Unpopular opinion: I think Caitlyn is a great design

Ahristocats··9 votes·2,015 views

I know that she is unfun to lane against and obnoxious, but she's how a hypercarry should be This thread is going to try to prove that caitlyn is how a hypercarry should work

Caitlyn unlike other hypercarries has her damage tied to spells. Her Q until late game takes an IMMENSE impact in a one vs one, her net also impacts an one vs one and unlike other hypercarries she has to think about where she has to fight

I know i know, if caitlyn is fed than she just right-click you to death which removes all of her counterplay but it's the same for every champion. If darius is fed he doesn't need to hit the blade of his Q anymore, if ahri is fed she can kill you wit undodgeable spells (unless you have a frontline blocking W) if ezreal is fed ect...

But let's take a look of what happens if caitlyn isn't massively ahead Headshot is caitlyn's only steroid, this is what makes her a hypercarry, what makes her doing damage, but look closely how it works it's every 7 shots which means that it takes a long time to charge, however: -she can get headshots with traps and net which creates more gameplay than just rightclicking -she gains 2 stacks if she hits from a bush , this feels so amazing to bait an olaf under ult into a bush and then you know that here you're in your field the combination of those makes a better gameplay than just rightclicking for both caitlyn and her oppenent, she becomes more than a stat-check rightclicking champion, she can outplay an enemy and be outplayed, she can outsmart them by bringing them into a bush for her passive and trap them with W

in a one vs one, her Q has a long cast time and until late game it contains a lot of caitlyn's power if she fails it chance that she will lose an 1v1 is high her E can be dodged, i saw imaqtpie dodging doublelift's net a lot of time, her E can also be stopped by displacement and it has a delay which means if you cast E can you're hooked by darius for instance you have been outplayed and then punished

All of that in my opinion is better than Twitch Jinx Tristana Vayne for instance who just stat-check you and answer to the question: "do i have enough items to destroy you?"

"But rubick, caitlyn is extremely boring to play" i disagree, if you find caitlyn boring you just don't like the kit but that doesn't mean it's boring

https://i.gyazo.com/fc347a1951ba91ea967db5fcc75e46ad.png

there are a lot of caitlyn's mains in high elo finding her fun to play Caitlyn has an amazing kit, she has 2 or 3 animation cancelling it feels so good to use them. She's the kind of hypercarries that unless you're extremely fed needs to think more than rightclicking, needs to think about bushes traps E+Q combo ect.. the only boring thing in my opinion is her ult, holy fucking shit playing caitlyn most of the time feels like you don't have an ult i remember a game where i never used it for 30 min not only the range is so short unlike Sniper in dota2 but it's extremely telegraphed In dota2 sniper ult can't be blocked by allies, this is a bad don't get me wrong i hate the idea of no-counterplay point and click nuke But the fact that caitlyn's ult shows to the enemy that she is ultying makes the spell extremely unsatisfying

So is caitlyn overpowered right now?

https://i.gyazo.com/fc43e486df26e4818070e94bd55d7293.png

Right now caitlyn is not overpowered, but months ago before lethality was buffed she had 53% win rate and 30% pick rate and for reminder jinx had this for years before she was gutted Lethality made caitlyn falling because jhin varus and mf rised, but once it's going to fall down caitlyn is going to be overpowered again

At that time riot will nerf her, and my opinion is that if caitlyn becomes op, she needs to have a weak early game, remember when jinx was overpowered? she was strong from minute 0 to the end without a real weak time in the game Caitlyn is pretty much the same, her late game potential is not balanced by a weak early game, she's a lane bully and it needs to be fixed with multiple changes that shouldn't ruin her late game

And honestly i wouldn't mind that, her late game is what makes caitlyn fun like BigFat said it, nothing is interesting in bullying an enemy in early game with her with range with traps under tower<-----this is retarded, my personal experience is that putting traps in bushes in lane is fun and satisfying because they are TRAPS they should be put secretly and then if people run into them BOOM they're trapped and cuffed punished ,but putting them like this visibly to people just to zone them it's retarded in my opinion.

Something i would also like to talk about is caitlyn's VO, i love it so much that i don't think i'll stop playing the champion. It's been since Sona that i didn't find a satisfying VO with a weird english accent. I wonder if it's going to be changed in the future

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPSpCYiwwAU

Good cop on the street Bad cop in the sheets

25 Comments

Ralanr3 votes

Considering how powerful her laning phase is (which I didn't see you point out) I don't agree that she should set the standard for hypercarries.

Ahristocats3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Zk8OUu,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-11T13:58:40.039+0000)

Right now caitlyn is not overpowered, but months ago before lethality was buffed she had 53% win rate and 30% pick rate and for reminder jinx had this for years before she was gutted Lethality made caitlyn falling because jhin varus and mf rised, but once it&#039;s going to fall down caitlyn is going to be overpowered again

At that time riot will nerf her, and my opinion is that if caitlyn becomes op, she needs to have a weak early game, remember when jinx was overpowered? she was strong from minute 0 to the end without a real weak time in the game Caitlyn is pretty much the same, her late game potential is not balanced by a weak early game, she&#039;s a lane bully and it needs to be fixed with multiple changes that shouldn&#039;t ruin her late game

i don't like when people don't read my thread

All hypercarries had their moment where their laning phase was powerful, this isn't a problem with design this is a problem with numbers

Ralanr1 votes

I said I didn't see it. Clearly it means I am blind.

How dare you mock my disability!

Edit: I think it is a small problem in design with her trap and her Q harass.

Ahristocats6 votes

Q doesn't harass efficiently, it does reduced damage if it hits minions and it has a delay however it can be used too much time to shove the enemy under tower and then deny him with traps

her Q mana cost needs to be increased a bit just like twitch's W, and her traps should either have a duration under tower, or be triggered by minions (i prefer this one)

Ralanr1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Zk8OUu,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-11T16:04:16.636+0000)

Q doesn't harass efficiently, it does reduced damage if it hits minions and it has a delay however it can be used too much time to shove the enemy under tower and then deny him with traps

her Q mana cost needed to be increased a bit just like twitch's W, and her traps should either have a duration under tower, or be triggered by minions

Either of those would be wonderful, though I think the traps being hit by minions would be too much (I love it because I hate how she can place them willy nilly all over, using minion block like the black death used vermin) because it would force her to be more careful with her traps and potentially get those traps buffed because of it.

Why not just increase the duration of the buff that makes you immune to being trapped after you get caught?

Ahristocats5 votes

{quoted}

though I think the traps being hit by minions would be too much

i like the idea because it forces caitlyn to choose wisely where to put her traps instead of everywhere

{quoted} because it would force her to be more careful with her traps and potentially get those traps buffed because of it.

that's exactly the idea, BigFat told me to spam the traps because they cost 20 mana have decent cd, i prefer forcing caitlyn to be careful with traps rather than nerfing something else and honestly you wouldn't need to buff her traps as a compensation

would it remove a lot of early game power? yes BUT THIS IS THE IDEA caitlyn shouldn't be a lane bully

{quoted} Why not just increase the duration of the buff that makes you immune to being trapped after you get caught?

that would ruin her 1v1 potential against a bruiser and punishing caitlyn who managed to outplay a bruiser by setting traps in bushes ect... beside i don't see how it would fixe her laning phase

Ceapi1 votes

What if the buff immunity to trap would increase with level?So she still deals a lot of damage late game.

RexSaur2 votes

I thought you hated caitlyn

Ahristocats3 votes

i hate laning against caitlyn i like playing caitlyn

ForgiveColour2 votes

Good joke ahri doesnt need to be fed to kill you with w 3r and ignite

Ahristocats3 votes

3 R? that's enough time for me to kill her as cait then

if she's fed she's going to kill me with 1 R and 1 W

chipndip12 votes

On what planet does Ahri not need Q to kill you? It's literally impossible due to W's damage reduction on repeated targets.

Or rather, why did you feed Ahri to a Morello + Death Cap lead so that she could possibly do this?

Ahristocats4 votes

i'm not complaining about ahri she's a fair champ

IMO

chipndip11 votes

I know, but to imagine she'd kill someone in 1/3 Rs and some W fireballs is crazy.

Edit: Who the fuck downvoted me for saying that Ahri needs Q, HER MAIN BREAD AND BUTTER, to kill someone? What the fuck?

ForgiveColour1 votes

Yeah remind me next time when a cait can 1v1 ahri with morello

CzapLaaaaa2 votes

Make her traps get triggered by minions and i will not hate caitlyn anymore.

Grokmir2 votes

3 things.

  1. Ezreal still needs to land skillshots to do anything no matter how fed he is. I don't think anyone has been auto'd to death by an ezreal.

  2. With runaans, caits passive goes off every 3 autos if all bolts land. So in teamfights its almost never gonna be per 7 autos.

  3. Fuck early game champs that hypercarry lategame. idc that you agree with this point, it needs reiterated.

Also I agree she is pretty fun to play. But she's one of the few champs I would ban just so that I don't have to deal with how obnoxious she is in lane. Thank god I can just sit on her with jhin

Ahristocats2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Grokmir the bold,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Zk8OUu,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-03-11T17:10:44.299+0000)

3 things.

  1. Ezreal still needs to land skillshots to do anything no matter how fed he is. I don't think anyone has been auto'd to death by an ezreal.

yet i did

[{quoted}](name=Grokmir the bold,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Zk8OUu,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-03-11T17:10:44.299+0000) 2. With runaans, caits passive goes off every 3 autos if all bolts land. So in teamfights its almost never gonna be per 7 autos.

you don't always hit 3 targets in teamfight

[{quoted}](name=Grokmir the bold,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Zk8OUu,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-03-11T17:10:44.299+0000) 3. idc that you agree with this point,

lol ok

Grokmir1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07Zk8OUu,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-03-11T17:32:36.104+0000)

yet i did

you don't always hit 3 targets in teamfight

lol ok

You must have been afk or something to die to nothing but ezreal autos.

Yeah but you still almost never have to do the full 7 autos. I often can headshot about once per 1.5 seconds or so. Or more depending on my attack speed. Not counting traps or net.

And for the third thing I was agreeing with you with the point I made lol.

ForgiveColour2 votes

Funny how your third point can be used on any mages but theyre fine according to you

Yaśuo Main1 votes

caitlyn has back problems from those jugs

chipndip11 votes

Caitlyn? The standard for hyper-carries?

A champion that's moderately strong early, dips a bit in the mid game, and then SKY ROCKETS in power late-game...is the ideal for hyper-carries?

Caitlyn is the reason I think more marksmen need ammo mechanics more than anything.

Cait doesn't need to get fed to just right click you. She, just like any other hyper-carry, just needs time. Getting fed reduces that time, but when she's "online", you can basically surrender and move to the next one because she's going to ass-blast your whole team easy. She even has her own escape, with ranges at 650...like I don't get it...how is she the shining example of anything?

Ahristocats2 votes

{quoted}

Cait doesn't need to get fed to just right click you.

if she wants to kill you before you kill her, she needs her Q and traps

until late game at least

and even if she rightclicks, smart caitlyn playing around W and bushes are more rewarded

chipndip11 votes

You clearly didn't read the rest of that then. I said she needs time. Cait's power is based on her items and if she's doing well enough to either win before mid game matters or scrap it out until she just closes up the game during the late-game. Why is she strong early if her late game is around as good as Jinx's? If she does good early, she can just coast until the 30 minute mark and spend 5 minutes wrapping up the formalities for her win...which is easier to do on her than any other hyper-carry.

Hige1 votes

I don't think cait is OP by any means, she's a tad hard to deal with and she doesn't really have weak moments throughout the game, this for silver players is like a curse, because in order to win against cait you can't let her set up, think of it like Zyra, the more she remains in one place, the more dangerous she gets. This is why assassins and lethality users are awesome against her, she explodes before she can set up.

Her skills are strong but not as strong as to override her autos making lethality good on her but not optimal, you NEED crit in order to be relevant either way since as you said, cait has no steroids.

Her traps feel a bit overwhelming currently but only for silver/gold players who have a hard time focusing on several stuff at once, of course she can always cancel her animation and trap below your feet I guess but for silver/gold, very few people can do this, for plat/diamond and above I think that they are able to avoid almost everything Cait has so it isn't really a big deal.

When Jhin gets nerfed again, I don't think Cait will rise up so much, she will of course be considered more to fill the adc position but she'll be on par with the rest

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