overpowered' changing crit to bonus % damage would make them consistently overpowered ? I feel like you vastly overestimate the rng factor and put it as the problem when it is not necessarily the problem.

The cheapness and cost efficiency of the item can be changed without affecting crit mechanics tbh

Smooth562 votes

{quoted}

Wrong.

He's right though. The chance to crit on 3 consecutive autos is 1/8 theorically, but in the game there is a smoothing factor so that the more you crit, the less likely you are to crit for the next auto (same if you don't crit).

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

but in the game there is a smoothing factor so that the more you crit, the less likely you are to crit

Which makes the odds of three crits in a row NOT 1 in 8, which makes him wrong, which makes your post nonsense.

Smooth561 votes

{quoted}

Which makes the odds of three crits in a row NOT 1 in 8, which makes him wrong, which makes your post nonsense.

Not really. You should read again what he said and what i said. (which I said because he had a lot of downvotes)

Quepha1 votes

He said it's very common (it's not). You said he was right (he's wrong). You said it's theoretically 1/8 (it's much less than that).

Smooth561 votes

{quoted}

He said it's very common (it's not). You said he was right (he's wrong). You said it's theoretically 1/8 (it's much less than that).

Oops my bad, I didn't notice it was you who posted "Wrong". My first answer wasn't for you but for the guys who downvoted your post. I wanted to say you were right it is not 1/8 but less than that. (and theorically with 50% crit you have 1/8 of doing 3 crits in a row with 3 aa)

Ok sure but why4 votes

As an Ashe main,

please let Ashe be special

Hibeki1 votes

And unsurprisingly, ashe isnt very good because she doesnt have yolo crits.

Who would have thought? RNG is stupid

Ok sure but why5 votes

I dunno why people say Ashe is bad; she's really, really good when I play her

Kaìju3 votes

You're actually wrong. Ashe has historically had a stable winrate. When ADCs are bad she's good and when ADCs are good she's alright. She has good poke, top tier utility, and reliable DPS ifon the low side. If you think Ashe is bad, you're either a fool or just plain bad. Ashe is reliable because she always has something to offer.

And before you say "random crits" she does have random crits, she doesn't crit every hit, she crits for what her % is. The key factor is that her crits triple her slow. And if you think that doesn't sound important then again, you are wrong. Her tripled slow is one of the reasons you pick her. A 60% refreshing slow is insane.

But I already know you're gonna say "You're silver" so tell me how Ashe is bad. Explain it to me Fake Faker.

AR URF2 votes

I just hate how crit seems to suit very few ADCs like Jhin Twitch and Vayne.

Kaìju4 votes

Are you trying to say crit only fits those three? Your post doesn't make sense to me because you worded it as such that it reads like "crit only fits on a few ADCs like Jhin, Twitch, and Vayne."

If that's what you mean let me correct you. Crit is a hyper carry stat. It's what you get to do game ending damage. Hyper carries love crit, and some others too too. ADCs that can use crit well are Vayne, Trist, Twitch, Jhin, Ashe, Jinx, Xayah, MF, Sivir, Cait, and Draven. Ashe, Jhin, Sivir, Xayah, and Cait all have a special interaction with crit in some way. Trist, Twitch, and Jinx all have long range with Jinx also having AOE crits due to rockets. And Vayne just likes the nuke IE and Shiv provide. Even ADCs like MF and Lucian can get away with crit because they have some sort of auto attack steroid that lets them use it. For MF it's her 100% attack speed W or whatever it is, for Lucian it's the passive that can crit for two crit autos combined with ER for an extremely low CD dash. Almost every ADC can build crit and do well, some are just more noticeable. Even Kog'Maw and Varus can go crit, and they are picked for their mixed or AP damage.

As a last note, crit Corki is fun. You hit them for 100AD 500AP with IE.

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0QIvPsAA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-12-22T20:29:17.094+0000)

I just hate how crit seems to suit very few ADCs like Jhin Twitch and Vayne.

Caitlyn Ashe Jhin Jinx Lucian MissFortune Tristana Vayne Varus Twitch Xayah Sivir Draven

All of these adcs can or do build crit.

How is that a "few"

MetalGearTeemo1 votes

Riot only hates RNG when its dodge. They love having 2 yolo crits turn or end games because its esports hype.

Leetri5 votes

Dodge was a terrible stat because if you got unlucky you'd deal literally 0 damage even though you did everything right. With crit, even if you get super unlucky you still deal some damage and can contribute to the fight.

kargish1 votes

So let's readd dodge where it prevents 50% damage because that makes logical sense [slayer-jinx-wink]

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