Maybe that's a bit of a problem?
Edit: This has happened to me twice now. it's not so much the movement speed as it is the movement speed + stun. I've seen an udyr get up to around 600 movement speed before. Singed can outrun him in a marathon, but in sprints where it matter udyr rips my fucking face off. Most of the time he can even ignore rylais it seems.
Meep Man4 votesThis is... actually entirely wrong. Udyr can't do that. That's 480.75 max for Udyr versus Singed's 485. Barely, but Singed is still outrunning him.
Udyr Formula: 345 + 35% + 15 flat Singed Formula: 345 + 60 flat + 80 flat
xBushx1 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0EvhUM5A,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-18T20:20:07.843+0000)
This is... actually entirely wrong. Udyr can't do that. That's 480.75 max for Udyr versus Singed's 485. Barely, but Singed is still outrunning him.
Does Udyr not have Tier ONE boots at least in this instance. Cause Udyr NO boots is huge comparison.
Meep Man2 votesThis is no boots Udyr as said in the OP. This is also without any other MS items as well for each of them except for Singed having boots, as in the OP. If Udyr has Runic Echoes, he will be faster than Singed simply because he has 2 movement speed boosts in his kit.
Anomander3 votesDon't forget runes and masteries.... I mean movement speed out of combat plus 4.5% on quints.... You can get udyr faster then singe but you are going 100% movement speed.
Meep Man2 votesThis is a little different, as the OP is saying these boosts listed alone, meaning Udyr's base kit versus Singed's base kit plus boots, are not good when Udyr can outrun Singed (which he can't). If Udyr has ANY form of additional boost, however, Udyr is running faster or equal to Singed.
Anomander1 votesEdit: This has happened to me twice now
in game experience.......
Sorgklaan1 votesDon't forget red buff either.
Pierce The Veal2 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0EvhUM5A,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-18T20:20:07.843+0000)
This is... actually entirely wrong. Udyr can't do that. That's 480.75 max for Udyr versus Singed's 485. Barely, but Singed is still outrunning him.
Udyr Formula: 345 + 35% + 15 flat Singed Formula: 345 + 60 flat + 80 flat
But that also means Singed below level 16 is outrun. Singed gains 35/50/80 from his ult. In short, he should be much slower. Udyr's movespeed at maxed bear stance with regular boots no runic echoes would be 360*1.35=486. All movespeed above 415 is diminished by 20%, so (486-415)*0.8+415=471.6 is udyr's final movement speed. And since you forgot that boots adds movement speed that scales up with % movement speed bonuses, even without diminished returns Udyr beats Singed by 1 movement speed at Singed ult max rank with just tier 1 boots and maxed bear stance (or whatever that 35% movement speed is). This means that below level 16 Udyr completely outspeeds Singed.
At max ult level, Singed has (485-415)*0.8+415= 471 movement speed. Unless Singed get some percent movement speed bonus from somewhere, or buys deadman's plat, he will be completely beat in terms of movement speed by Udyr.
ChaoticPinecone1 votes"When Udyr has no boots"
Adding in boots to the equation defeats the purpose of the post.
Pierce The Veal3 votes"When Udyr has no boots"
Adding in boots to the equation defeats the purpose of the post.
Hey I'm just pointing out that the other guy's math was wrong.
Note here that runic echoes or some other % movement speed modifier could easily make up for tier 1 boots.
I'm downvoting you for not thinking before trash talking.
ChaoticPinecone1 votesDownvote away. Youre just mad that youre being called out on manipulating the numbers to trick people into thinking youre right.
Its pretty apparent that you tried to argue that Udyr is faster than Singed when he has boots, when the thread title clearly states "when Udyr has no boots"
Pierce The Veal3 votesDownvote away. Youre just mad that youre being called out on manipulating the numbers to trick people into thinking youre right.
Its pretty apparent that you tried to argue that Udyr is faster than Singed when he has boots, when the thread title clearly states "when Udyr has no boots"
I mean, I was using the numbers provided by the other guy doing the math. I have no reason to make Udyr look OP.
With my math you should be able to tell that even without boots Udyr would outrun Singed at any level pre-16. You have to be pretty bad at math not to come to that conclusion. And you also have to be utterly bad at math to not realize that building runic echoes (which I assume said udyr did) would make udyr be able to beat Singed at level 16 in movement speed.
In short, you are either a forum troll, or a 12 year old, or both. Begone from this logical thread! Go rejoin your circlejerk!
ChaoticPinecone1 votesDo you know what the term "relevance" means? You might want to check it out.
With your math, youve shown that an at 16, an Udyr with maxed Bear and boots can outrun a Singed by 1 movespeed. Of course, you also seem to not include that Udyr's bear stance isnt is at max up 3 out of every 3.3 seconds if you have 45% CDR (6 seconds at 0%), and Singed can easily overtake the 1 movespeed in .3-3 seconds.
We dont know if Udyr built runic echos. Adding that into the calculus makes it even more irrelevant. Original post didnt say anything about Runic Echos. If we are going that route, you might as well add Zzrot, Alacs, Deadmans, Movespeed quints, and ghost into the mix.
So in short, youre trying to save an argument by adding variables that the original poster explicitly excluded. "When Udyr has no boots" is the premise of the argument. You cant change around the basis of the argument and expect to be taken seriously.
Pierce The Veal3 votesDo you know what the term "relevance" means? You might want to check it out.
With your math, youve shown that an at 16, an Udyr with maxed Bear and boots can outrun a Singed by 1 movespeed. Of course, you also seem to not include that Udyr's bear stance isnt is at max up 3 out of every 3.3 seconds if you have 45% CDR (6 seconds at 0%), and Singed can easily overtake the 1 movespeed in .3-3 seconds.
We dont know if Udyr built runic echos. Adding that into the calculus makes it even more irrelevant. Original post didnt say anything about Runic Echos. If we are going that route, you might as well add Zzrot, Alacs, Deadmans, Movespeed quints, and ghost into the mix.
So in short, youre trying to save an argument by adding variables that the original poster explicitly excluded. "When Udyr has no boots" is the premise of the argument. You cant change around the basis of the argument and expect to be taken seriously.
You're a [text redacted] who doesn't realize I quoted another person's math and corrected it, and my math was entirely based off of their math. I didn't include runic echoes (but I said including it would more than make up for boots), and I didn't come up with my own argument. I based my argument off of someone else's argument.
You can't come in, ignore the context entirely, and use ad hominem arguments that debase a human being because what they were said assumed several things. People like you are the reason for all the toxicity in this community, and I sincerely hope you get permanently banned in the future, as it would be a huge victory for the continued productivity of the community.
I'm sorry I made math that your brain couldn't wrap around OP. Go! The world of trolls and 12 year old CoD players compels you! Don't bother doing the math but insult all the people who do! Be free to be jerk everywhere!
ChaoticPinecone1 votesDo you know what ad hominem is? Because youre the one using it. I dont think ive ever insulted you - ive said that your argument doesnt address whats in the thread topic. Youre the one saying im a "troll" and a "12 year olds" and whatever "[text redacted]" means.
I find it particularly hilarious that you accuse others using ad hominem when they arent, but use it yourself. Maybe you should be looking inwards before criticizing anybody.
You also accuse me of posting out of context, but fail to see that you are the one posting out of context. You "fixed" someone's math, and concluded that Udyr is faster. Fixing math is good. Fixing math by adding in boots is not. Look back at the post you "fixed" - was there boots in that post?
Pierce The Veal3 votesDo you know what ad hominem is? Because youre the one using it. I dont think ive ever insulted you - ive said that your argument doesnt address whats in the thread topic. Youre the one saying im a "troll" and a "12 year olds" and whatever "[text redacted]" means.
I find it particularly hilarious that you accuse others using ad hominem when they arent, but use it yourself. Maybe you should be looking inwards before criticizing anybody.
You also accuse me of posting out of context, but fail to see that you are the one posting out of context. You "fixed" someone's math, and concluded that Udyr is faster. Fixing math is good. Fixing math by adding in boots is not. Look back at the post you "fixed" - was there boots in that post?
Then what the fuck can explain that random +15 in that post dumbass? I didn't add boots in, I just took into account what was posted there.
I completely know what ad hominem means. And I resorted to it only because you decided insulting someone would be amusing. By looking at the damn math, any regular dumbass should be able to figure out that even without boots Udyr outspeeds Singed most, if not all of the time. If you're so great at math, and you're not going to wing it like I did then do the fucking math yourself. Do you really think I care whether Udyr's faster than singed? I don't play either champion, I just wanted to be helpful.
ChaoticPinecone1 votesWow you got angry pretty quick.
You apparently dont know what ad hominem is, or you are blind to yourself using it. I never insulted anyone. I said your post isnt relevant to the thread if you included boots. You have some pretty sensitive skin if you think thats a insult. You might be able to dish out insults, but apparently you cant take honest criticism.
And maybe you should take a quick look at Udyrs skills before posting anything. (Hint - read his passive).
You keep saying you did math. Thats great. Lets see where you accounted for the period of time that bear stance isnt active, and show how many seconds it would take Singed to close the distance that Udyr gains from that 1 extra movespeed.
Pierce The Veal1 votesWow you got angry pretty quick.
You apparently dont know what ad hominem is, or you are blind to yourself using it. I never insulted anyone. I said your post isnt relevant to the thread if you included boots. You have some pretty sensitive skin if you think thats a insult. You might be able to dish out insults, but apparently you cant take honest criticism.
And maybe you should take a quick look at Udyrs skills before posting anything. (Hint - read his passive).
You keep saying you did math. Thats great. Lets see where you accounted for the period of time that bear stance isnt active, and show how many seconds it would take Singed to close the distance that Udyr gains from that 1 extra movement speed.
Talk about being entitled. Go do it yourself if you want to go to that much effort. I wanted to be helpful, so I fixed some math, I was never here to outright do all the math you. It's not a matter of soft skinned, it's a matter of you coming in and trashing other people's work when you yourself are not willing to do any. Furthermore, you proceed to expect us to do even more work? Talk about a waste of our time.
I wouldn't even bother arguing with someone like you if I wasn't sick and tired of your kind profliferating like some sort of pathogenic carcinogen.
ChaoticPinecone1 votesEntitled? Why? Because youre spreading a wrong result?
I'm not telling you to do more work. Im telling you that the results you reached are wrong. Im also telling you what you need to include in order to reach the right result.
Didnt say you needed to do more work. If you dont want to, then dont. Nobodys asking you to. If you want to reach the correct results, well, you know what to do. If you dont? Just accept that your results are wrong and move on.
Pierce The Veal1 votesEntitled? Why? Because youre spreading a wrong result?
I'm not telling you to do more work. Im telling you that the results you reached are wrong. Im also telling you what you need to include in order to reach the right result.
Didnt say you needed to do more work. If you dont want to, then dont. Nobodys asking you to. If you want to reach the correct results, well, you know what to do. If you dont? Just accept that your results are wrong and move on.
I'm going to lean on upvotes/downvotes (though I hate to do so) to point out that it's obvious who's more appreciated here. Hint: it's not you. Now shoo, scurry off to whatever shithole you came from.
ChaoticPinecone1 votesLol. Are insults all you can say?
If you "hate to do so", why do it? Because youre wrong and thats all you have to defend yourself? You cant use any of that half-assed "logic" because ive poked holes in all of it?
Wrong is wrong buddy. Face facts.
Troy2426212 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0EvhUM5A,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-18T20:20:07.843+0000)
This is... actually entirely wrong. Udyr can't do that. That's 480.75 max for Udyr versus Singed's 485. Barely, but Singed is still outrunning him.
Udyr Formula: 345 + 35% + 15 flat Singed Formula: 345 + 60 flat + 80 flat
It depends how far they are apart when they start. Udyr's E actually gapcloses a short distance, and stuns. It also gives MS.
xBushx2 votesShow movement speed math.
Cause straight up this is a blatantly incorrect shitpost!
I guess I am here to counter post so I guess that means you won??
Pierce The Veal1 votes[{quoted}](name=x Bush x,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0EvhUM5A,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-18T20:16:18.833+0000)
Show movement speed math.
Cause straight up this is a blatantly incorrect shitpost!
I guess I am here to counter post so I guess that means you won??
I mean,
I want to say that he's lying, but maybe udyr has runic echoes and triforce? I can see him totally outrunning singed then.
Edit: try your calculations with first point in singed ult.
67chrome1 votesMaybe that's a bit of a problem?
Udyr would be completely useless against Singed if Singed could reliably outrun him.
I don't see why Singed should be impossible to deal with for Udyr, especially if it comes down to a map-wide endurance run.
EndlessSorcerer1 votesDid Udyr have Runic Echoes and/or Lichbane and/or Movement Speed Quints and/or Zz'rot Portal?
Even without Boots, Udyr can get quite a bit of movement speed from other sources.
Pierce The Veal1 votesMaybe that's a bit of a problem?
Edit: This has happened to me twice now. it's not so much the movement speed as it is the movement speed + stun. I've seen an udyr get up to around 600 movement speed before. Singed can outrun him in a marathon, but in sprints where it matter udyr rips my fucking face off. Most of the time he can even ignore rylais it seems.
His extreme movement speed means reducing his movement speed will not be as effective. Because movement speed above 490 is diminished by a lot, you further reducing it will only mean his diminished returns are reduced by a bit. In short, he can effectively "shrug off" your Ryalis because of his extreme movespeed. Not to mention by moving so fast he can avoid the trail.