Dopa on mid lane: "Mid lane is so limited"

D357R0Y3R·Jun 11, 2018·33 votes·17,453 views

https://youtu.be/-P-itot2BOs?t=32

"Irelia TF Zoe Talon Leblanc if you pick fizz or zed you're asking to lose and you're trolling"

"the gap between meta and non meta mid laners is too huge"

70 Comments

ZJD123Jun 11, 201830 votes

"if you pick zed you're asking to lose and you're trolling"

But according to gameplay boards zed is super OP unbeatable insane laning phase champion?

:thinking:

341123545652Jun 11, 20187 votes

50.6% winrate, doesnt get more "uncounterable" than that.

potchikerJun 12, 20182 votes

muh winrate

NaymlissJun 12, 201813 votes

Maybe in the peak of cn or kr challenger that's true, but in any elo besides high elo assassins will always be strong due to teammates not reacting to roams, so the posts aren't exactly wrong.

GinormousVnerJun 12, 20181 votes

The posts are wrong, Zed is not OP unless you're bad at the game (low elo).

So yea, they're absolutely wrong

NaymlissJun 13, 20181 votes

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/zed/kr/diamond

I'd be inclined to believe you, but in EVEN IN KR high elo(the peak of league of legends) zed has a 53.1% winrate. While he may not be OP, he sure as hell is strong, even against some of the best players.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 12, 20181 votes

Comment talks about laning phase. Complaints are about laning phase being "instawin" against mages. You say he can roam. Find the error. The posts are completely wrong because they all claim mages cant do ANYTHING against zed.

NaymlissJun 13, 20181 votes

The issue with a lot of these posts is that they don't really identify the problem with assassins. When they say that you can't do anything against them, that's obviously wrong. However, you don't really ever win lane against them if they play it well unless you either pick just to beat them or pick some insane lane bully. Regardless, you can still win the game because most mage's win conditions are very different than just SNOWBALL EARLY, PANIC MID GAME, FALL OFF LATE GAME like assassin's are, but it is really difficult to lane against a lot of assassins.

TempName54846Jun 12, 20184 votes

probably because the boards users aren't talon, lb or irelia mains

SlythionJun 12, 20183 votes

probably because the game is a little bit different between top 10 players in the world and a bunch of silvers.

I'm not saying Zed is or isn't OP (personally I don't think he's that bad rn), I just want to point out that Dopa is playing a vastly different game than the majority of players on the boards

edit: If you're going to downvote, please let me know why lol. What part of this do you disagree with?

GinormousVnerJun 12, 20183 votes

Maybe Riot shouldn't balance the game around players who have no idea what they're talking about then?

SlythionJun 13, 20181 votes

They don't, they balance around plat who have some idea of what they're talking about. Do plats and Dopa still play the same game? no, but it's undeniably more alike than random silvers and Dopa.

Balancing around the top 10-15% of League players seems pretty reasonable to me...

Smitty ManjensenJun 12, 20183 votes

{quoted}

"if you pick zed you're asking to lose and you're trolling"

But according to gameplay boards zed is super OP unbeatable insane laning phase champion?

:thinking:

People are mixing op with cancer to play against. I mostly ban Zed because he's cancer to play against, don't wanna deal with his bullshit, same with Yasuo.

LOSINGISMYPRIDEJun 12, 20181 votes

zed is really good in the laning phase but fall off really hard in the late game against tank . The same goes for talon when the game start to get longer .They both got pick off potential with their ultimate but zoe and leblanc in the late game pick off player like candy .

GhazterJun 11, 201815 votes

I agree. I think the gap between Meta and Non-Meta has increased too much for most lanes in the last couple patches.

Handy Sandy Jun 12, 20183 votes

Agree. In the past I've been able to play whatever I wanted without feeling too handicapped but now this is just ridiculous.

SoƒiaJun 11, 201812 votes

He's talking about high elo of course, Challenger obviously and maybe master in KR/CN regions.

So it doesn't 100% apply to you unless you're already in that elo or are trying to get there. You can get to high diamond playing Zed/Fizz in western regions at the very least, maybe even low master if you're really good but at that point you might as well stick to Apdo's advice given that you probably have the potential to make challenger.

In NA at least there are exceptions, 500+ lp challenger dude that plays almost exclusively Kat for example.

Noor SakataJun 12, 20187 votes

While I agree , but can't agree about Fizz and Zed being bad picks , both of them got +50% winrate in KR Challenger .

NorthernRedStarJun 12, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AbdlL7N,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-06-12T02:56:30.362+0000)

While I agree , but can't agree about Fizz and Zed being bad picks , both of them got +50% winrate in KR Challenger .

I think the reason he said that, is because both of these picks are (somewhat) inferior to Irelia and Leblanc for example. They're still better than any of the other 'non-meta' picks.

charge attackJun 12, 20184 votes

These stats are usually skewed by 1-tricks or the fact that challengers pick some champs into very specific matchups. Winrates jn Challenger elo are super skewed, sometimes up to like 80% w/r and is not actually indicative of champ strength.

DakeudharmaJun 12, 20181 votes

they can't be blind picked. Mid kayle absolutely deletes them for example. Or as it was mentioned here they struggle against irelia.

Noor SakataJun 12, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=God of Dark Love,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AbdlL7N,comment-id=00090003,timestamp=2018-06-12T16:29:59.970+0000)

they can't be blind picked. Mid kayle absolutely deletes them for example. Or as it was mentioned here they struggle against irelia.

Yeah they struggle against Irelia , but not always , they can perma ban her tho , as for Kayle , she isn't picked that much but Yeah she is a nightmare to him , especially in fights

Nausicäa Jun 11, 20186 votes

If you take his word as gospel then you're a fucking idiot. EVERYONE no matter their skill level has certain biases and misconceptions. Simply because he personally believes X doesnt mean that its true.

The amount of times we've seen pro players back peddle on picks saying they are trash and not picking them only to start 100% picking them because Koreans started playing it with 0 changes to the champion is proof of this.

dunder killJun 12, 20183 votes

Jungle sends it's condolences

SirPurrrJun 12, 20183 votes

this is even more true for jg

pick shit like Ekko and you'll get absolutely obliterated by a competent graves, xin, kha early and in graves' case, even outscaled massively

even outside of those, stuff like udyr, shyvana and yi will just powerfarm so much faster than non-meta picks that they can't compete + will be lower HP while clearing

Eye Of TerrorJun 12, 20183 votes

Yeah, that's because those meta mid picks counter the regular assassins like fizz or zed which are strong, but funny enough: countered by the 'God tier' picks listed above.

People complain about Zed (and me about Fizz, I hate that cancer) because they counter the regular mage roaster. Picking a mage against those two is "asking to lose and trolling". :)

Yeah ...and also: this gap between meta and non meta picks started increasing (and keeps increasing) right after CancerCrawler started working at Riot. Still, it's just a coincidence according to his fanboys (ranging from players, mods and riot staff). It's not like something like that was happening in WoW when he was working there.

ZackTheWaffleManJun 11, 20182 votes

Depends on whether you can counterpick, honestly.

shoe6535Jun 12, 20182 votes

just saying apdo sounds better than dopa and APDO is playing in korean challenger

Automated RivenJun 12, 20182 votes

Most people don't know they are the same person.

BisaknospJun 12, 20182 votes

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

i hate how TwistedFate is s tier for years now he isnt the most broken champion or anything i just think his w and r are kind of op i cant remember him getting anything but nerfs while still being one of the best solo q champs its stupid and i think he needs some changes to make him less reliable not a rework but definitely some work

Bobloser3555Jun 12, 20182 votes

He is talking for very high level players, so this excludes 99% of players.

big boi edriJun 12, 20182 votes

Just a heads up, most of us on these forums are Bronze-Gold where non of this matters.

You can pick whoever/whatever you want in any lane and make it work if you're decent at it. Low leagues aren't so much about the champion picks as they are about just trying to play a little bit better every game. You can have awful mechanics on a non-meta champ and get out of Silver with just a decent grasp on macro play.

This thread seems to have steered towards relating his message to solo queue where we play, and it really isn't for the majority of these boards. Any discussion on this, one would think, would be in regards to Pro/High Tier play... not personal experiences on the matter.

Bobloser3555Jun 12, 20181 votes

I think the average Joe Bronze could get to Diamond keeping the same bad mechanics if he had the knowledge of a Challenger. That's just my opinion because I believe this game is mostly about game knowledge.

big boi edriJun 12, 20181 votes

Especially in the current meta, where people get blown up left and right. If you can just play for the macro game you can climb. IDK about Diamond as I've never been there, but from what I'm told everything D5 and below is just learning to macro correctly.

MreeshaiJun 12, 20181 votes

Having the basic mechanics drilled down gives you a lot more free time for map awareness. A Challenger player is going to have a lot more free time for understanding what's going on in order to execute a successful macro play than a Bronze player does. And since Joe Bronze is worse at farming than the others he's facing at higher elo, he's going to be playing from behind and losing his trades most of the time. That limits what he can do in the strategic side. I think that Joe would climb out of Bronze, but the mechanics would have to improve before Diamond.

Bobloser3555Jun 14, 20181 votes

Perhaps, but last hitting is a lot about knowledge too not just mechanics.

Malix FarwinJun 12, 20182 votes

Interesting considering the video he is making that comment on, the only champions picked mid in that list was TF and it was by him, no other mid laner he went against where any of those champions listed, heck none of them were even in those games.

Ill take it further using https://lolalytics.com/ranked/kr/platinum/plus/champions/

If you go to mid lane in highest elo in Korea, Zed and Yasuo are picked more then any of those champions listed and while those champions also have a high pick rate as well they are not beating the so called "troll picks" in pick rate.

Again his video further contradicts itself because you see the so called troll pick "fizz"(who byw has 58% with top Fizz players) get banned.

AirKingNeoJun 11, 20181 votes

[deleted]

D357R0Y3RJun 11, 20187 votes

but he included zoe in the list?

this list is basically a list of overpowered champions that rule mid lane

Infernal IronicJun 12, 20181 votes

Lets see

Irelia is top tier pick true TF ranking position hasnt changed for a ages still top tier (I wonder how high dopa would be without maining this) Zoe is slightly overated Talon is Great pick sometimes Fizz is bad true Le blanc is the worst she has ever been past well uhm around 5 -6 years Zed is top tier midlane pick..

Aurelion sol is nowhere mentioned despite being true midlane god Lulu is also not mentioned despite being well a FKING LULU Taliyah is not mentioned despite those buffs skyrocketing her rank not just in jungle Syndra is not being mentioned despite the scuttle / blue buff control Ryze is still a cancer tier in high elo

bUT THEN again Korean INTERNET caffee bullshit forces an Open mid meta in korea so you ll ever only see early game powerhouses in korea

GaliöJun 12, 20181 votes

Leblanc is busted right now wtf u talking about lol

Infernal IronicJun 12, 20181 votes

Plz educate the #1 lb world about Le blanc state

My main Account is Poske and I peeked as #1 lb world on 4 different sites TWICE (last year chall and current year chall)

Reworked le blanc was stronger in Every fking aspect. 0.0000000001% of players knew how to abuse her core items item 3145 item 3057 item 3100

If you want to talk about statistics

Right before rework Le blanc was master tier champion (Lolalytics rated with good banrate) After rework Le blanc dropped to platinum tier champion

Her winrate has also decreased, some might say that her popularity went up but it has steadly been decreasing to. Not to mention those Return players havent even played their placement matches yet so they fluctuated le blanc winrate up. Many people also quit league because she got reworked fk I might have to And I have been enjoying le blanc since her release day

And she was Master tier while entire FKING world but me and players I coached were building her wrong. (AKA she should have been rated as chall tier)

Current le blanc doesnt deserve more then 0.2% banrate, while reworked le blanc is pick or ban if mastered (good thing none but me did)

He also forgot to mention vladimir which is pick or ban status.. but whatever.

GaliöJun 12, 20181 votes

I'll believe you and I agree vlad should be up there as well.

From my experience I haven't been overwhelmed by a LB since she had her silence. And recently with her semi revert I feel she is obnoxious to lane against again.

MreeshaiJun 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Infernal Ironic,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AbdlL7N,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2018-06-12T16:07:24.804+0000) Reworked le blanc was stronger in Every fking aspect. 0.0000000001% of players knew how to abuse her core items

Talking about statistics of that number, LOL has a monthly playerbase of 80 million people. That makes 0,000 00125% of players one person. I have no comments regarding the validity of your argument otherwise. I understand that you meant to say "very few".

CasterGilgameshJun 12, 20181 votes

what makes tf top pick?

DakeudharmaJun 12, 20182 votes

he can't loose lane with good runes. and not loose lane + free roam with r means gg.

CasterGilgameshJun 12, 20181 votes

oh i guess then im a scrub i try to go Sorcery plus precision tree for tf i like to take too much risk

DakeudharmaJun 12, 20181 votes

Yeah dopa likes to run either spellbook or grasp in some situations. (grasp vs melee, it is good since you just pick card and proc it with card, with this runes you can survive first talon/zed/kata ultimate etc.) Spellbook when you need additional utility in some matchups like vs vladimir etc.