Is there any justification for why Riot nerfed jungler xp so much?

Visigoth·Jan 3, 2015·15 votes·1,087 views

Camps are stronger so take longer to kill and do more damage so you can't gank after farming a few camps. Camps have a longer respawn timers. And camps give less XP overall across the board (however more individually apart from buffs which give less).

If you get behind in the jungle because you can't gank well (imagine a Skarner trying to gank a Lissandra, Zed mid, or Ezreal Janna botl lane) then you're screwed because camps don't give you shit and you farm them slower anyways. In so many games I'll get ganks off early on but the enemy top laner and mid laner (along with my top and mid) will end up 3 or even 4 levels ahead of both me and the enemy jungler.

My favorite part is if you try to tax so you can get decent gold and xp, you get flamed by your laner, even if they're dead...

12 Comments

AlorasenceJan 3, 20159 votes

Really powerful early game junglers like Lee Sin, Khazix, and Jarvan skewed the reality of jungle pressure. It seemed that immobile champions in carry positions were completely destroyed by junglers, so the entire position of jungling was nerfed.

Champions like Ashe, Brand, Malzahar, Veigar, Ziggs, Draven, Varus, Anivia, Cassiopeia, and Miss Fortune were all essentially unviable* because of the enormous early game pressure applied by Lee Sin, Khazix, and Jarvan.

Instead of nerfing the specific champions, they attempted to nerf the role. Now, junglers are incapable of ganking as early as before and are lower level than they were before.

Most junglers were caught in the crossfire of this balancing decision.

It was a mistake, but not an unfixable one.

Early pressure junglers need nerfed, but the jungle xp needs buffed significantly. Junglers should be concentrated on acquiring team vision and objective control, not murdering laners to swing and snowball the game.

*I'm generally refering to competetive and high-elo

WooBeeWooJan 3, 20155 votes

To get rid of everything they did in season 4. If anything should show how absolutely clueless Riot is with balance its the fact that from season 3 to 4 they wanted the jungle to be able to carry the game so they buffed it. They didn't like that so they took they jungle and made is weaker than even the season 3 jungle. Clearly they basically just don't know what they are fucking doing.

Toothierosprey3Jan 3, 20155 votes

I used to have fun jungling, back when more than 4 champs could jungle effectively. Instead of making the jungle harder for those 4 champs, the entire jungle gets buffed, it's just the worst.

SammystormJan 3, 20154 votes

partialy because of early game junglers and partially due to laner poaching.

PrinceOfStormsJan 3, 20153 votes

Pretty much because of laner poaching and junglers like Jarvan/Lee Sin/Kha'zix who put out immense levels of early game pressure

Chromatic EagleJan 3, 20151 votes

Lee has been talked to death, and Khaz is one of those champions Riot has described as always needing tuning. How would you tone down Jarvan?

TheKingDodoJan 3, 20152 votes

Rito wants you to gank right away to pull off #BigLCSPlays. You'll be ahead after your first 3 camps since you'll have hit lvl 3 while mid lane's still lvl 2 almost hitting lvl 3. That's usually where meta junglers show their faces for their first gank/pressure. it seem to work very well. Even yis who are more traditionally farm oriented do more early ganks before their entire clear. They get ahead by getting kills. In solo queue, it appears that getting kills makes you seem superior thereby discouraging any laners from flaming you when you tax. jungle's becoming more about being a dominating alpha wolf force so it seems :/ However that lvl 3 gank is not always necessary... for fast clearers like udyr, shyvana, etc. they can choose to gank whenever since their speed allows them to easily clear fast enough to keep up in lvl (whereas before in season 3-4 they seem to even excel in lvl). However I suspect these guys will eventually have to gank at sometime. Sustain jungle seems to be fading out, since fid doesn't give that great ganks pre-6 and he can be easily counter jungled. same thing with ww... Rito makes money from fast paced plays, jungle ganks is one of the ways to pull off plays, ergo they promote gank-oriented styles while fading out all the other.

Blame capitalist, join the glorious revolution Viktor

disregardableJan 3, 20151 votes

They didn't. They shifted a large part of the experience from the buffs to the small camps. Unfortunately, with the mana changes and damage increases, it's now basically impossible to reliably farm small camps for 90% of junglers. I felt like this was something they're actively working on making better.

Or at least keeping track of.

CyrranJan 3, 20151 votes

I jungled for the first time since these changes last night as volibear. Big mistake, I hadn't even looked at the changes since I didn't think they'd be that drastic.... boy was I wrong.

I had to base twice before clearing my first jungle rotation. It was that damaging. Also, I was only level 3 when laners were 6. That right there is some BS. How can I even risk ganking when I'm so low leveled compared to everything else? :/

disregardableJan 3, 20151 votes

Yeah, you don't do full clears anymore. You just do both the buffs and maybe wolves. That'll get you to 3 and you can back and gank. Most junglers are now forced to gank successfully to stay relevant.

CyrranJan 4, 20151 votes

still, I think they ruined summoner's rift this season, jungle especially.